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View Poll Results: Do you plan to buy a TiVo Mini at launch?
Yes - I plan to buy one Mini 53 32.52%
Yes - I plan to buy two or more 13 7.98%
Maybe, but I will not be an early adopter 47 28.83%
No, I have no plans for a Mini 41 25.15%
Undecided 9 5.52%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #91
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Is the BCM7425 the companion chip?

It is the chip that is supposed to be in the Pace six tuner box and is also in the the Dish Hopper.

Although I see it only has dual transcoding capabilities. Can't the TiVo Stream transcode four concurrent streams?
From a performance perspective.. the CPU in the Premiere should be able to run the HDUI with great speed. I question the coding and suspect it may get faster as they improve it
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:04 AM   #92
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Criticism of TiVo is welcome here, and in fact it's common. But most critics are hoping to prod TiVo into making good products better. If someone sees no good in TiVo's products and comes here only to bash them, it's natural to question their motives for hanging out here at all. That would be troll-like behavior.
Or accuse them of stealing money by charging a fee, which is ridiculous. That's trolling.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:23 AM   #93
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From a performance perspective.. the CPU in the Premiere should be able to run the HDUI with great speed. I question the coding and suspect it may get faster as they improve it
The current chip in the Premiere doesn't even support the recommended minimum requirements of Air.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #94
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I for one am not critical of the Mini as a piece of technology, I'm critical of the need & justification for a subscription. For my part I planned to buy one to use outside in the pool gazebo for the summer months where the environment is too extreme to use my 2-tuner Premiere and it would be stored along with that TV for the other 6 months making a year-round subscription financially unattractive.

If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:39 AM   #95
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I for one am not critical of the Mini as a piece of technology, I'm critical of the need & justification for a subscription. For my part I planned to buy one to use outside in the pool gazebo for the summer months where the environment is too extreme to use my 2-tuner Premiere and it would be stored along with that TV for the other 6 months making a year-round subscription financially unattractive.

If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
Just pay for liftime and only pay $250. Then if you decide later you want something else, you can still sell it and recoup most of the cost.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:44 AM   #96
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The current chip in the Premiere doesn't even support the recommended minimum requirements of Air.
That plus the development program documented fact that only 50% of CPU resources are reserved for Flash Air in the first place (keeping enough resources to ensure recordings don't have problems).
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #97
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I for one am not critical of the Mini as a piece of technology, I'm critical of the need & justification for a subscription. For my part I planned to buy one to use outside in the pool gazebo for the summer months where the environment is too extreme to use my 2-tuner Premiere and it would be stored along with that TV for the other 6 months making a year-round subscription financially unattractive.

If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
I honestly can not see how anyone would think paying $100 plus $6/mo is better than just paying $250 up front. Keep life simple, if you can not justify paying $250 for a Mini don't buy one.

How TiVo gets to that number (by adding a Subscription fee to hardware costs versus just saying $250 is the price) is really irrelevant. Some who follow TiVo's stock expect the reason they are doing it that way is because of how they will show subscriber numbers in their quarterly reports, which again is irrelevant to customers.

As I have said in other posts I am not defending the $250 as being a good price. It is what it is and each person will have to decide if what they get with a Mini is worth the cost or not. The one thing I will say is that pretty much all of us want the stuff we buy to be better and cheaper than it actually is so no surprise on my part that some (many/all?) people would like the Mini's price to be less.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:40 PM   #98
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I for one am not critical of the Mini as a piece of technology, I'm critical of the need & justification for a subscription. For my part I planned to buy one to use outside in the pool gazebo for the summer months where the environment is too extreme to use my 2-tuner Premiere and it would be stored along with that TV for the other 6 months making a year-round subscription financially unattractive.

If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
I see it from a different perspective. I think it makes sense that they charge money for the box and a subscription from a business aspect. Take me for example. I have one TiVo Preimere 4. Because of the monthly/lifetime cost I was hesitant to buy another TiVo to put in my bedroom but then the Mini came out. I am going to save a lot of money buying a Mini with lifetime subscription. The subscription fee is now $5.99 instead of $10 something with the multi service discount. I also do not have to pay an extra outlet fee or rent a box from Comcast anymore. In the long run this will be cheaper than having no version TiVo in my bedroom.

