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Old 03-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #91
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Actually, I thought that episode was great. The tension was awesome between both groups!.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:10 AM   #92
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I'm sure I'll get crucified for this (again), but can't we just have a separate thread for Talking Dead -- not each week, but perhaps an ongoing TD thread for each season? I think that would clear up a lot of what's been discussed here. That would help narrow down the type of spoilers posted in episode threads...
No. I don't watch TD, but I don't mind the contributions made by those that do. How is talking about TD any different than when someone adds something outside of the thread from an article talking about the show?
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:16 AM   #93
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No. I don't watch TD, but I don't mind the contributions made by those that do. How is talking about TD any different than when someone adds something outside of the thread from an article talking about the show?
Anything from outside of the actual episode is a spoiler per the forum rules and should not be posted in the episode thread without spoiler tags.

I feel like we've already hashed this out and came to a middle ground of keeping The Talking Dead discussion in here, but spoiler tagging it. Anyone who opens a spoiler tag is doing so at their own risk.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:30 AM   #94
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I feel like we've already hashed this out and came to a middle ground of keeping The Talking Dead discussion in here, but spoiler tagging it. Anyone who opens a spoiler tag is doing so at their own risk.
This.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #95
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Actually, I thought that episode was great. The tension was awesome between both groups!.
Totally agree with this. Last two eps have been ep(ic)...
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:45 PM   #96
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Anything from outside of the actual episode is a spoiler per the forum rules and should not be posted in the episode thread without spoiler tags.

I feel like we've already hashed this out and came to a middle ground of keeping The Talking Dead discussion in here, but spoiler tagging it. Anyone who opens a spoiler tag is doing so at their own risk.
^Consider this forum policy for these threads.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:29 PM   #97
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Doesn't TD have actors, writers and directors from WD on it? If so, I doubt they are really "guessing and talking like us".
Sometimes, the actors from the show come on later in the show, after the other guests have been discussing their reactions and thoughts.

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Anything from outside of the actual episode is a spoiler per the forum rules and should not be posted in the episode thread without spoiler tags.

I feel like we've already hashed this out and came to a middle ground of keeping The Talking Dead discussion in here, but spoiler tagging it. Anyone who opens a spoiler tag is doing so at their own risk.
Yesterday someone questioned why I put spoiler tags around my TD comments even though my comments were not spoilers.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:42 PM   #98
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Sometimes, the actors from the show come on later in the show, after the other guests have been discussing their reactions and thoughts.
And the actors/producers are so paranoid about revealing spoilers, they're actually less informative than the regular celebrity guests.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:54 PM   #99
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Totally agree with this. Last two eps have been ep(ic)...
Definitely. They have a lot of dialog but it is not as pointless and "filler-ish" as it was last season, IMO.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #100
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Definitely. They have a lot of dialog but it is not as pointless and "filler-ish" as it was last season, IMO.
Totally agree. There wasn't a lot of "action", but I was still glued to the TV.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:24 AM   #101
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May I provide a counter point to the Rick's team leaving the prison?

It has decent fortifications. And those fortifications can be improved. In order to get into the prison the Governor's team (arguably) has to cross a significant amount of open space.

While numerically inferior Rick's team has significant zombie/human killing experience and presumably won't crack under fire.

Alternatively, the Governor does have some pretty decent people on his side - but how good are teenage boys and arthritic women (hyperbole, I concede). That is where the bulk of his people are. If you take the position he won't include them in an attack then I think there is far more parity.

Why presume an assault on the prison succeeds rather than breaking down? And what do you then do, shoot the people who run away? How long will the Governor's little town survive?

The other thing which we can take into account is the internal struggles that Andrea and Milton are having - how will that impact taking down the prison?

I would suggest the idea of running, while tempting, is fraught with more risks. Who knows who or what you run into next - or where you breakdown?

Stay and fight. I think it is worth it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:23 AM   #102
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May I provide a counter point to the Rick's team leaving the prison?

It has decent fortifications. And those fortifications can be improved. In order to get into the prison the Governor's team (arguably) has to cross a significant amount of open space.

While numerically inferior Rick's team has significant zombie/human killing experience and presumably won't crack under fire.

Alternatively, the Governor does have some pretty decent people on his side - but how good are teenage boys and arthritic women (hyperbole, I concede). That is where the bulk of his people are. If you take the position he won't include them in an attack then I think there is far more parity.

Why presume an assault on the prison succeeds rather than breaking down? And what do you then do, shoot the people who run away? How long will the Governor's little town survive?

