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Old 03-13-2013, 01:55 PM   #61
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I use my XL4 as a bridge for all of the devices in my entertainment center by connecting a switch to it's Ethernet port. I have 3 game systems, two additional TiVos, my Smart TV, my Ooma and a wifi access point connected to a switch, which then connects to the XL4s Ethernet port, which then bridges over MoCa to my office where I have a MoCa adapter connected to another switch which then connects to my router.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by leiff View Post
I have a setup question here:
I have a mini/ moca adapter on route from TiVo to be delivered this week. My xl4 is in my main tv room which also has my popbox movie player. Both these devices require wired speeds, so I plan on using moca for xl4 and Ethernet bridge out of xl4 for my popbox. My office room where my router is, is where I'll be placing mini. Since mini is right next to both coax/ Ethernet ports does it matter which I use for mini?
If your Mini is right there next to a free ethernet port then you might as well use that if it's not needed for anything else.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:43 PM   #63
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Great! Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully this brings up the PHY value.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:26 PM   #64
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Success!

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Great! Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully this brings up the PHY value.
Took the Actiontec adapter out of the equation and everything work likes a charm now. Now to just hook the Stream straight back to the router and everything will be good to go. It would have been nice for the Mini to act as a Moca Bridge as well so you could use the Mini and Stream in conjunction with each other (just a thought). Now what to do with this now useless Actiontec adapter? Thanks again for the help.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:01 PM   #65
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The pasthrough port on most TA is terrible and degrades the signal to the point where the TiVo has trouble tuning some channels let alone talking to MoCa. It's best to use a splitter like this for a TA even if you're not using MoCa.
That sucks for those stuck on cable cos using SDV. That may require an extra amp higher up, as now each TV needs another -3.5dB split on it...

Luckily, if Comcast ever implements it, many systems will not need TA's for TiVo, only for MCE, since they already have support for it over software for XoD. Highly unlikely they would use that awful technology, however.

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You are 100% correct. MOCA is working everywhere but upstairs bedrooms have poor signal strength. Odd that WGN Superstation and a few others like CNN HD, HBO, and Showtime come in perfectly, but others are Searching For Signal. Even locals won't come in. Do we know of an amplifier that won't upset MOCA? I don't want to call Comcast since they'll start interpreting my multi room setup and add extra outlets to my multiple Tivos.
Anything good should work with MoCA, or you could put one amp on the whole system and then a POE filter and then splitters. However, my parents have an old RadioShack POS amp and it works fine with Comcast's version of MoCA on a DCX3400.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:54 AM   #66
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A working Setup w/ MoCA, Amplifier & Tuning Adapter

Here's the setup I used at my parents house with an amplifier and MoCA - it took a little time to figure out how to get it all working but it works. The TiVo connects to the internet through MoCA - will be adding a Mini or two in about a month (already have them!).

I used Broadband Extreme 1 GHz rated splitters, and the amp is a Motorola BDA-S1 (I am going to switch it to a BDA-K1 when I install the Minis such that I can amplify the upstream as well, the S1 only amplifies the downstream, the K1 does upstream and downstream). The diplexers in use were Holland STVC.

The diplexers were used to separate the CATV signal from the MoCA signals, as the amp is only rated 5 - 1002 MHz and amplifies the CATV signals. The diplexer sends the higher frequency MoCA signals around the amplifier and then the second diplexer re-combines the signals onto a single cable.

I also would've put another MoCA filter between the MoCA Adapter and the Cable Modem, but the Cable Modem is a Motoroal SB6121 which has a built-in MoCA Filter.

Further, they are on Charter and use SDV. I used a 2-Way splitter at the TiVo with one leg going to the TA and the other to the TiVo. I also put a terminator on the TA's output.

If I recall correctly I was seeing about 230Mbps on the TiVo for the MoCA speeds - I don't recall what the signal strength of the CATV is, but the incoming service was +3dB and the modem was sitting at -4dB (its about 100 feet of cable away). The CATV run to the TiVo is approximately 150 feet (so a -6dB drop). I am guessing the signal level of the TiVo is about -5 to -10dB. I plan to hook-up a cable modem the next time I'm there w/ the Minis to get a value.

Feel free to ask me any questions on the setup.
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File Type: jpg MoCA_with_Amplifier.jpg (16.4 KB, 88 views)

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Old 03-14-2013, 04:31 AM   #67
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I have wired Ethernet (1 Gbps) pretty much everywhere in my house.

Is there any reason/advantage to using MoCA instead of Ethernet for connecting XL4 to mini?
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:19 AM   #68
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I have wired Ethernet (1 Gbps) pretty much everywhere in my house.

Is there any reason/advantage to using MoCA instead of Ethernet for connecting XL4 to mini?
No. 1GBPS Ethernet is probably faster.

MoCA is fine when you can't/don't want to run new lines everywhere in the house.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:35 AM   #69
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I have wired Ethernet (1 Gbps) pretty much everywhere in my house.

