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Old 03-09-2013, 02:07 PM   #1
Riverdome
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Mini and tuner allocation

All this time I've been thinking that an XL4 with a mini would still be able to record 4 shows at once, just not while you are actively using the mini. The more I read it sounds like the XL4 loses a tuner permanently as it is assigned to the mini. Do I have that right?

What exactly is dynamic tuner allocation? The ability for the mini to pull a tuner from either of multiple XL4s? But if you have two XL4s (8 tuners) and a mini - you would effectively always have access to 7 tuners as one tuner is still dedicated to the mini, even if it isn't currently being used.

Right?
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #2
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Right now that is right. If you want to watch live TV on a Mini then you have to permanently allocate a tuner to it turning your 4 tuner unit into a 3 tuner unit.

Dynamic tuner allocation works the way you assumed it would work. The host TiVo has access to all of it's tuners for recording unless the Mini is actively using it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:33 AM   #3
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Even with dynamic tuner allocation, I don't think you're going to be able to pull a tuner from either of 2 XL4's. I suppose it's possible, but I'm guessing it will still only pull a tuner from the 4-tuner DVR that it's paired with during setup.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:54 AM   #4
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Ok so say I have an XL4 and 3 minis spread across the house. When I'm watching live TV on the XL4 I would only have a single tuner - regardless if anyone is actively using any of the minis, correct?
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:56 AM   #5
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Ok so say I have an XL4 and 3 minis spread across the house. When I'm watching live TV on the XL4 I would only have a single tuner - regardless if anyone is actively using any of the minis, correct?
We dont know but it looks like no. The Mini would only Use the tuner when someone is watching TV. the person with suddenlink confirmed it has a stand by automatic timer and a stand by mode
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:02 AM   #6
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You can currently assign only 2 Minis per 4-tuner DVR. And you can allocate 0, 1, or 2 tuners on that DVR for live TV viewing by Minis. If you allocated 1 tuner, then only 1 of your minis could be viewing live TV at any given time.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:50 AM   #7
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You can currently assign only 2 Minis per 4-tuner DVR. And you can allocate 0, 1, or 2 tuners on that DVR for live TV viewing by Minis. If you allocated 1 tuner, then only 1 of your minis could be viewing live TV at any given time.
One thing I never see mentioned: if you allocate no tuners on the Premiere for mini livetv, you can still schedule a recording from the mini for whatever you want to watch "live" and start streaming it from the Premiere right away. Doesn't work for channel surfing, but does for guide surfing.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:00 PM   #8
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I've got another scenario. If I have a Premier 4 and I buy a Mini, I can assign 2 tuners to the Mini. One night I'm recording on all 4 tuners, can I also watch 2 pre-recorded show on the Mini and the P4 at the same time??
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:20 PM   #9
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I've got another scenario. If I have a Premier 4 and I buy a Mini, I can assign 2 tuners to the Mini. One night I'm recording on all 4 tuners, can I also watch 2 pre-recorded show on the Mini and the P4 at the same time??
Logically, you would only ever be recording on two tuners, as the other two would be dedicated to supporting Live TV (though that is like the Stream where it actually starts a recording on the host when you want to watch "live").

But in your scenario you could watch one show on each Mini and one on the DVR at the same time.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #10
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Logically, you would only ever be recording on two tuners, as the other two would be dedicated to supporting Live TV (though that is like the Stream where it actually starts a recording on the host when you want to watch "live").

But in your scenario you could watch one show on each Mini and one on the DVR at the same time.
I don't understand your comments about having to reserve 2 of the 4 tuners for live TV. Right now on my Comcast DVR, I can record 2 programs at once while watching another one that was pre-recorded. I think I can do the same on any 2 tuner DVR made by Tivo right now too.

Apparently I didn't express myself very well, let me try again.

I've got a 4 tuner Tivo and a Mini with 2 tuners of the 4 tuner Tivo allocated to it. The Tivo at 9 on Sunday is recording 2 season passes. At the same time, the Mini is recording 2 season passes on it's 2 tuners. All 4 tuners are being used currently recording season passes, but I want to watch something that was previously recorded in the study on the Tivo and my husband wants to watch something on the Mini which was also pre-recorded.

My question is since you can watch a previously recorded program when all your tuners are being used, will you be able to access 2 pre-recorded programs from 2 different sources while recording 4 more?

