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Old 03-04-2013, 05:04 PM   #1
BigJimOutlaw
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Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

With the release of the Tivo Mini and Roamio boxes, a lot of people are considering using a MoCA connection rather than ethernet or wireless to communicate between Tivo devices.

Because a lot of people are new to MoCA, hopefully this quick and dirty setup information will help answer most of your questions. This isn't a complete A-to-Z MoCA FAQ; it just answers the most common setup questions that have come up on this forum.

This guide answers:

- What is MoCA?
- Why use MoCA?
- How to create a MoCA Network
- How to connect your Tivo devices to a MoCA Network
- Special issues (Tuning Adapters, FiOS customers)
- Troubleshooting most common issues

FiOS TV customers: Skip to near the end if you have setup questions.

What is MoCA?

Simply put, MoCA is a networking standard that allows you to transmit data over the coax cable in your home. It's an alternative to ethernet, wireless, and powerline adapters.

Why use MoCA?

Ethernet is ideal for home networking, but because most homes don't have ethernet cable running throughout them, most people use wireless [802.11] adapters as an alternative.

Wireless adapters can be slower and less reliable than a wired connection for many reasons. Because of this, Tivo recommends using a wired connection for multi-room streaming between Tivo devices. MoCA is a good option to use because it's faster and more reliable than wireless, and it uses the coax cable already running through your home.

If you have only 1 Tivo device, you may not need MoCA. A wireless adapter (or the Tivo Roamio's built-in wireless) may be all you need. This guide is mainly intended to help people with 2 or more Tivo devices stream content between them, such as a Tivo DVR to a Tivo Mini.

Enabling MoCA in the Home

There are two ways to set up a MoCA network:

Option 1: Connect MoCA-enabled Tivos by ethernet and use the Tivo to establish the MoCA network.
Option 2: Connect a MoCA adapter to your router. (Choose this option if running ethernet to your Tivo is not desirable.)

Option 1: Connect Tivo via Ethernet
Platforms Supported: Roamio Pro, Roamio Plus, XL4 (a/k/a Elite), Premiere 4

This option allows the Tivo itself to function as a MoCA bridge for the rest of the home.

1. Connect your Tivo (one of the boxes listed above) to your router via Ethernet.
2. Go in the Network Settings, select 'Change Network Settings' and select 'Use this DVR to create a MoCA Network.'

That's it! Your MoCA network is created!

3. Go into the Network Settings of your other MoCA-supported devices (Mini, Premiere 4, XL4) and select "MoCA" as their network connection type.

(Note: Using this method, your Mini(s) or other secondary MoCA devices are relying on your Tivo DVR for its internet connection, so if your Tivo DVR is offline for some reason, so are the secondary devices.)

If you have a Tivo on your network that does not support MoCA, check below for the "Setting up a 2-tuner Tivo or a 4-tuner basic Tivo Roamio for MoCA" section if you would like to get them connected to MoCA too.

Option 2: Use a MoCA Adapter
Platforms Supported: Roamio Pro, Roamio Plus, XL4 (a/k/a Elite), Premiere 4

1. If running an ethernet cable to your Tivo is not desirable or possible, purchase a MoCA adapter ($50 from tivo.com, and also available on Amazon, eBay, etc.).
2. Connect it to your modem and router as shown below to create a MoCA network.



That's it! Once the above diagram is completed, this will enable MoCA throughout the home.

3. Choose "MoCA" in the Network Settings on each Tivo box.

If you have a Tivo that does not have built-in MoCA support, check below for the "Setting up a 2-tuner Tivo or a 4-tuner basic Tivo Roamio for MoCA" section if you would like to get them connected to the MoCA network as well.


Setting up a 2-tuner Tivo or a 4-tuner basic Tivo Roamio for MoCA:

Platforms Supported: All Tivos with an ethernet port but not MoCA support (namely, 2-tuner Tivos and the 4-tuner basic Roamio.)

2-tuner Tivos and the basic 4-tuner Tivo Roamio do not natively support MoCA. However, you can still connect them to a MoCA network if you wish.

Follow one of the above options to create the MoCA network. You must also purchase additional MoCA adapters for each of the additional non-MoCA Tivos you wish to connect to the MoCA network, and connect them in this fashion:




FiOS TV Customers:

Your home is already MoCA-enabled if your Verizon-supplied router is connected via coax. Your P4/XL4/Roamio Plus/Roamio Pro and Mini can simply be connected to the coax, select "MoCA" under their Network Settings, and that's all that needs to be done.