In some ways releasing the Mini is more risky to TiVo. People will be buying lifetime subscriptions on the Mini (meaning no additional income for TiVo after a few years) or else they'll pay the monthly subscription which is less expensive than a Premiere subscription. Granted, this may push people to get that second box which may make up for less multi-Premiere households. Overall, I think TiVo is now more competitive as a whole-home DVR solution compared to cable providers or other technology.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #99
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If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
They do, it's $250 that way. The monthly subscription option is just a way to offer a lower cost of entry. Kind of like how you can get an XBox for $100 as long as you commit to 2 years of XBox Live. Or how you can get a $800 iPhone for $200 if you commit to 2 years of cell service. Except that with the TiVo Mini the commitment period is only a year.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #100
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They do, it's $250 that way. The monthly subscription option is just a way to offer a lower cost of entry. Kind of like how you can get an XBox for $100 as long as you commit to 2 years of XBox Live. Or how you can get a $800 iPhone for $200 if you commit to 2 years of cell service. Except that with the TiVo Mini the commitment period is only a year.
Another thing about the price is the retail mark up, any retail outlet would make more gross on selling a $250 item than a $99 item so TiVo only pays the mark up on $99 and keeps the full $150 sub money or the $5.99/month.
I don't know of any other business plan like TiVo, even the cell phone co. do not offer lifetime service on a new phone, maybe other can think of other business models that offers the customer the choice to purchase the hardware and have a choice of Lifetime use or monthly service, Slingbox has only a full upfront cost and "free service" for the life of the box, Windows media center has the same full upfront cost (in many cases it is $0) and Lifetime service for free. MSO only rent their equipment as far as I know. (I know that you can purchase some small accessories from them like cable amps etc.)
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #101
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Criticism of TiVo is welcome here, and in fact it's common. But most critics are hoping to prod TiVo into making good products better. If someone sees no good in TiVo's products and comes here only to bash them, it's natural to question their motives for hanging out here at all. That would be troll-like behavior.

No i belong to alot of other forums, and this usually is the most close minded of them all. Surprise price is a something might make this product better. I guess that wasn't obvious enough . Really this forum should be called orthodox tivo users only. On 2 other boards i go to people couldn't understand or advocate the monthly fee. Continue with your worship.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #102
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Another thing about the price is the retail mark up, any retail outlet would make more gross on selling a $250 item than a $99 item so TiVo only pays the mark up on $99 and keeps the full $150 sub money or the $5.99/month.
I don't know of any other business plan like TiVo, even the cell phone co. do not offer lifetime service on a new phone, maybe other can think of other business models that offers the customer the choice to purchase the hardware and have a choice of Lifetime use or monthly service, Slingbox has only a full upfront cost and "free service" for the life of the box, Windows media center has the same full upfront cost (in many cases it is $0) and Lifetime service for free. MSO only rent their equipment as far as I know. (I know that you can purchase some small accessories from them like cable amps etc.)
Cell phone is a bad comparison , because you can move to another provider and it still works. You can move an ATT phone to Tmobile. Tivo doesnt offer lifetime service on tivo units, if it breaks its your problem. Cell phone companies usually maintain the cell phone thru a contact. There is no contact with tivo. Tivo provides nothing, there are using your power, your network. If they changed the wording from Subscribe to Rent, and Purchase, that would make sense, but they arent. So hence many are asking questions.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #103
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It's not worship it's logical understanding!

TiVo Mini != Roku no matter how similar they are from a hardware perspective. The companies have different business models and the boxes have different functionality. Some people here believe that the singular ability to stream recordings from your primary TiVo to another room is worth the $250. You obviously do not, and that's fine. But calling it "stealing" is ignorant. It's capitalism. They can choose to charge whatever they want and we can choose to buy or not. If sales don't meet expectations then TiVo will likely drop the price to compensate. That's how the free market works.

I'm sure we would all love it if the Mini was $50 with no fee. But it is what it is and the only vote you get is with your wallet.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:33 PM   #104
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Cell phone is a bad comparison , because you can move to another provider and it still works. You can move an ATT phone to Tmobile. Tivo doesnt offer lifetime service on tivo units, if it breaks its your problem. Cell phone companies usually maintain the cell phone thru a contact. There is no contact with tivo. Tivo provides nothing, there are using your power, your network. If they changed the wording from Subscribe to Rent, and Purchase, that would make sense, but they arent. So hence many are asking questions.
Well that's not true! Most cell phones are carrier locked. And most carries wont unlock them until you complete the original commitment period or pay a hefty early termination fee. In addition some carriers use different technologies which make it impossible to switch service providers. (i.e. can't use an AT&T iPhone with Sprint even if it's unlocked)

Also cell phones have standard warranties just like all electronics. 90 days full, 1 year parts. Cell providers will sell you a maintenance plan for a monthly fee, but it's not part of the deal. TiVo will do the same thing. For $30 they'll sell you a 3 year warranty that includes transfer of the lifetime service to a replacement unit. In fact they take it one step further and will actually honor in store warranties. So if you buy a warranty from Best Buy and they replace a TiVo/Mini under that warranty TiVo will transfer your lifetime service to the new box. That is completely above and beyond on their part.