The other thing which we can take into account is the internal struggles that Andrea and Milton are having - how will that impact taking down the prison?

I would suggest the idea of running, while tempting, is fraught with more risks. Who knows who or what you run into next - or where you breakdown?

Stay and fight. I think it is worth it.
Some valid points but a couple things I would point out:

What is life going to be like at the prison when you are on constant alert for your life? You can't be outside or attempt to grow crops because you could be "sniped" at any moment.

They have said they are pretty much out of supplies and food so they are going to have to leave the safety of the prison anyways.

The "Governor" threat is not going to go away even if they did win a fight at the prison. The townspeople can always come back or they will run into them somewhere on a supply run at some point.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:37 AM   #103
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Some valid points but a couple things I would point out:

What is life going to be like at the prison when you are on constant alert for your life? You can't be outside or attempt to grow crops because you could be "sniped" at any moment.

They have said they are pretty much out of supplies and food so they are going to have to leave the safety of the prison anyways.

The "Governor" threat is not going to go away even if they did win a fight at the prison. The townspeople can always come back or they will run into them somewhere on a supply run at some point.
I appreciate the response - here would be my follow up thoughts. And I must premise them on the idea that I envisioned the conflict ending within a short period of time. Your points consider a protracted struggle something I hadn't contemplated. Admittedly, that would be a bleak outcome.

On the other hand, I am not sure that the Governor has either the temperament or the ability to wage a protracted struggle. But then again, how many snipers do you need?

Your point about supplies, even if I was correct in thinking things would be over and done with in a short period of time is very fair. Prison walls and fences do work both ways.

Why would you think the Governor threat wouldn't go away if a battle at the prison was won? I envisioned him being killed in that battle - I am not sure the townspeople would have any interest/stomach for a continued contest against the prison. Andrea who is portrayed as influential could help in dissuading the townspeople from further conflict.

Of course, my scenario only presents the rosiest picture for the prison: a quick decisive end where the Governor is either killed or the results of the battle are so bad that he is deposed by his own people and the survivors are favorably disposed towards the people at the prison.

Rick's crew did shoot up Woodbury once before. I would suggest they need to do so again but with only one target.

I guess I ultimately come down to The Walking Dead is a very Hobbesian world. I like the idea of the protection of the prison. There will always be a chance to run into another Governor somewhere along the way, at least the prison is defensible from the Dead and if the issue of the Governor is resolved there is a chance for some semblance of a life which would be better than wondering when your car is going to run out of gas of the building you walk into is infested with the Dead.

I may just be involved in a case of wishful thinking however on all counts.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:17 AM   #104
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How many people are our Heros going to lose before they get the governor? Will it be worth it? I would argue the risk is too high.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:33 AM   #105
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How many people are our Heros going to lose before they get the governor? Will it be worth it? I would argue the risk is too high.
The Guv is easily gettable, if they decide that's what they want to do.

They just don't seem to be able to make, and commit to, that decision.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:04 PM   #106
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The Guv is easily gettable, if they decide that's what they want to do.

They just don't seem to be able to make, and commit to, that decision.
They don't have the luxury that we do of knowing the Governor is the only one keeping that town together. I don't see any indications of anything they would know that would show killing only the Governor would be the solution.


Besides...why would you want to have a human war when you also have a zombie war going on.

I'd take my toys and move on!

I would understand more if our heros had a setup like they do in town....but they really wouldn't be leaving much in the prison.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:22 PM   #107
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I would understand more if our heros had a setup like they do in town....but they really wouldn't be leaving much in the prison.
I agree. Town is worth defending, the prison is not worth defending.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:19 AM   #108
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I agree. Town is worth defending, the prison is not worth defending.
I am curious as to why you think that is the case?
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:38 AM   #109
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A prison is a far better place to be during the ZA than a town. Prisons are made to be self-sufficient (they have their own generators) and have pre-built guard towers and many levels of security (perimiter fence, interior fence, exterior doors, cell block doors, cell doors. Towns have none of these things. Both have beds and toilets and a roof to keep you dry. During the ZA you don't need more than that. Both will have the same food supply issues.

I'd stay with the prison in a heartbeat.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:40 AM   #110
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A prison is a far better place to be during the ZA than a town. Prisons are made to be self-sufficient (they have their own generators) and have pre-built guard towers and many levels of security (perimiter fence, interior fence, exterior doors, cell block doors, cell doors. Towns have none of these things. Both have beds and toilets and a roof to keep you dry. During the ZA you don't need more than that. Both will have the same food supply issues.

