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Old 03-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by oregonalex View Post
I agree. Plus, I really can't wait any more. The audio/video glitches are getting really bad.

Have you installed it yet? Using WinMFS or something else? Any snags?
If you have a TCD658000, and it's running version 11.0k of the TiVo software, then you should be able to hook up both drives (to a non-GigaByte brand motherboard), open WinMFS, copy the stock drive to the EURS with mfscopy, increasing the swap partition size if you want to, and then click on mfsadd, and it'll fill the rest of that 2TB without any problem.

And you can supersize if you want.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #32
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If you have a TCD658000, and it's running version 11.0k of the TiVo software, then you should be able to hook up both drives (to a non-GigaByte brand motherboard), open WinMFS, copy the stock drive to the EURS with mfscopy, increasing the swap partition size if you want to, and then click on mfsadd, and it'll fill the rest of that 2TB without any problem.

And you can supersize if you want.
I was hoping to do this via a USB3.0->SATA adapter without having to hook it to the motherboard. I don't really care about the saved recordings. BTW, can't you do a full (non-truncated) backup from the original drive to the PC drive, then mount the replacement drive and restore the backup? I have 1.5TB free on the PC internal drive.

I may be off base, but this is a concern I have about using the 2TB: The FAQ states that only non-expanded image can be used for transfer to the new 2TB drive. So, say I transfer it, and 3 years from now the new 2TB drive also starts to sputter and I need to do another transfer. Would I be able to transfer the new (expanded) drive to yet another drive?

This is really a minefield...
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #33
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I was hoping to do this via a USB3.0->SATA adapter without having to hook it to the motherboard. I don't really care about the saved recordings. BTW, can't you do a full (non-truncated) backup from the original drive to the PC drive, then mount the replacement drive and restore the backup? I have 1.5TB free on the PC internal drive.

I may be off base, but this is a concern I have about using the 2TB: The FAQ states that only non-expanded image can be used for transfer to the new 2TB drive. So, say I transfer it, and 3 years from now the new 2TB drive also starts to sputter and I need to do another transfer. Would I be able to transfer the new (expanded) drive to yet another drive?

This is really a minefield...
So far the biggest drive that a TiVo will even boot with, regardless of how much of it is actually used or how big its partition map thinks it is, is 2TB.

I'm not absolutely certain if that's a hardware, i.e., motherboard, issue, or just that the Linux kernel the TiVo software uses can only count that high, but the hardware's not going to change and the software's not going to undergo as radical a re-write as would be needed to change the kernel that much, at least not on S3s and older for sure, and probably not on S4s.

So don't expect to ever use anything bigger than a 2TB in your S3.

So all you would be able to do is use one of the Linux command line utilities* to "Xerox" that 2TB to another 2TB, or restore a truncated backup (all settings, but no recordings) to a new 2TB and then expand.

In theory you could, if your Linux-Fu is strong, do a compressed backup of the 658's entire 1TB drive, recordings and all, but it wouldn't be compressed much.

You can do a WinMFS copy from the 1TB to the 2TB via USB adapter, but of course you'll need 2 of them and 2 available USB ports on the PC.

To do it with only one, and to backup the entire 1TB drive, including recordings, and then restore that to a 2TB before expanding, you would have to use the MFS Live bootable cd and do it on the command line, and have lots of space on your PC's hard drive.

That's in theory. I can't swear that it'll handle a file that large.

You should go to mfslive.org and do lots and lots of reading and then read it all again.

(MFS Live and the old MFS Tools backups are not interchangeable with WinMFS backups--neither can understand the other)

If you don't need to save your recordings (or if you can copy them all off to PC using TiVo Desktop or pyTiVo or something), then you can do it all with WinMFS and one adapter by doing a truncated backup of the 1TB to some space (under 1GB) on your PC's hard drive, and then swapping out the 1TB and swapping in the 2TB and restoring the backup, which will fill 1TB of the 2TB, and then using mfsadd to expand into the rest of the 2TB.

*The MFS Live cd, v1.4, has both

dd

and

dd_rescue

either of which will do a byte for byte "Xerox" of one drive to another of equal or greater size.

