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Old 03-14-2013, 12:25 PM   #91
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Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA. You can only watch live TV from the 4 tuner host, which you pointed out doesn't do OTA.

I think OTA users are going to have to wait for the next gen hardware.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:27 PM   #92
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Tivo has said for a long time that when dynamic tuning was complete the Mini would support 2 tuners. Now that the Mini is out they have now said no way ever for 2 tuner. They have had a lot of time to get the dynamic tuner feature working and like most of there hardware releases they come out only 1/2 ready. I would not be surprised if by the time this feature is released they will then say it only will work with the next gen Tivo and 4 tune Premiers will not be able to use it. On the surface why can't this feature be implemented the same way existing Tivos put a message on the screen asking if it is ok to use the tuner you are watching to a record a show. If you do not answer the question it takes the tuner. If you say no it does not record. Why is that so hard for the Mini. If you do not answer the prompt it releases the tuner. How much work to implement that can it be?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #93
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Sorry but that is just asinine.
I agree--I was just explaining why the previous poster included the cost of a P4 in the total cost of streaming material recorded from an OTA source to an Mini.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:30 PM   #94
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Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA.
This sounds correct, a Mini user would only be able to stream already-recorded OTA material from a two-tuner Premiere, not stream a live OTA channel.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 03-14-2013 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Typo!
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:36 PM   #95
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I agree--I was just explaining why the previous poster included the cost of a P4 in the total cost of streaming material recorded from an OTA source to an Mini.
Oh ok. I wondered why they were doing that. Makes sense now.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:54 PM   #96
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Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA. You can only watch live TV from the 4 tuner host, which you pointed out doesn't do OTA.

I think OTA users are going to have to wait for the next gen hardware.
Actually OTA brings up another point. Since the 2 tuner Premieres use different tuners than the 4 tuner Premieres, perhaps the mechanism for the Mini to steal a tuner would have to be completely different from what is currently implemented. So even with dynamic tuning capability it may have been a lot more work to get things working with 2 tuner units, so TiVo decided not to do it. Makes you wonder if Mini will ever work with OTA capable TiVos as hosts. Still doesn't explain why not just at least allow Mini to use 2 tuner hosts without possibility of stealing a tuner though...
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #97
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We've actually discussed that possibility before. And it seems like it might be a viable technological hurdle. However if they plan on releasing a new unit which supports OTA then they're going to have to tackle that problem eventually anyway. Unless they've found a supplier for the new unit which can consolidate OTA and cable into one physical tuner or they release an OTA only box. Neither of which is very likely.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:30 PM   #98
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They have had a lot of time to get the dynamic tuner feature working and like most of there hardware releases they come out only 1/2 ready.
While I don't have a 4 tuner model either, this would work for me 100% of the time. I would have the mini so I would not have to watch live TV anywhere. Mind boggling how many want to use this for live TV.

My disappointment is a lack of Netflix, which we use often, so I'll keep my own setup until the new hardware is out.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #99
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On Facebook, Tivo seems to suggest that it's not a technology issue but it was decided that 2 tuner support would not be allowed because it would diminish the DVR experience on the host box.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #100
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Make sense. Especially if they have a 3+ tuner unit that supports OTA waiting in the wings. Right now the only non-cost related reason not to upgrade to a 4 tuner box is if you still want OTA. (or analog) Sounds like whatever box they have coming down the pipe will at least support OTA. (analog users are still SOL)
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #101
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On Facebook, Tivo seems to suggest that it's not a technology issue but it was decided that 2 tuner support would not be allowed because it would diminish the DVR experience on the host box.
I think that is obvious. Of course, this forum is full of conspiracy theories claiming TiVo obviously hates 2 tuner users or they want people to buy the XL4. But the fact is, most of the decisions were made so that the experience from the Mini and the host box are what users expect.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:04 PM   #102
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I think that is obvious. Of course, this forum is full of conspiracy theories claiming TiVo obviously hates 2 tuner users or they want people to buy the XL4. But the fact is, most of the decisions were made so that the experience from the Mini and the host box are what users expect.
Only problem with that is... I would not plan to use any tuners. I just want to watch recorded shows and IPTV (Netflix and Amazon). So, I would not be changing the DVR experience on my 2 tuner box. I think Tivo should let me decide this.

Anyway, unless they have an OTA box with 4 or more tuners and a good deal on the box for those of us with 2 tuners then I guess I am not going to be getting this product. It's a shame because I was excited about the possibility but now I'm just not as happy with Tivo as I once was.

Ideally, they would just create or allow a Roku or Apple TV app that would allow us OTA users to stream our recorded programs.

Last edited by magnus : 03-14-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:24 PM   #103
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Ideally, they would just create or allow a Roku or Apple TV app that would allow us OTA users to stream our recorded programs.
Neither of those devices support MPEG-2 encoding, so you'd also need a TiVo Stream which is an additional $130.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:38 PM   #104
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Neither of those devices support MPEG-2 encoding, so you'd also need a TiVo Stream which is an additional $130.
Yep, I have one of those. I really like it too. I've used it a lot on my trip and caught up on a lot of TV.

