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Old 03-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Riverdome View Post
Very possible the marketing people didn't want to go head to head with Roku. To Joe public there's plenty of confusion over a Tivo mini that streams programming and a Roku 3 . . . that steams programming.
What marketing people? I've been on the "get info about the Mini" list for months and, as usual, haven't heard a peep from Tivo.

Tivo has absolutely NO IDEA how to market any of their products to the public and doesn't really seem to care.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:24 PM   #92
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can you get a mini and not tie it to a box? use it as a streaming only device?
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:30 PM   #93
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Just spoke to a Best Buy regional manager. He checked area warehouses and he can't find the SKU for the Mini, so he can't tell me if there are any. He did say that usually if he can't see a SKU by release date, then Best Buy has pulled or delayed the item.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:37 PM   #94
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can you get a mini and not tie it to a box? use it as a streaming only device?
You can select on the P4/XL4 not to allocate any tuners. (See Settings > Devices > Allow Live TV on Other Devices) and then just use it for streaming, yes. But having a P4/XL4 is still mandatory.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #95
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Release pushed back to next week - speculation is Tuesday - according to a sales rep that reports to have read a memo on the Mini and who says he can't tell me why.

The official answer is supposed to be "We can't comment about online speculation, but expect to see more information regarding the Tivo Mini on the Tivo home page in the next few days"
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:47 PM   #96
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I'm trying to look at the bright side. My xl4 is still in transit so I can't use the mini yet anyway! I was even wondering if they'd sell me one without having a 4 subscribed.

I had promised the mini for the wife who is constantly losing channels on her straight cable TV. Now, when I get the xl4 I guess she'll get it instead. :-(
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #97
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Very possible the marketing people didn't want to go head to head with Roku. To Joe public there's plenty of confusion over a Tivo mini that streams programming and a Roku 3 . . . that steams programming.
Probably not. I've done hundreds of product launches over the years and I can't think of a single one where we considered changing the date based on a competitors launch. With venues booked, press invited, etc it is really difficult and expensive to change the date. I'd be willing to bet that in the afternoon of September 11th 2001 there were product launches that still happened.

There are dozens of reasons that things move, but rarely is it a competitors launch.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:33 AM   #98
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They told us March 6th at the dealer meeting. I guess they decided to postpone it at the last minute.

I see that they have more dealer trainings set up, so maybe they just want to give it a bit more time. Should be this month though.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:55 AM   #99
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They told us March 6th at the dealer meeting. I guess they decided to postpone it at the last minute.

I see that they have more dealer trainings set up, so maybe they just want to give it a bit more time. Should be this month though.
Do you mind telling us when these trainings are set up for? Are they also in anticipation of a release of could they happen after a release?

I am kinda hoping that the heard grumblings about netflix and amazon and are scrambling to get those in....but thats wishful thinking, and with tivo, wishful thinking is almost always wrong.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:08 AM   #100
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Do you mind telling us when these trainings are set up for? Are they also in anticipation of a release of could they happen after a release?

I am kinda hoping that the heard grumblings about netflix and amazon and are scrambling to get those in....but thats wishful thinking, and with tivo, wishful thinking is almost always wrong.
They would have had to have been scrambling for months to get Netflix and Amazon in?
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #101
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The Netflix isn't quite a dealbreaker for me but it's close. It's disappointing.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #102
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They would have had to have been scrambling for months to get Netflix and Amazon in?
In my head I was thinking that they would probably have it ready with the dynamic allocation update, but that the were scrambling to have it ready now instead.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:46 AM   #103
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I am kinda hoping that the heard grumblings about netflix and amazon and are scrambling to get those in....but thats wishful thinking, and with tivo, wishful thinking is almost always wrong.
As long as you're on the topic of wishful thinking, I was hoping perhaps they realized $250 was too expensive for the TCF collective, and were looking at ways to trim that price so the faithful would be rewarded for their loyalty
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #104
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Do you mind telling us when these trainings are set up for? Are they also in anticipation of a release of could they happen after a release?

I am kinda hoping that the heard grumblings about netflix and amazon and are scrambling to get those in....but thats wishful thinking, and with tivo, wishful thinking is almost always wrong.
Having worked in technology retail 20+ years ago I can tell you that there were regular vendor trainings every thursday morning where I worked. Vendors basically pay for the ability to train the sales teams (it is all part of the marketing budget.)

You would typically do these in conjunction to a launch or if there was another competitive reason to do it. Because they were scheduled on a certain day each week, not whenever the vendor wanted, you would need to sign up and get on a schedule. Typically these are all locked down by the beginning of the quarter, so any training that is happening in March was scheduled back in December or so. If your launch date moves you typically don't get an opportunity to change dates unless one happens to be open.

