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Old 02-27-2013, 02:28 PM   #91
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Revolution has only 10 episodes left of a 20 episode order this year. If they would have run it for the 4 weeks in February, that would have left them with only 6 more new episodes to span the next 12 weeks to make it through May sweeps.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:12 PM   #92
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TV is going away from the 22 episode season spread over 4 sweeps periods. People just don't watch reruns anymore.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:23 PM   #93
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TV is going away from the 22 episode season spread over 4 sweeps periods. People just don't watch reruns anymore.
Do networks even run them much any more? Like the entire season ? They only seem to do a few episodes here or there.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:51 PM   #94
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Why did they cancel Law & Order (the original).

L&O:LA was managed so badly IMO. I eventually gave up with that one...
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:30 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Polcamilla View Post
The network schedules and sweeps times are based on a knowledge of when people watch televison and when they're too busy doing other stuff.
You're seriously trying to play the live TV card... in a Tivo forum?
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM   #96
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Actually, I was talking about the IGN podcast Channel Surfing. They just seem to talk about the kinds of shows I watch. Stuff on HBO, Showtime, sitcoms, etc... There isn't any talk of procedurals or reality or whatever else I'm not into.

I also like their movie podcast Keepin it Reel. There again they talk about movies I watch, like super heroes and action and etc...

IGN is probably aimed at a younger audience and I have a child-like mind when it comes to TV and movies.

I'll give that Firewall podcast a try. I listen to way too many video game and tech podcasts. I could use more TV and movie podcasts.
Sounds like you might like the Television Zombies podcast.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by billypritchard View Post
TV is going away from the 22 episode season spread over 4 sweeps periods. People just don't watch reruns anymore.
I really hate the gaps between shows. PBS is just nuts now. This Old House is essentially a DVR show now because they spread the 22 episodes over a complete year. I never really know when its on.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #98
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USA managed to carve a niche for itself by having fun, fairly fluffly programing that people could watch during these "dead" zones. Occasionally, the networks have experimented with putting a show on in these slots to get attention and then moving it to the "regular" schedule once it's established (Fox did this with The O.C. and Glee both. I think WB does it pretty regularly, but I don't follow any shows on the WB well enough to say for certain that this is the case. ) But realistically, even if NBC tried to compete with USA at this point, quite frankly, USA has better programming.
Two comments:

1. The WB hasn't existed for several years.

2. NBC and USA are both part of the NBCUniversal family, owned by Comcast.

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Revolution has only 10 episodes left of a 20 episode order this year. If they would have run it for the 4 weeks in February, that would have left them with only 6 more new episodes to span the next 12 weeks to make it through May sweeps.
Two comments:

1. Where did you hear it's only a 20-episode order? Even if that were the original plan, it would surprise me if NBC didn't order more episodes after the show did so well at the beginning of the fall.

2. All the other networks are able to take 22 episodes and manage to show them during all three in-season sweeps periods. Even if Revolution only has 20 episodes, NBC still should have been able to find a way to air some episodes during both February and May sweeps.
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TV is going away from the 22 episode season spread over 4 sweeps periods. People just don't watch reruns anymore.
What does this have to do with the discussion we're having? Nobody is advocating that NBC should be airing reruns of their programs. And you're welcome to think that sweeps periods don't matter anymore, but you'd be dead wrong. They're still very important to the networks, the affiliates, and the advertisers. And it's a huge black eye on NBC that they just had the worst network sweeps period in history.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:28 PM   #99
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You're seriously trying to play the live TV card... in a Tivo forum?
No, but the networks have NOT adjusted to the business model of DVRs and on-demand. All of them are struggling with the economics of it and most of them are desperately trying to avoid making any changes to the broadcast model that has served them so well for decades.

I can't say that NBC's woes are reflective of this as their model seems to show the business acumen of a crackhead, but NBC is failing miserably at the traditional model and not, for example, failing in innovative efforts to move away from that model.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:31 PM   #100
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Two comments:

1. The WB hasn't existed for several years.
Fair point. I pay it so little attention, but it's the CW now. I forget where the C came from but recall it making sense at the time.

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2. NBC and USA are both part of the NBCUniversal family, owned by Comcast.
Then Comcast seriously needs to swap executives between the two networks as NBC should be the higher dollar value property and USA seems to have the lion's share of management talent.