If you would like to connect a 2-tuner Tivo or a 4-tuner basic Tivo Roamio to your MoCA network, follow the previous section's instructions on how to connect MoCA adapters to these Tivos.


POE FILTER:

It is recommended that you install a MoCA Point of Entry (POE) filter at your cable TV's point of entry in the home. This helps keep your MoCA signal strong, prevents it from exiting your home and potentially allowing neighbors access to your network, or creating interference with neighbor's services. They're $9 on Tivo.com and can also be purchased cheaply elsewhere (eBay, etc).

If you are a FiOS TV customer, a POE filter isn't necessary.


Tuning Adapters:

If your Tivo setup requires a Tuning Adapter supplied by the cableco, the below image shows the recommended setup to allow the tuning adapter and MoCA network to co-exist.

From the Splitter:
- 1 line goes to the Tuning Adapter, then connect the TA to the Tivo's USB port. Don't use the TA's RF-Out.
- The other line goes to the Tivo if it has built-in moca support, or to the MoCA adapter if your Tivo model needs one.





Most Common Problems:

The most common problems associated with MoCA are old or inadequate splitters, loss of internet connectivity, signal amplifiers (amps) somewhere on the line, and aged coax cabling.

At the very least, make sure all of the coax connection points are firm.

Splitters: In the event of signal issues (such as bad performance or devices not seeing each other), old or inadequate splitters are a common issue. Replace any old or inadequate splitters (rated less than 1000 MHz) with new splitters that are rated for 1000 MHz (1GHz) or higher.

Amps: Signal amps should be placed at the coax cable's point of entry in the house. However, sometimes they are not. Ideally the amp should be moved. But if that is too complicated, the amp should be rated to pass through signals of at least 1000 MHz (1GHz) bi-directionally. Replace if necessary.

Old coax: Very old and weathered/damaged coax cable and loose connection points might be to blame as well. These coax lines would have to be replaced with new coax.

Loss of internet connectivity: If you lose your internet connectivity when activating MoCA, install a MoCA POE filter on the coax right before your cable modem ($8 on ebay).

SDV Tuning Adapter malfunctions: If your SDV Tuning Adapter isn't working when activating MoCA, install a MoCA POE filter on the coax right before your Tuning Adapter ($8 on ebay).

NIM100 MoCA adapters: Older NIM100 MoCA adapters have been known to be incompatible with the built-in MoCA support of Tivo boxes. The "work-around" is to either not use the Tivo's integrated MoCA (use adapters instead) or replace the older NIM100's with newer adapters.


Pro Tip:

Using MoCA setup option #2? Connect your Smart TV, Blu-ray player, Roku, or other device to the Tivo's Ethernet port! Those devices can daisy chain off your Tivo's MoCA connection. (If you want to connect multiple devices, you can get a cheap Ethernet hub and plug it into the Tivo's port too.)


If there are ideas or things missed in the guide (but remember it's not a complete and total MoCA FAQ, just a setup guide) then post them here. I'll add them!

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 06-27-2014 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #2
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MoCa is a pretty simple setup. On the Mini it should be pretty much plug and play. For the Premiere 4/XL4 you have a few options....

If your router supports MoCa then you can just enable MoCa and both the Premiere and the Mini will talk directly to the router.

If your router does not support MoCa then you can either buy a MoCa bridge and install it near your router, which will allow both the Premiere and the Mini talk to the router. Or you can connect the Premiere to the router via Ethernet or Wifi and then enable MoCa bridging on the Premiere. For this scenario the Mini and Premiere will still talk to one another over MoCa, but all internet traffic will travel through the Premiere and to the router via the Ethernet or WiFi connection. This should still be a supported setup, even with WiFi, because only the internet traffic will be traveling over the WiFi connection. The actual streaming and UI portion of the Mini will be talking to the Premiere via MoCa.

One other thing to remember about MoCa is that it's always best to install a POE filter wherever the coax enters your house. This prevents the MoCa signal from leaking over to your neighbors and interfering with their signal or exposing your network to a potential security threat.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:39 PM   #3
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Very nicely done BigJim.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:46 PM   #4
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One other thing to remember about MoCa is that it's always best to install a POE filter wherever the coax enters your house. This prevents the MoCa signal from leaking over to your neighbors and interfering with their signal or exposing your network to a potential security threat.
I haven't set up MoCA yet, but might with the Mini. I have two separate cable entry points.

