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Old 03-14-2013, 11:37 PM   #121
freerule
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Originally Posted by magnus View Post
On Facebook, Tivo seems to suggest that it's not a technology issue but it was decided that 2 tuner support would not be allowed because it would diminish the DVR experience on the host box.
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Make sense. Especially if they have a 3+ tuner unit that supports OTA waiting in the wings. Right now the only non-cost related reason not to upgrade to a 4 tuner box is if you still want OTA. (or analog) Sounds like whatever box they have coming down the pipe will at least support OTA. (analog users are still SOL)
Hope that scenario isn't just another pipedream, but I'm not holding my breath expecting it!
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:05 AM   #122
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Heard of them but don't get them...
That explains it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:50 AM   #123
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Have you heard of a these little events known as LIVE SPORTS? Not quite the same when recorded
I find them even better when recorded. I can get a sandwich, skip commercials and useless commentary, and miss intermission times.

I understand some like to twitter during the games, but that is a relatively small group.

Sorry, I'll cease being off-topic now.

My personal guess, from viewing other pre-lauch behaviors from Tivo, is that we are indeed close to a new box that will allow me to use the mini and dump my THD and 2-tuner premiere. I would just need more than 2TB of storage, netflix access on the mini, and a good way to pull pytivo shares. Though, having to push using my tablet would not be a deal breaker..
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #124
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Please, anybody but Apple. I don't care if it's the Keebler elves, just not Apple. I would rather eat a bowl of rusty screws drenched in battery acid than put my hands on one of those cult iCrap devices.
^THIS x100

I will not buy anything Apple.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:47 AM   #125
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^THIS x100

I will not buy anything Apple.
There was a rumor about Apple buying TiVo a few years ago. IMO, that would have been a win-win situation. It would have given TiVo a great direction, and Apple could have integrated TiVo in their Apple TV box and in the upcoming Apple Television.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #126
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If Apple bought Tivo I would have to pray that an Android DVR came out.

I am also extremely disappointed by the Mini's limitation. I have a two tuner (I don't use OTA, but I like knowing I could) DVR simply because that is all I need. I wouldn't be willing to spend the money to upgrade, and the Mini is not reason enough. Right now I feed the signal from my box to my entire house. It works great, expecially with the Android app. Only down side, is we all watch the same thing. Not a problem I am willing to shell out $750+ to fix. $250 I could justify if it worked with my Premiere. That is about the max for me.

As for live sports. I love hockey, but I hate to watch live (or at least start it live). I usually start about halfway through the game, skip commercial and intermissions, and then catch up to live in the last few minutes when there tends to be less commercials. My solution with the mini would be to watch live sports on the TV that is connected to my Premiere. That is my preferred TV anyway.

You know what, I do watch NASCAR live, but that is so I can listen to in-car audio in real time. Always watch that on my good TV too, so a mini with no live TV still would be ideal for me.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:14 AM   #127
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That explains it.
I just find them incredibly dull and boring. I last about 5 minutes before I find myself doing other things. My roommates used to be able to predict when I would get up and leave the room when they watched football. I played just about every sport, but if I wasn't playing I didn't care what was going on.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:35 AM   #128
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^THIS x100

I will not buy anything Apple.
It's amazing to me how anytime the subject of "Apple" comes up, people feel the need to comment about how they hate Apple devices, they are iCrap, they won't buy them if you put a gun to their head, etc.... yet, you don't see all of the many people in the forum who do like Apple products crapping all over Google and Android.

You people need to get a grip. Be happy that you have an alternative to "iCrap".
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #129
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It's amazing to me how anytime the subject of "Apple" comes up, people feel the need to comment about how they hate Apple devices, they are iCrap, they won't buy them if you put a gun to their head, etc.... yet, you don't see all of the many people in the forum who do like Apple products crapping all over Google and Android.