I know Disney experimented with swapping executive between divisions. It didn't work so well, but I think the idea has merit.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:39 PM   #101
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Why did they cancel Law & Order (the original).

L&O:LA was managed so badly IMO. I eventually gave up with that one...
It had run for 20 seasons (years) and was costing too much to produce for the ratings it was generating.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:42 PM   #102
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Two comments:

1. Where did you hear it's only a 20-episode order? Even if that were the original plan, it would surprise me if NBC didn't order more episodes after the show did so well at the beginning of the fall.

It was cut from 22 to 20.


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2. All the other networks are able to take 22 episodes and manage to show them during all three in-season sweeps periods. Even if Revolution only has 20 episodes, NBC still should have been able to find a way to air some episodes during both February and May sweeps.
This goes back to the point of NBC making sure Revolution was tied to the hip of The Voice. They kind of had to hold back The Voice for a little while to avoid burning out the audience which meant Revolution had to be held back too. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but it is what it is. NBC obviously believes that Revolution is not strong enough to stand on its own and having it fall during sweeps was a worse option then not having it at all.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:52 PM   #103
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Interesting. Thanks for the link.

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This goes back to the point of NBC making sure Revolution was tied to the hip of The Voice. They kind of had to hold back The Voice for a little while to avoid burning out the audience which meant Revolution had to be held back too. I'm not saying it was a good idea, but it is what it is. NBC obviously believes that Revolution is not strong enough to stand on its own and having it fall during sweeps was a worse option then not having it at all.
I'm not saying there wasn't some potential logic to the decision. But it only makes sense if NBC has something else to air during Feb. sweeps to get ratings. As it turns out, they didn't, and now they look stupid.

However, given how poorly the rest of their schedule has done, they were probably smart to hold Revolution until The Voice comes back, as I'm sure Revolution on its own would have been getting similar ratings to the rest of the stuff on NBC during February. Viewers are simply out of the habit of going to NBC, and so it perpetuates the problem.

The only real question is whether it was wise to hold The Voice back until late March. Presumably they didn't want to compete with the early episodes of Idol, and didn't want people to get burned out on a second season of The Voice starting so soon after the previous one finished. Perhaps viewers will get burned out anyway and the extra six weeks wouldn't have made a difference. But I don't think it could have done any worse in February than the other stuff they decided to air.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:55 PM   #104
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Fair point. I pay it so little attention, but it's the CW now. I forget where the C came from but recall it making sense at the time.
CBS. The CW originated as a conjoined entity of the former WB (owned by Warner Brothers) and the former UPN (owned by Paramount Television, which became part of CBS). It remains co-owned by the two entities.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:25 PM   #105
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I think most folks see that 'sweeps' periods are a thing of the past, at least on the national level.
You may think that, but since commercials pay for TV shows, and the commercial rates (how much they pay the networks to air their commercials) are set by the ratings during sweeps… they're still important for the people who pay the bills.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:50 PM   #106
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You may think that, but since commercials pay for TV shows, and the commercial rates (how much they pay the networks to air their commercials) are set by the ratings during sweeps… they're still important for the people who pay the bills.
Sweeps ratings only affect local ad rates, not national rates.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:08 AM   #107
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Why did they cancel Law & Order (the original).
This was a bonehead move on their part. The show had solid ratings and does well in syndication. There's a bunch of dummies running this network. Myself, I have literally never seen an episode of the show but it is always seemed like a CBS-type show and we all know how well those do.

I never understood how a show like NCIS is the number one show on television. I realize I am not in this shows demographic but I have never heard anyone talk about a single episode of this show in real life. Something just seems very off.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #108
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Do networks even run them much any more? Like the entire season ? They only seem to do a few episodes here or there.
The only network shows I can think of that show reruns "on a regular basis" (not counting filler on Saturday nights) are Cops and Fox's animated shows. Also remember that, with things like On Demand, plus the fact that most TV series release seasons on DVD pretty much right after the season ends (the main exception I can think of: The Simpsons, which is about eight years behind), there isn't really a need for networks to show repeats.