Haven't dealt with retail in ages but in my current role we can "sponsor" training sessions, otherwise we typically don't get access to the sales people.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:57 PM   #105
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As long as you're on the topic of wishful thinking, I was hoping perhaps they realized $250 was too expensive for the TCF collective, and were looking at ways to trim that price so the faithful would be rewarded for their loyalty
250 is not expensive at all. To by a extender for the Direct TV Genie outright would cost you well over 300 dollars... and you still would not escape the monthly fee
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:01 PM   #106
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250 is not expensive at all. To by a extender for the Direct TV Genie outright would cost you well over 300 dollars... and you still would not escape the monthly fee
Yeah, it has to be clear that the streaming from a STB is the differentiator from something like an AppleTV for less than half the price. (of course, that has Netflix)
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:21 PM   #107
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Yeah, it has to be clear that the streaming from a STB is the differentiator from something like an AppleTV for less than half the price. (of course, that has Netflix)
For my setup I don't care about Amazon, Hulu, iTunes or any other streaming into TiVo. I just want TiVo to handle all my Cable signal recording and streaming needs. It sounds like the Mini will do everything I need as an extender. I can't wait to use it!

I think AppleTV devices are a great and affordable addition.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:04 PM   #108
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I still don't see the big deal about the price. Your only other option for gaining the same functionality would be to get a second Premiere. A second Premiere would cost $550 with lifetime. (MSRP) The Mini costs less then 1/2 that. Now with the Premiere you'd be gaining 2 tuners, but you'd also need a CableCARD to watch live TV which is another $2-$5/mo.

I think the only thing wrong with the price of the Mini is people's expectations.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:17 PM   #109
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I think the only thing wrong with the price of the Mini is people's expectations.
+1

You can round out a whole house with TiVo functionality at a cheaper price than is available right now. Win-Win.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #110
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I still don't see the big deal about the price. Your only other option for gaining the same functionality would be to get a second Premiere.
It'll be interesting to see how Verizon prices the extenders to go with their new VMS DVR hub later this year. $6 seems too low. But there'd be no upfront hardware expense.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #111
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I still don't see the big deal about the price. Your only other option for gaining the same functionality would be to get a second Premiere. A second Premiere would cost $550 with lifetime. (MSRP) The Mini costs less then 1/2 that. Now with the Premiere you'd be gaining 2 tuners, but you'd also need a CableCARD to watch live TV which is another $2-$5/mo.

I think the only thing wrong with the price of the Mini is people's expectations.
Expectations aren't the problem. Didn't everyone *expect* that the Mini would have a high price? This is Tivo we're talking about--they've always sold premium-priced products.

The problem is that not everyone is convinced the Mini's price is justified. There are Tivo diehards who gladly pay whatever Tivo asks for any new device, and there are others who like Tivo's products but nonetheless compare Tivo's offerings with competing devices.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #112
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+1

You can round out a whole house with TiVo functionality at a cheaper price than is available right now. Win-Win.
Can't agree more. $250 isn't bad for what you get. I think people are comparing it all the cheap streaming devices out, but not really thinking about what you get in the end.

I'm in for one, for sure!
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:49 PM   #113
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I still don't see the big deal about the price. Your only other option for gaining the same functionality would be to get a second Premiere. A second Premiere would cost $550 with lifetime. (MSRP) The Mini costs less then 1/2 that. Now with the Premiere you'd be gaining 2 tuners, but you'd also need a CableCARD to watch live TV which is another $2-$5/mo.

I think the only thing wrong with the price of the Mini is people's expectations.
You could throw a twin-tuner on OTA, and only have one on cable.

$180 is a more fair comparison, as that's what the Ceton Echo costs. Still pricey, especially considering that the Echo is aiming at far more of a niche market than TiVo. Then again, TiVo boxes are way overpriced in the first place, so we shouldn't be surprised that these things are as well.

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It'll be interesting to see how Verizon prices the extenders to go with their new VMS DVR hub later this year. $6 seems too low. But there'd be no upfront hardware expense.
Unfortunately, the industry standard for HD-DVR extender boxes is trending towards $10/mo.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #114
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Would be nice for a better upgrade path for those of us that bought a premiere early as we only have 2 tuners. I'd need the 4 tuner unit, another life time sub, the mini and a life time sub for that. That's quite a price tag, and quite a few months to recover the cost. Cable card runs me $2 a month and my cable box that I'd dump is $8.50 a month so I save $6.50 a month for a $900 investment? That's 138 months just to break even. Oh well I guess the cable company keeps getting my money for now.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:19 PM   #115
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...compare Tivo's offerings with competing devices.
The Mini is a DVR extender. It's only true competitors are devices offered by MSOs for a flat $7-10/mo or the Ceton Echo which is $180.

It's more expensive then the Ceton Echo, but they're in similar ranges and TiVo has the better brand recognition so they can get away with charging a little more. And compared to the MSO offerings it has about the same break even period as a TiVo vs MSO DVR.