You people need to get a grip. Be happy that you have an alternative to "iCrap".
I like them both for different reasons.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:34 PM   #130
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There was a rumor about Apple buying TiVo a few years ago. IMO, that would have been a win-win situation. It would have given TiVo a great direction, and Apple could have integrated TiVo in their Apple TV box and in the upcoming Apple Television.
Steve Jobs thought TiVo, Roku and Google TV were all destined to fail, so Apple would never have bought TiVo while he was running the company. Don't know what Apple would do now, but I don't see them buying TiVo or even working with them.

Steve was right about Google TV.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:45 PM   #131
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Apple appeals to a completely different segment then TiVo. There may be some overlap, but by and large they are very different groups and I don't think they would fit well together.

Plus Apple is HUGE. If they wanted to make a DVR they would just make one. They wouldn't buy TiVo.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:05 PM   #132
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Steve Jobs thought TiVo, Roku and Google TV were all destined to fail
Steve Jobs also said that Apple would never make an iPod that played video or a mobile phone. They started making both a few years after each statement. He also said a 7 inch tablet was a bad idea. The iPad mini had to be in development while he was still around.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:52 PM   #133
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Sports are an event. They lose their value after about 5 minutes, if that. Basketball is the one time that I have live TV on, and don't touch the remotes for 2 hours.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:00 AM   #134
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There was a rumor about Apple buying TiVo a few years ago. IMO, that would have been a win-win situation. It would have given TiVo a great direction, and Apple could have integrated TiVo in their Apple TV box and in the upcoming Apple Television.
You think Apple would have any interest in maintaining a retail DVR? If they purchased TiVo it would have been for the patent portfolio, not to compete with the cable co's for this slim market.

Same thing when Google purchased Motorola. Patent portfolio only, closed or sold everything else...

TiVo direction would have been to abandon the market...
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:46 AM   #135
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I have a less than 3 year old Premiere XL with Product Lifetime Service, would have loved to use a mini to playback recorded shows on a bedroom TV; the lack of Live remote TV would not be important. But Tivo has decided to limit the mini so I can't use it with my 2 tuner Premiere. I'd have to buy a new box and abandon my investment in both my hardware and the expensive PLS I purchased.

Not nice, Tivo, not nice. As best I can tell there is no technical reason for this limitation. A mini should work fine with a two tuner Premiere, just without the option of Live TV, if only Tivo would allow it.

If Tivo treats it's existing customer base with disdain, they may find that existing customers abandon Tivo, and stop recommending Tivo to friends and family.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #136
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You know you could probably sell the TiVo you have for $400-$500. The one thing about PLS is that it retains nearly 100% of it's value, even over long periods of time.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:55 AM   #137
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Not nice, Tivo, not nice. As best I can tell there is no technical reason for this limitation. A mini should work fine with a two tuner Premiere, just without the option of Live TV, if only Tivo would allow it.
Nope, there is no technical reason for it. Tivo says that it's all about the user experience on the 2 tuner Premiere. They say that they did not want to diminish the experience of the person that is in front of the 2 tuner when a person using the Mini wants to watch live TV.

Only thing you can do is hope for a 4+ tuner Premiere with OTA in the future and hope the price of your 2 tuner Premiere with lifetime does not diminish in value when that time comes.

Or in a very remote chance... Hope that Tivo creates a Roku or Apple TV app that works in conjunction with the Tivo Stream. But that means you'll still need to purchase some equipment from Tivo and Roku/Apple.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #138
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You know you could probably sell the TiVo you have for $400-$500. The one thing about PLS is that it retains nearly 100% of it's value, even over long periods of time.
Sold mine for $525 when I got my Mini. Plus one less CableCard fee!
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:22 PM   #139
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A little off topic, but how much can I get for a TiVo HD with lifetime?
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:50 PM   #140
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A little off topic, but how much can I get for a TiVo HD with lifetime?
Check ebay completed listings. Probably $300-$400 depending on the drive
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #141
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Thanks that is what I thought. I just wanted a sanity check from the pros here!
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:21 PM   #142
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I agreed with your post up until the last paragraph. I have seen no evidence that Tivo makes particularly wise business decisions. In fact, they have been on the precipice of collapse for a decade as a result of their previous business decisions.