1) One goes to a distribution panel that feeds the coax network that the Minis will be on. An Elite will be the bridge to the LAN.

2) The other entry point goes to two Tivos that are hard wired to the LAN.

I know I need to put a filter on entry #1. Do I need one for entry #2?
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:03 PM   #5
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When I did my MoCA install, I found the above image from TiVo to be a little confusing in that it sort of implies that you need the MoCA adapter connected to your cable modem via coax. You don't. You just need to connect it to the cable plant and ethernet somewhere - it does not *need* to be connected to your cable modem.

I think they show it this way just because it's probably a common installation. Many people don't have ethernet ports available anywhere but their router, which is of course connected to their cable modem in the same room if they're using the cable company as their ISP. So they show the MoCA adapter being connected to the cable plant using the cable jack in that room. But of course the cable modem needs a connection to the cable plant too, so they use the coax out jack on the MoCA adapter to feed it coax.

I installed my MoCA adapter in a basement utility room far from my cable modem. In that room is my cable drop (with splitters galore) along with a 5-port ethernet switch that's connected to my home network. So I replaced a 3-way splitter down there with a 4-way and connected my MoCA adapter to it. I connected to Ethernet via the switch and everything worked like a charm.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Tuning Adapters:

This is the recommended setup method to getting a MoCA network working for those that have a cableco-supplied Tuning Adapter. A splitter is needed for the MoCA signal to bypass the Tuning Adapter.


Great info on the tuning adapter. I just got a letter last week informing me that Cox is implementing SDV in my area and I will need a tuning adapter to retain all my channels. So I take it from the diagram that tuning adapters won't pass a MoCA signal? Guess I'll be picking up another splitter.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:16 PM   #7
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I haven't set up MoCA yet, but might with the Mini. I have two separate cable entry points.

1) One goes to a distribution panel that feeds the coax network that the Minis will be on. An Elite will be the bridge to the LAN.

2) The other entry point goes to two Tivos that are hard wired to the LAN.

I know I need to put a filter on entry #1. Do I need one for entry #2?
But isn't there really a single point of entry somewhere further up the chain where those 2 cable entry points are split? Maybe in a box somewhere outside of your residence? I would think that would be where you want to install the POE filter.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #8
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But isn't there really a single point of entry somewhere further up the chain where those 2 cable entry points are split? Maybe in a box somewhere outside of your residence? I would think that would be where you want to install the POE filter.
There is. But it is in a locked box owned by Comcast I can't get to.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:42 PM   #9
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Great info on the tuning adapter. I just got a letter last week informing me that Cox is implementing SDV in my area and I will need a tuning adapter to retain all my channels. So I take it from the diagram that tuning adapters won't pass a MoCA signal? Guess I'll be picking up another splitter.
The pasthrough port on most TA is terrible and degrades the signal to the point where the TiVo has trouble tuning some channels let alone talking to MoCa. It's best to use a splitter like this for a TA even if you're not using MoCa.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #10
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There is. But it is in a locked box owned by Comcast I can't get to.
If you call them they'll probably come install one for you in that box. They don't want your MoCa signal interfering with your neighbors either.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:14 PM   #11
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The pasthrough port on most TA is terrible and degrades the signal to the point where the TiVo has trouble tuning some channels let alone talking to MoCa. It's best to use a splitter like this for a TA even if you're not using MoCa.
Good to know - will definitely use a splitter. I've been dreading SDV after reading some of the tuning adapter travails on this forum.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:33 AM   #12
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Ok Help me understand something here...

I currently have 3 regular Premieres... and 4 Moca Adaptors

1 Premiere is HW to the router, two have Moca Adaptors. One Moca adaptor is being used for a computer and 1 it plugged into the main router to "enable MOCA"...

So If i pick up a Premiere 4 and replace it with the one main Premiere that is HW to the router, i could enable the Moca Bridge and get rid of the one adaptor connected directly to the router?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #13
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So If i pick up a Premiere 4 and replace it with the one main Premiere that is HW to the router, i could enable the Moca Bridge and get rid of the one adaptor connected directly to the router?
Yes, both the Premiere 4 and XL4 can function as MoCA-to-ethernet bridges. The only caveat is that the bridge only operates when the Tivo is up, so while the Tivo bridge device is rebooting there will be no bridge between MoCA and ethernet.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:36 AM   #14
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Yes, both the Premiere 4 and XL4 can function as MoCA-to-ethernet bridges. The only caveat is that the bridge only operates when the Tivo is up, so while the Tivo bridge device is rebooting there will be no bridge between MoCA and ethernet.
He could always just replace one of his other Premieres with the P4 and still get rid of a MoCA adapter at that location - keeping the standalone MoCA adapter at his router as the bridge.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:01 AM   #15
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He could always just replace one of his other Premieres with the P4 and still get rid of a MoCA adapter at that location - keeping the standalone MoCA adapter at his router as the bridge.
True,

But if i can get rid of the adaptor at the router that would be better since it is split with the cable modem.