I prefer

dd_rescue

because you can get it to show you what it's doing and it has options that could help copy from a failing drive where the more primitive

dd

would fail.


There's also

ddrescue

which is similar to dd_rescue and available on other bootable Linux based cds.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #34
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I agree. Plus, I really can't wait any more. The audio/video glitches are getting really bad.

Have you installed it yet? Using WinMFS or something else? Any snags?
I haven't installed it yet. I have done the WD Diagnostics extended test, which is recommended on any drive before putting it in a TiVo.

I am planning to use WinMFS but what's possible and what's best depends on several factors. Some upgrades can't be done with just WinMFS and sometimes another approach is better even if WinMFS could be used. Read the last few pages of the sticky thread on Drive expansion, then post your specific situation to get more specific advice.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:20 PM   #35
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Thanks guys for the replies.

I think I should have been more clear about my situation:

Yes, I have TiVo HD XL TCD 658000 with lifetime, over 3 years old, original drive. The video dropouts and audio screeches have been getting more and more frequent, now are untenable. I use the unit very sparingly, I don't use Tivo recommendations, only record a few programs a week for time shifting, so increasing the size of the drive is of no benefit to me.

I just need to replace the drive with a drive that is just as quiet as the original, with minimum fuss and expense. I don't care about losing recordings, season passes or other settings. I currently have no drive, no USB->SATA adapter, no spare SATA cables. I have no Linux experience, but fair amount of PC/Windows experience. I would, however, prefer not to have to open and connect anything to my PC motherboard, and would like to install as few utilities on my PC as possible.

Option A: Buy a 1TB from dvrstore.com already set up. This would work for me, provided dvrstore.com is reputable and sells new, not refurb drives.

Option B: Take a risk on the WD10EURX. If it goes well, it would be the cheapest option even with buying a USB->SATA adapter. Plus, I could buy another drive, set it up now and keep it in reserve for the next failure. It is possible that suitable replacement drives will be even harder to get in the future.

Option C: Get the WD20EURS, which hopefully would work more likely than option B. I'd also have to buy at least a USB->SATA adapter, which means this option is almost as expensive as Option A, but with much more hassle.

If you were me, which one would you choose?
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:27 PM   #36
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Thanks guys for the replies.

I think I should have been more clear about my situation:

Yes, I have TiVo HD XL TCD 658000 with lifetime, over 3 years old, original drive. The video dropouts and audio screeches have been getting more and more frequent, now are untenable. I use the unit very sparingly, I don't use Tivo recommendations, only record a few programs a week for time shifting, so increasing the size of the drive is of no benefit to me.

I just need to replace the drive with a drive that is just as quiet as the original, with minimum fuss and expense. I don't care about losing recordings, season passes or other settings. I currently have no drive, no USB->SATA adapter, no spare SATA cables. I have no Linux experience, but fair amount of PC/Windows experience. I would, however, prefer not to have to open and connect anything to my PC motherboard, and would like to install as few utilities on my PC as possible.

Option A: Buy a 1TB from dvrstore.com already set up. This would work for me, provided dvrstore.com is reputable and sells new, not refurb drives.

Option B: Take a risk on the WD10EURX. If it goes well, it would be the cheapest option even with buying a USB->SATA adapter. Plus, I could buy another drive, set it up now and keep it in reserve for the next failure. It is possible that suitable replacement drives will be even harder to get in the future.

Option C: Get the WD20EURS, which hopefully would work more likely than option B. I'd also have to buy at least a USB->SATA adapter, which means this option is almost as expensive as Option A, but with much more hassle.

If you were me, which one would you choose?

Option C:

3 year warranty, better GB/$ ratio and it's specifically designed to be an A/V drive and a bunch of us are running them in S3s and S4s successfully.

But as with any drive from any manufacturer purchased from anywhere, run the manufacturer's diagnostics long test before putting the drive into service.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:44 PM   #37
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Option C:

3 year warranty, better GB/$ ratio and it's specifically designed to be an A/V drive and a bunch of us are running them in S3s and S4s successfully.