Successful ligitagion outcomes are currently keeping them afloat.
You are not privy to all of the data, so you really can't judge their decisions. I have been on the other side for 20+ years and have never made a dumb decision. I have made a lot of unpopular decisions and made decisions that, in hindsight, when we had more data turned out to not be the best path. But in product development you are stuck making decisions based on the best available data at the time.

They have to make decisions based on what is best for the company, that is not always what is best for the customer.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:44 PM   #143
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You are not privy to all of the data, so you really can't judge their decisions.
I don't need to know their internal data to know that they consistently lose money year after year. Yes, they're making super business decisions.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #144
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I don't need to know their internal data to know that they consistently lose money year after year. Yes, they're making super business decisions.
Actually, that's not really true. Here is a snapshot of their Earnings Per Share going back to 2007. They are slightly positive on EPS over that period thanks mostly to the $1 Billion in litigation settlements from Dish, AT&T, and Verizon. They continue to spend significant dollars on litigation which masks that their core advanced television business is in the midst of a significant turn-around. It will become evident in Calendar Year 2014 when they turn EPS positive again. These numbers assume zero new deals and zero settlements and/or trial proceeds from Motorola, Time Warner, or Cisco.


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Old 03-16-2013, 11:27 PM   #145
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Actually, that's not really true. Here is a snapshot of their Earnings Per Share going back to 2007. They are slightly positive on EPS over that period thanks mostly to the $1 Billion in litigation settlements from Dish, AT&T, and Verizon.
Isn't that the essence of one of my previous posts? "Successful ligitagion outcomes are currently keeping them afloat."

But for their litigation settlements, Tivo would be consistently losing money on their core business. I don't understand the constant deification of Tivo executives on TCF.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #146
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Only thing you can do is hope for a 4+ tuner Premiere with OTA in the future and hope the price of your 2 tuner Premiere with lifetime does not diminish in value when that time comes.
With the mini finally being released, I think at this point its safe to say that Tivo has more or less abandoned OTA use & will NOT have the OTA option on any future TiVO boxes. Instead, I'm thinking they will come out with a digital cable only, 6-tuner box that will also work with these minis. Its unfortunate, but chances are pretty good that it will be true.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:59 AM   #147
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It's amazing to me how anytime the subject of "Apple" comes up, people feel the need to comment about how they hate Apple devices, they are iCrap, they won't buy them if you put a gun to their head, etc.... yet, you don't see all of the many people in the forum who do like Apple products crapping all over Google and Android.
There are always some people who cannot like what they have unless they put down what they don't. It's kind of fascinating in a way but also rather annoying. Android and iOS are just two different approaches to the same thing and choice is a good. It doesn't make sense to get so angry over a piece of electronics.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:03 AM   #148
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With the mini finally being released, I think at this point its safe to say that Tivo has more or less abandoned OTA use & will NOT have the OTA option on any future TiVO boxes. Instead, I'm thinking they will come out with a digital cable only, 6-tuner box that will also work with these minis. Its unfortunate, but chances are pretty good that it will be true.
We know from their recent FCC filings that they do intend to have OTA on a future box though.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:27 AM   #149
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With the mini finally being released, I think at this point its safe to say that Tivo has more or less abandoned OTA use & will NOT have the OTA option on any future TiVO boxes. Instead, I'm thinking they will come out with a digital cable only, 6-tuner box that will also work with these minis. Its unfortunate, but chances are pretty good that it will be true.
I really hope that you are as wrong as you can be.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #150
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With the mini finally being released, I think at this point its safe to say that Tivo has more or less abandoned OTA use & will NOT have the OTA option on any future TiVO boxes. Instead, I'm thinking they will come out with a digital cable only, 6-tuner box that will also work with these minis. Its unfortunate, but chances are pretty good that it will be true.
As someone who cut the cord almost 2 years ago and is OTA only, I can only hope you are wrong.
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