Is there any reason/advantage to using MoCA instead of Ethernet for connecting XL4 to mini?
I have 1Gbps everywhere and still opted for MoCA for my new Minis. Using MoCA allowed me to retire ethernet switches at those locations that are no longer needed.... so I save a few extra watts by using MoCA although perhaps I lose that back on the TiVo XL4 as it might consume a few more watts when the MoCA bridge is in use.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:37 AM   #70
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I have a question related to security. I went ahead and set my two Minis up with MoCA and they are working well. I have not yet ordered or installed a POE filter for my coax network.

What are the security implications if I don't do this? Would any neighbor device on the same Comcast physical network be able to get an IP address from my host TiVo with the MoCA bridge?

At the point of entry into the home I have a ceramic fuse surge protector installed inline on the coax network as I'm always leery of coax power surges taking a lot of expensive gear out (and we get some serious lightning storms in Colorado). It will be a bit of a PITA for me to install a POE filter inline next to that surge unit.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #71
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Looks like I'm going to have to use MOCA. My Mini won't connect to my Cisco gigabyte switch. It does connect to my 100baseT switch, though. Has anybody else had a similar issue?
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:58 AM   #72
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At the point of entry into the home I have a ceramic fuse surge protector installed inline on the coax network as I'm always leery of coax power surges taking a lot of expensive gear out (and we get some serious lightning storms in Colorado). It will be a bit of a PITA for me to install a POE filter inline next to that surge unit.
Presumably you have a splitter at some point downstream from the surge unit that branches your coax off to the various rooms? Install the POE filter on the input side of that splitter.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:00 AM   #73
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I have wired Ethernet (1 Gbps) pretty much everywhere in my house.

Is there any reason/advantage to using MoCA instead of Ethernet for connecting XL4 to mini?
I tried using MoCA for a while with my Elites, Premiere, and a few other devices. While transferring between a couple of TiVos it was fine. But when I had multiple transfers going concurrently, like to TiVo Desktop, the transfer speeds took a hit. So I went back to my gigabit backbone.

For me, any Minis I use will be at a location that already has a bunch of networked devices. So I can't get rid of any switches anyway. So there is no advantage for me to go to MoCA. If I had a location where the Mini would be the only network connected device I would use MoCA for it instead of a GigE switch.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:25 AM   #74
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Presumably you have a splitter at some point downstream from the surge unit that branches your coax off to the various rooms? Install the POE filter on the input side of that splitter.
I don't have a traditional splitter per-se. I have a coaxial multiport panel, which has very tight connection tolerances, I'm not sure if I can get the POE filter to fit.

The key thing is, "do I need it". What's the real-world risk of not installing it?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 AM   #75
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I don't have a traditional splitter per-se. I have a coaxial multiport panel, which has very tight connection tolerances, I'm not sure if I can get the POE filter to fit.

The key thing is, "do I need it". What's the real-world risk of not installing it?
I see. I'm no expert on network security, so I can't really speak to that, but I think there's some risk that MoCA signal leakage outside of your home somehow causes problems for your neighbors, and the cable co. traces the source of the problem back to your cable plant. Their fix, of course, would likely be to install a POE filter at some point (maybe further upstream from your panel if it won't fit in there).
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:45 AM   #76
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I see. I'm no expert on network security, so I can't really speak to that, but I think there's some risk that MoCA signal leakage outside of your home somehow causes problems for your neighbors, and the cable co. traces the source of the problem back to your cable plant. Their fix, of course, would likely be to install a POE filter at some point (maybe further upstream from your panel if it won't fit in there).
OK, thanks. I will check and see if I can find a point of entry filter locally and if so I will see if installation is possible. I don't want to degrade my neighbors service.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:56 AM   #77
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OK, thanks. I will check and see if I can find a point of entry filter locally and if so I will see if installation is possible. I don't want to degrade my neighbors service.
Good luck finding one locally. I don't think anyone carries them (or even knows what they are) in my neck of the woods. But your cable co. might just give you one if you ask - chances are they are using them in their own whole home DVR installs and may be happy to give you one if they understand it could prevent problems for them.

I just ordered one from an eBay seller for about $8 shipped IIRC.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:19 PM   #78
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Yes. You just need to enable MoCa bridging in the XL4's network configuration menu and the mini will be able to talk to the internet through the XL4's Ethernet connection.
Worked like a champ! All I had to do was enable MoCA on the XL4. Just can't believe it worked that easily. Very impressive!

BTW, I ordered by mini Tuesday morning around 11:00am EDT. There was a $38 charge for 2-day shipping. I just took the free UPS ground shipping. It arrived today! Maybe I'm just lucky it got here in 2 days, but I'm really glad I didn't spend the extra bucks.

Thanks again Dan for the help.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:28 PM   #79
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Glad it all worked out for you.

I've paid the extra $3.99 to have an item overnighted to me from Amazon only to have them ship it via UPS ground because it came from the Amazon warehouse the next town over. Always p*sses me off. But you can never tell where exactly it's going to ship from so if you need it right away you have to pay.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:52 PM   #80
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Glad it all worked out for you.