But as with any drive from any manufacturer purchased from anywhere, run the manufacturer's diagnostics long test before putting the drive into service.
Understood. The previous reports of success is what will probably sway me towards it, because the higher price & capacity, even with the better GB/$, is a negative for me.

The WD10EURX, however, also has 3 year warranty and is specifically designed to be an A/V drive. The only difference on the spec sheet besides capacity is slightly bigger power consumption for the WD10EURX.

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/librar...879-701250.pdf
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:55 PM   #38
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Understood. The previous reports of success is what will probably sway me towards it, because the higher price & capacity, even with the better GB/$, is a negative for me.

The WD10EURX, however, also has 3 year warranty and is specifically designed to be an A/V drive. The only difference on the spec sheet besides capacity is slightly bigger power consumption for the WD10EURX.

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/librar...879-701250.pdf
Have you found any reports of anyone using the WD20EURS and having it not succeed other than a few the other day where running the long test revealed that the drives were actually faulty out of the box?
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:10 PM   #39
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Have you found any reports of anyone using the WD20EURS and having it not succeed other than a few the other day where running the long test revealed that the drives were actually faulty out of the box?
No, it seems to work reliably for everyone, that's why I'm leaning towards it, even though it is more money (as I said, I don't care about the larger capacity). I have found at least three reports of success and two reports of non-success with WD10EURX. It bugs me a bit - the drives should both work - they are both A/V drives from the same family. Maybe the reason is that knowledgeable people pick the WD20EURS to begin with, so the success rate is higher. There is actually also a WD10EUCX with a smaller cache (which does not matter in Tivo), which should also work. Even cheaper.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:18 PM   #40
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The ones that end in X are newer models than the ones that end in S.

Considering that the S3 TiVos themselves are older tech, the older drive may be more compatible.

The EURS doesn't have to autonegotiate down to 3Gb/s, it's already there, so that's one thing fewer to go wrong.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:24 PM   #41
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The ones that end in X are newer models than the ones that end in S.

Considering that the S3 TiVos themselves are older tech, the older drive may be more compatible.

The EURS doesn't have to autonegotiate down to 3Gb/s, it's already there, so that's one thing fewer to go wrong.
You are right, of course! I completely missed the max host speed difference on the specs. That sure could explain it!
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:51 AM   #42
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I agree. Plus, I really can't wait any more. The audio/video glitches are getting really bad.
One thing I would definitely check are the capacitors on the power supply and replace those that are even slightly bulging.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:06 AM   #43
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Thanks guys for the replies.

I think I should have been more clear about my situation:

Yes, I have TiVo HD XL TCD 658000 with lifetime, over 3 years old, original drive. The video dropouts and audio screeches have been getting more and more frequent, now are untenable. I use the unit very sparingly, I don't use Tivo recommendations, only record a few programs a week for time shifting, so increasing the size of the drive is of no benefit to me.

I just need to replace the drive with a drive that is just as quiet as the original, with minimum fuss and expense. I don't care about losing recordings, season passes or other settings. I currently have no drive, no USB->SATA adapter, no spare SATA cables. I have no Linux experience, but fair amount of PC/Windows experience. I would, however, prefer not to have to open and connect anything to my PC motherboard, and would like to install as few utilities on my PC as possible.

Option A: Buy a 1TB from dvrstore.com already set up. This would work for me, provided dvrstore.com is reputable and sells new, not refurb drives.

Option B: Take a risk on the WD10EURX. If it goes well, it would be the cheapest option even with buying a USB->SATA adapter. Plus, I could buy another drive, set it up now and keep it in reserve for the next failure. It is possible that suitable replacement drives will be even harder to get in the future.

Option C: Get the WD20EURS, which hopefully would work more likely than option B. I'd also have to buy at least a USB->SATA adapter, which means this option is almost as expensive as Option A, but with much more hassle.

If you were me, which one would you choose?
dvrstore.com is new to me. What is their reputation? How long have they been in business? My thought would have been DVR_DUDE on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/dvr_dude/m.html
He does have a good rep on this forum. His price for your 1 TB drive is 10+ dollars less than dvrstore.com.