Last edited by magnus : 03-14-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:48 PM   #105
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Well, I guess I'm out of luck. I had picked up a Stream and thought I could download a show from my 2 tuner Premiere and mirror it to the TV via the Apple TV. Anybody who tried this saw a message that the feature was not supported in the TiVo app. I figured I'd wait and pick up a Mini when they were released. Now, it seems I am still out of luck. I'm OTA and am not interested in getting cable and buying a new TiVo just so I can by a Mini. I had hoped that I could just send recorded shows to the Mini and not worry about tuners, but I guess that is not an option. Oh well, still love my Stream.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #106
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FYI: You can use AirPlay with a TiVo Stream if you jail break your iOS device. If you're the hacker type.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #107
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I did read that somewhere, but I'm sure I'd screw it up. Still, I like tinkering with stuff. Hmmm. Thanks for putting the thought in my head. I'll know who to blame when I brick the iPad, lol.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:03 PM   #108
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FYI: You can use AirPlay with a TiVo Stream if you jail break your iOS device. If you're the hacker type.
That seems like around the building several times to get in the front door. :-)
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:05 PM   #109
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Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA. You can only watch live TV from the 4 tuner host, which you pointed out doesn't do OTA.

I think OTA users are going to have to wait for the next gen hardware.
Why couldn't you use the tuner in the TV set for live OTA?
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:10 PM   #110
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Antenna is hooked to TV and TiVo in living room. I really don't want to get on roof and split signal and run another cable to the bedroom. I can live with live TV only in the living room. I have an Apple TV, blu-ray player and DVD/VCR combo in the bedroom for watching other stuff.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:15 PM   #111
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I did read that somewhere, but I'm sure I'd screw it up. Still, I like tinkering with stuff. Hmmm. Thanks for putting the thought in my head. I'll know who to blame when I brick the iPad, lol.
Wasn't me!

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Why couldn't you use the tuner in the TV set for live OTA?
No pause or instant replay that way.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:34 PM   #112
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Only problem with that is... I would not plan to use any tuners. I just want to watch recorded shows and IPTV (Netflix and Amazon).
The Mini wasn't designed for you. Most people expect when they install a cable box that they can watch live tv. And since this box is designed for cable MSOs, it makes exact sense why they designed it the way they did.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:43 PM   #113
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The Mini wasn't designed for you. Most people expect when they install a cable box that they can watch live tv. And since this box is designed for cable MSOs, it makes exact sense why they designed it the way they did.
At one point it was designed to do most of what I wanted it to do and then they changed it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:47 PM   #114
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This was a business decision, not a technical one. They decided that it was easier to require a 4 tuner box then to explain why it couldn't do live TV on a 2 tuner box. Both options have downfalls. They chose the one that made the most sense for their business.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:21 PM   #115
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The one MSO deploying the Mini (Suddenlink) is charging $6 to $7 for it depending on package.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/news/2013...00-communities
That's nice of Suddenlink, but other MSOs will want to go for the full $10.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:21 PM   #116
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...Mind boggling how many want to use this for live TV...
Have you heard of a these little events known as LIVE SPORTS? Not quite the same when recorded
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:22 PM   #117
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What's that? I still want to skip over commercials. No need to watch any sport event live, unless you are physically at the game.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:28 PM   #118
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Thanks Dan, even though the answer is negative. The main reason behind the earlier post was to get a definitive answer to the implied question in that post.

It wouldn't be worth $900 for me, but I wanted to know if the proposed configuration would even work. Too bad!

The current versions of TiVo are essentially upscale cable box replacements. OTA capabilities apparently don't generate enough revenue to be viable for TiVo Inc. as a continuing business model.

Sadly, it appears I've bought my last TiVo product.

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So, a TiVo Mini can be used to recive OTA streaming from a TiVo Premiere already on the account, but in order to do so the account holder would have to spend a minimum of $900, or $349 upfront plus $21 monthly.

$250 (P4)
$400 (Lifetime w/MSD)
$99 (Mini)
$150 (Mini Lifetime)
_____
$900 (total; or $349 upfront + $21 monthly w/1yr. commitment)
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Even with that setup you wouldn't be able to watch live OTA. You can only watch live TV from the 4 tuner host, which you pointed out doesn't do OTA.

I think OTA users are going to have to wait for the next gen hardware.

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:34 PM   #119
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Have you heard of a these little events known as LIVE SPORTS? Not quite the same when recorded
I never got a good explanation to why that is. As long as you have no inkling about the result what does it matter? It's not like you watching live or not has any influence on the result unless you are overtly superstitious. If that is the reason then the only way to really watch it without time delay is at game itself since the broadcast adds delay, DVR adds more delay, etc. so if watching on TV you are NEVER watching it live.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #120
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Have you heard of a these little events known as LIVE SPORTS? Not quite the same when recorded
Heard of them but don't get them. I also don't understand why some people feel they can't watch them delayed.
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