Last edited by grey ghost : 03-10-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:48 PM   #11
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I've got a 4 tuner Tivo and a Mini with 2 tuners of the 4 tuner Tivo allocated to it. The Tivo at 9 on Sunday is recording 2 season passes. At the same time, the Mini is recording 2 season passes on it's 2 tuners. All 4 tuners are being used currently recording season passes, but I want to watch something that was previously recorded in the study on the Tivo and my husband wants to watch something on the Mini which was also pre-recorded.
The Mini doesn't record anything and doesn't have Season Passes of its own - it's leeching off the host unit. The only thing it can use a tuner for is for live TV. Therefore if in your 4 tuner TiVo you allocate 2 tuners for use by Minis then they won't be available for recordings anymore - i.e. You make your 4 tuner unit a 2 tuner unit even if you are not using Minis to watch live TV.
You can always watch a pre-recorded show on either the 4 tuner unit or the Mini regardless of what the tuners are doing.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:04 AM   #12
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The Mini doesn't record anything and doesn't have Season Passes of its own - it's leeching off the host unit. The only thing it can use a tuner for is for live TV. Therefore if in your 4 tuner TiVo you allocate 2 tuners for use by Minis then they won't be available for recordings anymore - i.e. You make your 4 tuner unit a 2 tuner unit even if you are not using Minis to watch live TV.
You can always watch a pre-recorded show on either the 4 tuner unit or the Mini regardless of what the tuners are doing.
On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:18 AM   #13
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On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.
No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:27 AM   #14
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On the Tivo site, it shows that the Mini can set up recordings/season passes from it's interface with the 4 tuner Tivo. I also thought I read that in the Mini setup, you had to tell how many tuners of the Premiere 4 you would allow the Mini to use. I assumed(perhaps improperly) that the reason for that question was to artificially create a 2 tuner DVR on the Mini that would be able to schedule 2 recordings at any time.
There is no recordings done on a Mini. It only streams content from a host TiVo.

The Mini can schedule a recording on the Host than can later be streamed to the Mini (in the case of watching Live TV, later may only be a few seconds)
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:38 AM   #15
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No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.
Yea, I got that. Perhaps I'm just thinking about it wrong, but I'm rationalizing that the Mini would be a "virtual 2 tuner Tivo" if I allocated 2 tuners to the Mini. While you could program recordings/season passes on the Mini, I realize that the actual recording will be happening on the 4 tuner Tivo.

It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini. Are you saying that when you do that, you will never be able to use that tuner for anything other than live TV? You won't ever be able to allocate all 4 tuners again at the same time??

Comcast is behind the times here, so I've never scheduled a recording on an iOS app.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:22 AM   #16
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It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini. Are you saying that when you do that, you will never be able to use that tuner for anything other than live TV? You won't ever be able to allocate all 4 tuners again at the same time??
You have the choice to dedicate 0 tuners to the Mini in which case you keep all 4 tuners available for the host unit but also means no live TV possible with the Mini. As soon as you dedicate a tuner to the Mini it is out of the pool of tuners used for recording. If you look at the various threads and comments from TiVo there is talk of upcoming enhancements related to "dynamic tuner allocation" where the Mini will only use the tuner when needed for live TV but freeing it up for recordings otherwise which is of course a much better solution. But if you are thinking of buying a Mini you shouldn't count that as a given that it will ever happen, even though it is likely.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:00 AM   #17
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Perhaps I'm just thinking about it wrong, but I'm rationalizing that the Mini would be a "virtual 2 tuner Tivo" if I allocated 2 tuners to the Mini. While you could program recordings/season passes on the Mini, I realize that the actual recording will be happening on the 4 tuner Tivo.
No, that is not how it works. The dedicated tuner(or tuners) on the Premiere 4/XL4 is/are dedicated SOLELY for LiveTV use by the (currently up to 2) Mini's attached to the Premiere.

Any recordings scheduled on the Mini are really being scheduled on the Premier just as though you were scheduling them on the Premiere itself. The Mini is just providing the UI so you don't have to physically walk to and use the Premiere's remote.

This is how it will work until the so-called "dynamic tuner allocation" is released at some point in the future (rumored Q2 2013). At that point (via the same rumors) you will be able to attach up to 9 Minis to the same Premiere and the tuners will no longer be dedicated to the pool of Mini's, but allocated to the Mini's as needed -- allowing them to be used as regular recording tuners as well.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #18
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It says on the Tivo website that you must dedicate at least 1 tuner to the Mini.
Not true. If it is on their website, it is a typo -or- you are thinking about live tv from this quote:
Quote:
The TiVo Mini requires the use of a dedicated tuner on your 4-tuner DVR to stream live TV.
The mini can use 0 tuners and just stream from a four tuner model.

That is why you see some complaints- folks with two tuner models would like to use this to just stream recordings...
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:50 PM   #19
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TiVo must have some data suggesting that a good percentage of their customers still watch live TV, otherwise I'm not sure why they would focus so much attention on that capability.