Given your stated situation and preferences, I think Option A is the best one for you.

Maybe I missed it earlier in this thread but have you checked signal strength and SNR in DVR Diagnostics? And the suggestion to look for bulging capacitors in your power supply is worth considering.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:30 PM   #44
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dvrstore.com is new to me. What is their reputation? How long have they been in business? My thought would have been DVR_DUDE on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/dvr_dude/m.html
He does have a good rep on this forum. His price for your 1 TB drive is 10+ dollars less than dvrstore.com.

Given your stated situation and preferences, I think Option A is the best one for you.

Maybe I missed it earlier in this thread but have you checked signal strength and SNR in DVR Diagnostics? And the suggestion to look for bulging capacitors in your power supply is worth considering.
Thanks. According to one of the threads here, dvrstore.com is dvr_dude's off-eBay site. On eBay, he does not seem to list a 1TB for the 658000. Also, I wonder if WD would honor the warranty if the drive is bought from him - he sells a 'warranty' for another $26.

And the bloody capacitors. I thought failed caps would prevent booting. I will open the DVR tonight and check the stuff. Hopefully nothing's bulging or, <gasp>, leaking.

I did check the signal. It is as it has always been when no problems were present (93-100). SNR 33-34 dB. I'm off the air.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #45
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Capacitor problems in the power supply can, and often do, produce all sorts of strange symptoms that do not at first blush appear to be power supply related.

But anyone who owns an S2 or S3 and is taking the lid off for anything is foolish not to play the odds and check the power supply, both visually and ideally with a voltmeter as well.

Unless they have an oscilloscope handy.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:08 PM   #46
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Thanks. According to one of the threads here, dvrstore.com is dvr_dude's off-eBay site. On eBay, he does not seem to list a 1TB for the 658000. Also, I wonder if WD would honor the warranty if the drive is bought from him - he sells a 'warranty' for another $26.
Even if WD honors it, the warranty "clock" starts when he purchases the drive and is usually shorter for drives purchased in bulk as opposed to a retail purchase.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #47
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Even if WD honors it, the warranty "clock" starts when he purchases the drive and is usually shorter for drives purchased in bulk as opposed to a retail purchase.
Plus, that'll be an OEM warranty, as in the party responsible for the warranty is whoever bought a bunch of them wholesale from, in this case, WD, just like if you contact a drive maker about the stock drive in your TiVo they'll tell you to talk to TiVo about it and not them.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:28 AM   #48
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Even slight bulging of caps is bad, here is a photo:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...94#post8750894
See post #2 in linked thread.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:44 AM   #49
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Thanks. According to one of the threads here, dvrstore.com is dvr_dude's off-eBay site. On eBay, he does not seem to list a 1TB for the 658000.
........
Is a 1 or 2 TB plugin drive for a 658 going to be different than those for a 652?
You could ask him that.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:35 AM   #50
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Is a 1 or 2 TB plugin drive for a 658 going to be different than those for a 652?
You could ask him that.
Well, I've opened the Tivo. All caps are perfectly flat.
So I went crazy and ordered a WD20EURS and a USB-SATA adapter. I hope I can get it set up and it fixes the problems. I will report back.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:27 AM   #51
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Would the Western Digital WD AV-GP WD10EURX be the choice for a TCD652160 since the regular HD model can't use the full 2TB drive?
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:23 PM   #52
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Would the Western Digital WD AV-GP WD10EURX be the choice for a TCD652160 since the regular HD model can't use the full 2TB drive?
Both the S3 OLED and the Tivo HD can now fully use the 2TB drive.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #53
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Well, I've opened the Tivo. All caps are perfectly flat.
So I went crazy and ordered a WD20EURS and a USB-SATA adapter.
Sorry for quoting myself. I am paranoid and can't stop thinking about future doom . I.e. what I'll do when the replacement drive also fails down the road.
If I succeed with this replacement, I plan to buy another 2TB drive for future use soon. Then I could:

Option 1: Set it up from the original 1TB drive WinMFS truncated backup. I would lose all settings and passes that I'll make in the future. But it is very likely to work.