I'd stay with the prison in a heartbeat.
I agree, I think, but at the same time I could envision a scenario where both get overrun. In the prison scenario, you lock yourself safe inside your cell while the zombies overrun the cell block. In the town, you barricade yourself inside a house. In which scenario would you rather be? I'd take the house, hands down. "Safe" in a cell would be a terrible way to go. At least there's a chance you can escape the house and town. The prison may be good on the front end, but if things go pear-shaped there's not really a good exit strategy because the prison is a trap by design.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:05 AM   #111
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I agree, I think, but at the same time I could envision a scenario where both get overrun. In the prison scenario, you lock yourself safe inside your cell while the zombies overrun the cell block. In the town, you barricade yourself inside a house. In which scenario would you rather be? I'd take the house, hands down. "Safe" in a cell would be a terrible way to go. At least there's a chance you can escape the house and town.
I agree. If the prison were overrun, the last place I'd barracade myself would be a cell. The cell is better for the scenario where (1) you have a human stranger that comes and you don't trust them yet, or (2) one of your own is bit and you amputate and you're not sure they'll turn, so you lock them up. No... I'd find a place with an escape avenue just as I would in the town.

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The prison may be good on the front end, but if things go pear-shaped there's not really a good exit strategy because the prison is a trap by design.
But if you occupy a town (like Woodbury) then you're essentially turning it into a prison. Except it's only a half-assed prison with cars and buses as walls instead of real walls. Nope... I'd still take the prison.

By the way, in either scenario (town or prison) I'd spend some time digging an escape tunnel. I don't think it'd be that hard, and it would be easy to disguise so zombies wouldn't find it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #112
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But if you occupy a town (like Woodbury) then you're essentially turning it into a prison. Except it's only a half-assed prison with cars and buses as walls instead of real walls. Nope... I'd still take the prison.
Except that the part of the prison that equates to the wall of cars and buses is just chain link fence. I think I'd prefer the makeshift wall. With the chain link, the zombies can see through it and know there's something they want on the other side. With the wall, they have no reason to think there's anything for them on the other side of the wall.

The concrete buildings are obviously better than regular stick-framed houses, but if the zombies never get through the wall, the town is actually better.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:46 PM   #113
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I wonder if they put up some boards or something against the fence on the inside so the zombies can't see in, if they would go away. They would have to keep the noise down too.

Also there are small towns all over the place that could be walled up with a little effort. Finding another prison that size would be harder. It's not like they could Google it. So that makes the prison more valuable. If they prefer a town, I'd just take off and go somewhere far from the Gov.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #114
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....Also there are small towns all over the place that could be walled up with a little effort.....
Seriously?!
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:15 PM   #115
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Anything from outside of the actual episode is a spoiler per the forum rules and should not be posted in the episode thread without spoiler tags.

I feel like we've already hashed this out and came to a middle ground of keeping The Talking Dead discussion in here, but spoiler tagging it. Anyone who opens a spoiler tag is doing so at their own risk.

Umm, excuse me? I live in Canada. Should I have put that in spoiler tags? Any information that is directly or indirectly relevant to what has not already happened on the show (plot elements, casting news) I can understand, but if someone wants to say that Lauren Cohan is hot that is not spoiler (by the way, you don't need to watch TD to know that); and the fact that half the cast appears to be British is also, in no way, spoiler.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:47 PM   #116
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They don't have the luxury that we do of knowing the Governor is the only one keeping that town together. I don't see any indications of anything they would know that would show killing only the Governor would be the solution.


Besides...why would you want to have a human war when you also have a zombie war going on.

I'd take my toys and move on!

I would understand more if our heros had a setup like they do in town....but they really wouldn't be leaving much in the prison.

Merle knows it, and he's told them what needs to be done. Andrea and Rick both had a chance to end it quickly, but the writers stopped them because this isn't a BBC show with 6-7 episodes in a series.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:32 PM   #117
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Seriously?!
Ok, a lot of effort.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:54 PM   #118
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Ok, a lot of effort.
THERE ya go.....
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #119
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I think the prison would be easier to defend so I'd stay. They could stay within the prison and shoot from the windows. If the Gov penetrated the outside walls, they could set up ambush and choke points and just fall further back in the prison if need be. They also know the layout which the Gov has no knowledge of. A lot of the Gov's people would end up as cannon fodder.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:08 PM   #120
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They also know the layout which the Gov has no knowledge of.
Not "no knowledge". The people that Rick kicked out of the prison apparently told the Gov what they know.
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