That is my LR Premiere so it is very rarely offline so the bridge being down is not an issue...

That P4 for 189 on Tivo.com is a great deal...
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #16
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Trying to set up a Tivo Premiere 4

But I have a cable box for on demand which I access from another HDMI connection and an Tuning adapter box to get premium channels. I have a moca connection for Tivo stream that needs to connect to the cable as well.
Any idea how to set up all of this?
Thank you!
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #17
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But I have a cable box for on demand which I access from another HDMI connection and an Tuning adapter box to get premium channels. I have a moca connection for Tivo stream that needs to connect to the cable as well.
Any idea how to set up all of this?
Thank you!
K
Is your setup on one TV? Do you have Ethernet to that location?

Why are you using Moca for the Stream? I would put the Stream next to your router and connect it with Ethernet.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:02 PM   #18
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I have xl4 and waiting to buy mini. I plan on buying a moca adapter since Ethernet to my xl4 is not convenient. I just moved into my new house. I plan on using bridge out of xl4 to connect my popbox media player to my network in order to stream my 1080p bluray remux's from my pc in the other room. I assume moca bridge from my xl4 bandwidth is capable of this. Cable guy wired all 4 of my rooms. He didn't know about moca or about Poe filters when i asked him about it. Mistakenly I failed to ask where I should place filter.
I live in a densely housed neighborhood but i don't think I'm worried about security. Should I be? Just as importantly- is working without a Poe filter disrupting my neighbors services? If so then as a good neighbor that's reason enough to buy one. Regarding Poe instal- should I call the installer and ask him if he remembers where it should go since he just wired my house 3 days ago. He was quite high in the trees on a telephone pole at one time. I don't have a ladder that high. Should I inspect the exterior of my house? What am I looking for? I know installer was under my house at one point. can I try without Poe filter? As I understand moca, it either works %100 or not at all. Is this right? Or would working without Poe result in choppy movie playback when bridging my popbox from my xl4 or show other signs of network reliability/performance issues?
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:16 PM   #19
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I have xl4 and waiting to buy mini. I plan on buying a moca adapter since Ethernet to my xl4 is not convenient. I just moved into my new house. I plan on using bridge out of xl4 to connect my popbox media player to my network in order to stream my 1080p bluray remux's from my pc in the other room. I assume moca bridge from my xl4 bandwidth is capable of this. Cable guy wired all 4 of my rooms. He didn't know about moca or about Poe filters when i asked him about it. Mistakenly I failed to ask where I should place filter.
I live in a densely housed neighborhood but i don't think I'm worried about security. Should I be? Just as importantly- is working without a Poe filter disrupting my neighbors services? If so then as a good neighbor that's reason enough to buy one. Regarding Poe instal- should I call the installer and ask him if he remembers where it should go since he just wired my house 3 days ago. He was quite high in the trees on a telephone pole at one time. I don't have a ladder that high. Should I inspect the exterior of my house? What am I looking for? I know installer was under my house at one point. can I try without Poe filter? As I understand moca, it either works %100 or not at all. Is this right? Or would working without Poe result in choppy movie playback when bridging my popbox from my xl4 or show other signs of network reliability/performance issues?
I would think your installer brought one cable to your house, then split off to the 4 rooms from there. The splitter may be inside your house or in a box outside, but it's probably not up in the trees. The input to that splitter is where you'd want to install your POE filter. And yes, you want one not just for security but to prevent signal leakage that could cause problems for your neighbors. It also supposedly improves MoCA network performance.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:36 PM   #20
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Loach beat me to it.

The POE filter should be installed on the input side of the splitter coming into you house.

coax to the home ---> POE filter > splitter.