Option 2: As unitron suggested earlier, the failing 2TB drive could be then copied in Linux to another 2TB drive. I'm not all that sure about this one. I think you have to be a Stud Hombre Cybermuffin to work in Linux.

Option 3: Create a new WinMFS truncated backup of the failing 2TB drive and restore it to the next 2TB drive.

Would Option 3 work if the source drive is an expanded 2TB drive? What if I DON'T expand the 2TB drive I'm setting up now and use it as a 1TB and leave the rest of the space fallow? Would the truncated backup from it work then?
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:54 PM   #54
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Season passes are (or can be) stored on the tivo server. Won't those automatically be restored to an updated drive, even if the update was truncated?

Even if it will work, I don't see the advantage of Option 3 over Option 1. In fact if the 2 TB is actually "failing" you might not get a good backup from it.

I'm curious about Option 2, also. I know I've seen somewhat detailed instructions for this scattered around the forum. I wonder if you can have problems with such a byte-for-byte copy if the destination drive has a few less bytes total capacity (although both drives are nominally 2 TB)?
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:11 PM   #55
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Season passes are (or can be) stored on the tivo server. Won't those automatically be restored to an updated drive, even if the update was truncated?

Even if it will work, I don't see the advantage of Option 3 over Option 1. In fact if the 2 TB is actually "failing" you might not get a good backup from it.

I'm curious about Option 2, also. I know I've seen somewhat detailed instructions for this scattered around the forum. I wonder if you can have problems with such a byte-for-byte copy if the destination drive has a few less bytes total capacity (although both drives are nominally 2 TB)?
As long as they have the same LBA number, which drives of the same advertised capacity tend to do these days, unlike during the S2 era where the Maxtors were a little "fat", you can use

dd

or

dd_rescue

(both available on the MFS Live cd v1.4, among other places)

or

ddrescue

(which I'm pretty sure is what's on the jmfs cd, as well as also being available elsewhere)

and "Xerox" with no problem (although 2TB will take a while) as long as neither drive has any problems.


As far as I know, WinMFS should be able to mfscopy from one 2TB to another, it just won't be able to expand.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Season passes are (or can be) stored on the tivo server. Won't those automatically be restored to an updated drive, even if the update was truncated?
To get season passes off the Tivo, you have to be willing to loosen your privacy setting. That I am not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Even if it will work, I don't see the advantage of Option 3 over Option 1. In fact if the 2 TB is actually "failing" you might not get a good backup from it.
If I am not mistaken, season passes and settings are on the hard drive and are a part of the WinMFS truncated backup. Only the actual recordings are not.

Whether you can get a good backup or not depends on how badly the drive is clobbered. A few failed sectors here and there in recordings do not necessarily prevent a successful backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
I'm curious about Option 2, also. I know I've seen somewhat detailed instructions for this scattered around the forum. I wonder if you can have problems with such a byte-for-byte copy if the destination drive has a few less bytes total capacity (although both drives are nominally 2 TB)?
Yes, I wonder too how such a copy handles failed sectors on either drive.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
Both the S3 OLED and the Tivo HD can now fully use the 2TB drive.
So what would be the preferred drive for the HD units now then? Is there anything special you have to do for the unit to reconize the full 2TB?
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:45 PM   #58
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So what would be the preferred drive for the HD units now then? Is there anything special you have to do for the unit to reconize the full 2TB?
WD20EURS for as close to $100 including any taxes and shipping as you can get it.

After putting it through WD's diagnostics long test just to be sure it didn't borked bouncing around in the truck, use WinMFS to copy the original drive to it and then expand.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #59
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So what would be the preferred drive for the HD units now then? Is there anything special you have to do for the unit to reconize the full 2TB?
Oooopsies!

Left out that the drive to be copied needs to have the latest version of the TiVo software, 11.0k on it (that's the latest version here in the US).

And when I say latest I mean of course the one that's been out for quite some time now, and is probably the last time it'll ever be updated.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:11 PM   #60
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Is the WD20EARS ok? I have one sitting in a box on the shelf.
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