Comparing it to a Roku or Apple TV because they have similar hardware is flawed because they serve two completely different purposes and have completely different business models.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:44 PM   #116
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Would be nice for a better upgrade path for those of us that bought a premiere early as we only have 2 tuners. I'd need the 4 tuner unit, another life time sub, the mini and a life time sub for that. That's quite a price tag, and quite a few months to recover the cost. Cable card runs me $2 a month and my cable box that I'd dump is $8.50 a month so I save $6.50 a month for a $900 investment? That's 138 months just to break even. Oh well I guess the cable company keeps getting my money for now.
You wouldn't need another cable card. The 4 tuner units use one card just like the two tuner units. So you'd save the full $8.50/mo for getting rid of the box. Also you'd be able to sell your current TiVo for $300-$350 to help offset the hardware cost. And when it came time to sell the new TiVo/Mini combo they will retain much of their value because of the lifetime service. If you do the long term math it's actually not that bad...

First off let's assume you can sell your current TiVo for $300. That brings the initial buy in down to $600. Now lets assume you keep the new TiVo/Mini combo for 2 years. In that time you will save $8.50/mo for the box which is $204. Which means that as long as you can sell both the TiVo/Mini combo for at least $396 it will have been a complete wash and cost you nothing to own for 2 years of use. And based on historic trends you'll actually be able to sell them for a lot more, probably $600-$700, meaning you'll actually be in the same position you are now with $300 or so to put toward your next TiVo.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #117
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You wouldn't need another cable card. The 4 tuner units use one card just like the two tuner units. So you'd save the full $8.50/mo for getting rid of the box. Also you'd be able to sell your current TiVo for $300-$350 to help offset the hardware cost. And when it came time to sell the new TiVo/Mini combo they will retain much of their value because of the lifetime service. If you do the long term math it's actually not that bad...

First off let's assume you can sell your current TiVo for $300. That brings the initial buy in down to $600. Now lets assume you keep the new TiVo/Mini combo for 2 years. In that time you will save $8.50/mo for the box which is $204. Which means that as long as you can sell both the TiVo/Mini combo for at least $396 it will have been a complete wash and cost you nothing to own for 2 years of use. And based on historic trends you'll actually be able to sell them for a lot more, probably $600-$700, meaning you'll actually be in the same position you are now with $300 or so to put toward your next TiVo.
I couldn't agree more, I plan on buying the Mini the day it is released. I will sell my 2 tuner Premiere with lifetime to recoup most of the money I spent on it. This will save me the $7.49 a month I'm paying for a discounted additional outlet fee from Comcast. The only gripe I have is sacrificing a tuner on my XL4, as there are times I do have 4 programs recording during Monday night prime time. I will be using the Mini in my bedroom to watch the news live in the evening. I just hope that TiVo doesn't take forever to release the dynamic tuner update. Once this is enabled, for me it will be the perfect solution. I also hope that the Mini will be able to be controlled via IP or their iOS app.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:54 PM   #118
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Comparing it to a Roku or Apple TV because they have similar hardware is flawed because they serve two completely different purposes and have completely different business models.
I understand what you're saying but as a consumer, I don't buy devices based on business models. And I continue to disagree that these types of devices have different purposes. They may have different delivery methods, but the end product is exactly the same. The only "different purpose" I see is that sales of the Mini equals cash in Tivo's pockets.

As a consumer, all I care about is receiving my video entertainment, and those "other" devices everyone else at TCF dismisses are more than capable of fulfilling that desire.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:16 PM   #119
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I understand what you're saying but as a consumer, I don't buy devices based on business models. And I continue to disagree that these types of devices have different purposes. They may have different delivery methods, but the end product is exactly the same. The only "different purpose" I see is that sales of the Mini equals cash in Tivo's pockets.

As a consumer, all I care about is receiving my video entertainment, and those "other" devices everyone else at TCF dismisses are more than capable of fulfilling that desire.
The other "different purpose" is to allow you to watch your recordings on another TV in your house cost free and in a timely manner. In order for a Roku or AppleTV to serve this purpose you must wait the the broadcast network to make the episode available AND typically they charge you $1.99/episode or some larger amount for the season subscription.

For example, to watch this week's new Modern Family on AppleTV I would have to purchase it from iTunes. It wouldn't be long before I spent more than the one-time $250 cost of a TiVo mini.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #120
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The other "different purpose" is to allow you to watch your recordings on another TV in your house cost free and in a timely manner. In order for a Roku or AppleTV to serve this purpose you must wait the the broadcast network to make the episode available AND typically they charge you $1.99/episode or some larger amount for the season subscription.
There's a piece of the puzzle missing in this example. The four-tuner Tivos require cable service, so you've omitted the cost of that cable service.

That recording you created on a Tivo and streamed to a Mini wasn't entirely free--it's just that you didn't pay a transactional cost for that program.
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