Honestly if I had a Mini I would dedicate 0 tuners to live TV and use it for streaming only. I've watched live TV maybe once in the last 2 years and that was breaking news. If there really was something like that going on I could just move to the other TV or use the Mini to setup a recording of the news channel and then stream that recording. I have no need to watch real live TV on a Mini, or any TiVo really.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:21 PM   #20
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No, when you schedule recordings and season passes they are all on the host 4 tuner DVR, just like when you schedule recordings using iOS/Android apps.
Thanks for the corrections guys. I appreciate it because I'm really trying to figure out a solution for the master bedroom and that's where my husband DVRs all his shows. I'm trying to figure out if a Mini will work in that area so we can get rid of a Comcast DVR or if we just need to get a regular Tivo there.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #21
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How many Minis can one Premiere 4 support? I've heard 3, but TiVo's website suggests that it could support the full 9 now, albeit without dynamic tuner allocation.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:31 PM   #22
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You can only allocate 2 tuners to live TV and the maximum number of out going streams a single TiVo supports is 3. So based on that you could never use more then 3 Minis with the same host concurrently. And never use more then 2 to watch live TV.

That being said I think the maximum number of Minis you can physically have registered on one accunt is 9, so that's the most you could ever actually have in one household.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:10 PM   #23
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You can only allocate 2 tuners to live TV and the maximum number of out going streams a single TiVo supports is 3. So based on that you could never use more then 3 Minis with the same host concurrently. And never use more then 2 to watch live TV.

That being said I think the maximum number of Minis you can physically have registered on one accunt is 9, so that's the most you could ever actually have in one household.
The impression I got before was that you could only ever have 3 paired to one Premiere4, so you can actually have 9 Minis paired to a single Premiere4, and you can use 3 at once?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:16 PM   #24
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How many Minis can one Premiere 4 support? I've heard 3, but TiVo's website suggests that it could support the full 9 now, albeit without dynamic tuner allocation.
DigitalDawn (the member who broke the news about the launch in the Tivo Mini Lives thread) originally indicated that each 4-tuner Premiere would initially only support 2 Minis. But you are right - I can't find anything on Tivo's support pages that confirms that. All I see is this statement:

"A maximum of 10 TiVo devices per account, including TiVo Mini, can share programming."

That sort of implies the full 9 could be supported.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:49 PM   #25
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The impression I got before was that you could only ever have 3 paired to one Premiere4, so you can actually have 9 Minis paired to a single Premiere4, and you can use 3 at once?
I don't know for sure. It depends on how the Mini pairs to the host. If it's like another TiVo and just calls up it's My Shows via RPC as needed, then the only limit should be the account limit which is a max of 10 devices per account. (i.e. TiVo + 9 Minis) However if it actually does some special pairing with the host then there could be some imposed limit I'm not aware of.

Although based on what's been said I don't think it does any special pairing at the host side. It seems to dynamically poll the host for a free tuner when watching live TV, which is how two Minis can share a host with only 1 tuner allocated to live TV. And the UI is really no different then what can also be done via the iPad app and there is no limitation to that.

The only hard limitations are the 10 device per account limit and the max 3 network streams limit on the TiVo.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #26
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DigitalDawn (the member who broke the news about the launch in the Tivo Mini Lives thread) originally indicated that each 4-tuner Premiere would initially only support 2 Minis. But you are right - I can't find anything on Tivo's support pages that confirms that. All I see is this statement:

"A maximum of 10 TiVo devices per account, including TiVo Mini, can share programming."

That sort of implies the full 9 could be supported.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. This will make it a lot more interesting for households with only a few people but a lot of TVs...
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #27
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Can anyone verify this from TiVo Support:

Tuner allocation troubleshooting

TiVo Mini requires the use of a dedicated tuner on your host DVR to stream Live TV. The host DVR allocates up to two tuners to TiVo Mini and other networked devices on a first-come, first-served basis. If other devices are currently using all available tuners dedicated for Live TV streaming, you will need to release a tuner for TiVo Mini to use.

Releasing a tuner for other TiVo devices

Once you access the host DVR's tuner from TiVo Mini, that tuner is not available for other network devices. When you are done using the Mini and want to release the host tuner to other network devices (e.g., another TiVo Mini, TiVo Stream), press the TiVo button to return to TiVo Central and release the tuner.

Unless you actively release the tuner, it remains locked by TiVo Mini for an hour and a half. If there is no remote activity on TiVo Mini during this time, it is automatically released.

Is that TiVo Central on the Mini? Does it really release the tuner onits own?

Thanks.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #28
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Both are true.

So if you have multiple Minis but never plan on using more then one for live TV at a given time then you can dedicate just one tuner to live TV, keeping 3 for the host, and share that one tuner amongst all your Minis on a first come first serve basis.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:03 PM   #29
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Thanks, Dan.

Reading your response made me realize the tuner sharing is among networked devices not the host DVR as I wished. So, that one tuner, for example, remains lost to the host.

Too bad.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:23 PM   #30
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Yes. Until they get dynamic tuner allocation working you have to permanently allocate a tuner to network devices if you want to be able to watch live TV. If you don't care about live TV you can just turn that feature off and give all the tuners back to the host. Someone else even mentioned a work around where you turn off live TV and instead use the guide on the Mini to start a recording and then start streaming the recording instead. Not quite as convenient as real live TV, but a decent work around if you don't watch much live TV and don't want to permanently sacrifice a tuner for it.
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