Exactly where the splitter is, you can investigate by following where the coax enters your home from the utility pole, or following where all the coax in the rooms leads to. It's possibly under your house if you're willing to get dirty. Not convenient, but it can interfere with neighbors without it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:12 PM   #21
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Regarding the video outputs from the mini. The schematic shows a SINGLE out for component video. Is there some sort of mini plug that carries all three components? I've been unable to find such a cable. (I asked this question on the "mini lives" thread but it is buried)

I ask this because initially I will be hooking up the mini to a tv that does not have HDMI inputs.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:39 PM   #22
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Regarding the video outputs from the mini. The schematic shows a SINGLE out for component video. Is there some sort of mini plug that carries all three components?
Yes, there is a cable with a 3.5mm male plug on one end and a three tail split with female RGB plugs on the other end. Many newer TVs come with these now, especially the slimmer models.

I haven't looked, but suspect you can find these at Monoprice.com or similar places. I would also suspect that TiVo might sell this as an accessory once the Mini is released.
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Last edited by jfh3 : 03-11-2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: correct size of plug
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:35 AM   #23
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My setup has the cable from the street going to a splitter. One leg goes directly to the cable modem. Second leg goes to cable company installed amplifier/splitter. I have heard that MoCA signals will not pass through most amplifiers, so I haven't bothered to install a MoCA adapter at my router. Instead I am using my Elite to bridge a MoCA connection to my Premiere 4. I am wondering if I still need to install a POE filter since I have the amplifier in place that technically is not supposed to pass MoCA signals?
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:15 PM   #24
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I found this document helpful in getting familiar with MoCA as well:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vide.../4031235_B.pdf
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:06 AM   #25
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I found this document helpful in getting familiar with MoCA as well:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/vide.../4031235_B.pdf
That document is insightful but way over my head. I am feeding two Tivo's on the lower level and sending a signal up to a splitter to supply the bedrooms with MOCA. Has anyone found a multi-port splitter that will send MOCA to multiple rooms, and pass good video signal strength? I'm already using one splitter on the main level for MOCA. My two Minis should be here on Wednesday or Thursday from BB.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #26
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Loach beat me to it.

The POE filter should be installed on the input side of the splitter coming into you house.

coax to the home ---> POE filter > splitter.

Exactly where the splitter is, you can investigate by following where the coax enters your home from the utility pole, or following where all the coax in the rooms leads to. It's possibly under your house if you're willing to get dirty. Not convenient, but it can interfere with neighbors without it.
So the POE filter can attach directly to the input on the splitter?

I think thats what I'm reading but I just wanna make sure. Ordered my Mini and POE filter today from TiVo.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:27 PM   #27
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That document is insightful but way over my head. I am feeding two Tivo's on the lower level and sending a signal up to a splitter to supply the bedrooms with MOCA. Has anyone found a multi-port splitter that will send MOCA to multiple rooms, and pass good video signal strength? I'm already using one splitter on the main level for MOCA. My two Minis should be here on Wednesday or Thursday from BB.
I think most splitters will pass MoCA signals without problems. I'm using 5-2400 Mhz splitters but it's not necessary. You might run into problems if you have too many layers of splitters though.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #28
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So the POE filter can attach directly to the input on the splitter?

I think thats what I'm reading but I just wanna make sure. Ordered my Mini and POE filter today from TiVo.
Yes
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #29
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I think most splitters will pass MoCA signals without problems. I'm using 5-2400 Mhz splitters but it's not necessary. You might run into problems if you have too many layers of splitters though.
I have a high band splitter sending the signal to two Premieres downstairs and one feed to the attic, with no issues. From the attic, I would like to feed a premiere and more than two Minis, so I tried to use a 1x4 high band, it wouldn't work. It passed the MOCA but signal on Premiere #3 cablecard was zero. When I switched to a 1X2 1000mhz it worked. Again, albeit only for two rooms. I will try to find a 1x3 1000mhz to see if that will work.

Incoming feed>5-2400mhz splitter (1x2)>Premiere 1 & 5-2400 splitter (1X2)>Premiere 2 & attic>1000mhz splitter (1x2)>Living Room and 1 bedroom. Would like to change to 1X3 splitter to feed two bedrooms.

Any insight would be appreciated. I'll keep expreimenting with different splitters in the attic.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:26 PM   #30
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I think most splitters will pass MoCA signals without problems. I'm using 5-2400 Mhz splitters but it's not necessary. You might run into problems if you have too many layers of splitters though.
I having no problem going through two 4 way splitters to my amp.

Setup: 8 way output two way amp (Viewsonics VSMA608C-10R 8-Port), one of the outputs get the Moca directly from a TP-4 another amp output goes through 2, 4 way splitters and the Moca gets to a TP-4 at the end of the 2nd 4 way splitter. There is about 75 feet of RG6 on each run.
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