See this post seems to shift your opinion from displeasure of the price of the Mini to a general disdain for TiVo as a company. If you don't like the TiVo business model then don't buy into it. You have other options. (i.e. HTPC or provider supplied DVR)
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:13 AM   #105
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No i belong to alot of other forums, and this usually is the most close minded of them all. Surprise price is a something might make this product better. I guess that wasn't obvious enough . Really this forum should be called orthodox tivo users only. On 2 other boards i go to people couldn't understand or advocate the monthly fee. Continue with your worship.
This forum has many folks that are happy Tivo users but want them to do better (and regularly post here about the issues), it's not just fanboys. Once you look past that minority you'll see that. There's also plenty here that are not happy with Tivo and regularly vent about it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #106
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Staining my memory but I believe the chip in the Mini is a companion chip to another chip that would be the new chip in an updated DVR. So I don't expect we will see a DVR with the same chip that is in the Mini. But it shouldn't take much to improve on the Premiere, after all that chip in the Premiere is over 3 years old, anything developed in the last year should be a significant upgrade.

The BCM7418 is what is in a Mini forgot what others have posted would be in a new DVR.
Is the chip capable of 1080P60 output. I just setup my Mini and I see for the resolution choices it still shows 1080P24 pass through. So is this just shown to keep it inline with what the Premiere can do for 1080P output?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:36 PM   #107
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Is the chip capable of 1080P60 output. I just setup my Mini and I see for the resolution choices it still shows 1080P24 pass through. So is this just shown to keep it inline with what the Premiere can do for 1080P output?
Good question. I don't think I've ever heard it addressed.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #108
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Does anyone even use 1080p/60? I know some shows are shot at 1080p/60 these days, but AFAIK they're not actually broadcast anywhere at that combo. BluRay and all the online services are 1080p/24 max
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:27 PM   #109
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Does anyone even use 1080p/60? I know some shows are shot at 1080p/60 these days, but AFAIK they're not actually broadcast anywhere at that combo. BluRay and all the online services are 1080p/24 max
I don't mean actual content in 1080P60, but to output it at 1080P60 like most devices do. If the TiVo can scale content to 1080P60 like other devices, then there might be less issues with resolutions changes in Netflix. Depending on what choices are selected for the output resolution.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:40 PM   #110
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But why would you want your 1080p/24 content converted to 60fps? It's not an even multiple which means the frame rate conversion will either have to use interpolation or a 2:3 pulldown type pattern. Neither one is really desirable.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:51 PM   #111
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But why would you want your 1080p/24 content converted to 60fps? It's not an even multiple which means the frame rate conversion will either have to use interpolation or a 2:3 pulldown type pattern. Neither one is really desirable.
I typically use 24P but only because of my external scaler. I use two DLP sets and a 60 Hz LCD so either my scaler applies 3:2 pulldown, the TV, or the device. But I'll take the DLP over a 120, 240, or 480 LCD since the DLP is still a couple of orders of magnitude faster than an LCD. I don't have a problem with judder since I've lived with it for decades already
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:41 AM   #112
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24 is best used for film based sources (movies) and 60 is best for video based (TV).

Edit: but of course a lot of TV is now filmed at 24Hz as well.

Last edited by HarperVision : 03-15-2013 at 03:43 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:18 AM   #113
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I've been wanting to buy a "Tivo Mini" for years now. All I want is something small, quiet and relatively unobtrusive, with the great TiVo interface, and access to all my recordings. This is a perfect fit for what we're looking for.

- I haven't had much of a gadget budget for a few years since having kids, but I'll make the exception for this.
- I can no longer afford to be an early adopter, but I'll make the exception for this.
- $250 does seem excessive, but I'll bite.

However I only have a two-tuner Premier :-( I'll even pay that excessive cost as an early adopter (taking food out of the mouths of my babies ;-) ) for recordings only, if I can't have streaming (who watches live TV?). .... Bummer.

Hopefully TiVo will change their position when they release the dynamic tuner allocation feature.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:39 AM   #114
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I for one am not critical of the Mini as a piece of technology, I'm critical of the need & justification for a subscription. For my part I planned to buy one to use outside in the pool gazebo for the summer months where the environment is too extreme to use my 2-tuner Premiere and it would be stored along with that TV for the other 6 months making a year-round subscription financially unattractive.

If you say they can't sell it at a profit for $100 then fine, offer it for what they can make a profit at. As it is if I keep it for 5 years it will cost me $400, a bit much for a part-time unit
Or as others said, you can break out a calculator and realize that you pay the "one time" $250 for the unit + lifetime and then use it in various places around the house when you like. If you ever want to retire the unit, you will probably get $150-$200 for it used with lifetime service so your actual "out of pocket" cost over the span of a few years will be pretty minimal.
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