I've paid the extra $3.99 to have an item overnighted to me from Amazon only to have them ship it via UPS ground because it came from the Amazon warehouse the next town over. Always p*sses me off. But you can never tell where exactly it's going to ship from so if you need it right away you have to pay.
Oh that drives me nuts all the time
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:28 PM   #81
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Hmm... Not sure where I'm going wrong with my set up, maybe someone can point it out.

I have an XL4, connected via ethernet, using a Comcast cable card. I just got a Mini for the bedroom. I enabled MoCA on the Tivo (I've never used it before), gave it permission to allocate a tuner to the Mini and plugged the coax in the bedroom into the Mini.

I registered the Mini with Tivo and started guided set up. I selected MoCA, but the Mini does not recognize a network.

From what I gathered here, if my Tivo is hooked up through ethernet and connected to a coax cable, I don't need a MoCA adapter. Am I wrong about that? If not, what did I miss?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:43 PM   #82
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Sounds like you've got it connected right. When you setup the XL4 did you use the MoCa+Ethernet option?

Are there a lot of splitters or a really long run of coax between the TiVo and Mini? Anything else that might be blocking the signal like an amplifier or filter of any kind?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:51 PM   #83
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Sounds like you've got it connected right. When you setup the XL4 did you use the MoCa+Ethernet option?

Are there a lot of splitters or a really long run of coax between the TiVo and Mini? Anything else that might be blocking the signal like an amplifier or filter of any kind?
Yes, Ethernet + MoCA.

No amplifiers or filters. I didn't run any cable, there's a cable in the living room and one in the bedroom. The rooms aren't far apart, but I don't know how much cable there is between the two rooms.

When I connect the Tivo to the network, it seems to be loading information very, very slowly since I enabled MoCA. But I'm still able to get my normal HD connection on Netflix.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:59 PM   #84
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When I bought my MoCa adapter I had a little trouble getting it to talk to the TiVo. I ended up rebooting the TiVo, waiting until it was completely done, then powering on the adapter. It took a couple more minutes and then they finally synced. Since then both have been powered off multiple times and never had a problem syncing. Only that during initial setup did I have any trouble.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:03 AM   #85
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thanks for the info

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MoCA 1.1 has a max PHY rate of 270, though the actual data rate is lower. But a strong phy rate means a strong data rate.

General rule of thumb in case of any future troubleshooting... A moca 1.1 PHY rate over 200 is solid. Under 200 can mean there's a weak or damaged connection somewhere, but it still may work if it's not too bad. (I stress I'm not referring to data transfer rates. Those will be lower.)
Thank you for this info. My PHY rates were 120!, before I read your post.
I removed a couple of 1000mhz splitters and now I'm at 220.

Now, to get the POE in place. Cox included three with their free connection kits.


Thanks again.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:48 PM   #86
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Hi all. I wound up buying a TiVo Premiere 4 today (the 75-hour 4-tuner model) and a TiVo Mini so we can watch TiVo on our little kitchen HDTV.

I have it all connected just like option #2 from the TiVo site:
http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-mini/index.html

No separate MoCA adapter since my understanding per that setup is that I do not need one (right?). The 4-tuner TiVo actually set up fine (and surprisingly the cablecard transfer via Comcast only took a 6 minute call).

But while setting up the TiVo Mini now, I am not getting a MoCA network connection established via the coax wall connection. Did I not follow the connection instructions correctly? I had that kitchen TV connected to a little Comcast box for a couple years so I know the connection and signal strength is good (for TV at least).

EDIT: I decided to reboot the new 4-tuner TiVo and after it restarted, I was able to see it from the TiVo Mini. Now downloading all the updates, but I am now able to watch live TV on the Mini! Pretty slick!
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #87
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New mini appears to be defective--MOCA does not work

I set up the mini (after activating) and used MOCA. I kept getting a C33 error--no MOCA. I have an XL4 on MOCA and it works fine. So I switched to Ethernet using a MOCA adapter (NIM100) and now the mini worked fine. Tried MOCA again and same error. I must have a MOCA siganlon the outlet since the NIM100 works, but the mini does not. Any suggestions?
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:48 PM   #88
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I have FIOS so already have MOCA via the Verizon router. Just hooked up an XL4 and two mini's intending on using the built-in MOCA in all three. The XL4 connected fine, but the two mini's could not find the MOCA network. Like the poster above I had a nim-100 MOCA adapter handy so I used that for one mini and it worked fine. Why does my existing MOCA equipment and the XL4 work fine with the Verizon router but the mini's do not?
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:09 PM   #89
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Hazel/farlz... this might be a stretch but have your Minis been updated to the latest software? When the Mini first came out, an update was available right away that cleared up a moca networking issue for me. Maybe connecting both through the NIM100 temporarily (or some other means) to let them grab the newest software release could help fix it? Just a thought.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:05 AM   #90
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I did update the software on mine but it still had the problem. I sent mine back to amazon (after calling TiVo) and am getting a new one today. I hope there is not a bad batch of minis with defective MOCA.
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