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Sweeps ratings only affect local ad rates, not national rates.
Wasn't there a time when one of the months (February, I want to say) was used in part for national ad rates? Then again, I also remember discussions about how national rates are set in part by season-long network ratings; one year, in the late 1970s, ABC had a number of season premieres the week before CBS and NBC did, and used that as the starting date of its season to claim that its average rating was tied with CBS for #1, so it could justify charging as much for ads as CBS did.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #109
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That's WAY beyond poor strategic planning. That's, like, USA Network strategy (where they deliberately try to put on new content when everyone else is in reruns). This works well for USA because it's a cable channel, but you CANNOT run a network that way. The network schedules and sweeps times are based on a knowledge of when people watch televison and when they're too busy doing other stuff. In the summer, people get busy with graduations, weddings, vacations, and general summer-type stuff that is likely to disrupt the faithful weekly routine of sitting down to watch a show. Similarly, people are usually too busy over the holidays with family events, travel, and such.

USA managed to carve a niche for itself by having fun, fairly fluffly programing that people could watch during these "dead" zones. Occasionally, the networks have experimented with putting a show on in these slots to get attention and then moving it to the "regular" schedule once it's established (Fox did this with The O.C. and Glee both. I think WB does it pretty regularly, but I don't follow any shows on the WB well enough to say for certain that this is the case. ) But realistically, even if NBC tried to compete with USA at this point, quite frankly, USA has better programming.

So this leaves us with the question: What the heck is NBC doing blowing off February sweeps and not showing signs of ANY coherent strategy to attract viewers? Why the random hiatuses when they have nothing in the pipeline to fill up that empty time and attract viewers??

Either the network heads are less competent than your average McDonald's employee or they're deliberately trying to sink the network for some reason.
I find it interesting that USA ran a lot of first run episodes of some of their hit shows (Necessary Roughness and White Collar for example) during February sweeps.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #110
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No, but the networks have NOT adjusted to the business model of DVRs and on-demand. All of them are struggling with the economics of it and most of them are desperately trying to avoid making any changes to the broadcast model that has served them so well for decades.

I can't say that NBC's woes are reflective of this as their model seems to show the business acumen of a crackhead, but NBC is failing miserably at the traditional model and not, for example, failing in innovative efforts to move away from that model.
On this note, do we have any evidence that NBC shows do well, or better than other networks, on the +2s (or whatever it's called)? Perhaps NBC's problem is people aren't watching their stuff live, but they are watching it at some point down the line. That kind of changes the way we look at this.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:16 AM   #111
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Interesting. Thanks for the link.


I'm not saying there wasn't some potential logic to the decision. But it only makes sense if NBC has something else to air during Feb. sweeps to get ratings. As it turns out, they didn't, and now they look stupid.

However, given how poorly the rest of their schedule has done, they were probably smart to hold Revolution until The Voice comes back, as I'm sure Revolution on its own would have been getting similar ratings to the rest of the stuff on NBC during February. Viewers are simply out of the habit of going to NBC, and so it perpetuates the problem.
To me that's the crux of the problem. How do you get people to tune in to NBC again?
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:18 AM   #112
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CBS. The CW originated as a conjoined entity of the former WB (owned by Warner Brothers) and the former UPN (owned by Paramount Television, which became part of CBS). It remains co-owned by the two entities.
Is the CW making money? Based on the ratings they might be better off killing the experiment.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:21 AM   #113
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You may think that, but since commercials pay for TV shows, and the commercial rates (how much they pay the networks to air their commercials) are set by the ratings during sweeps… they're still important for the people who pay the bills.
Perhaps what he's getting at is, that the functional role that "sweeps" played is outdated as people viewing habits have changed. That the networks / affiliates / advertisers still use it as the "bible" that sets ad rates might be a flawed concept.

Or maybe not. I don't have the raw data that shows that those are STILL peak viewing times.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #114
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To me that's the crux of the problem. How do you get people to tune in to NBC again?
Good question. The hiatus is one thing that gets me OUT of the habit of turning to a station. When Revolution was on, I was watching NBC. Now, I'm either watching something else, watching a recorded non-PrimeTime show, or futzing around online. Will I return to NBC when they bring Revolution back? Don't know, but the odds are much lower than they would be if I'd been watching it these last months.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:51 AM   #115
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Good question. The hiatus is one thing that gets me OUT of the habit of turning to a station. When Revolution was on, I was watching NBC. Now, I'm either watching something else, watching a recorded non-PrimeTime show, or futzing around online. Will I return to NBC when they bring Revolution back? Don't know, but the odds are much lower than they would be if I'd been watching it these last months.
I watch NBC, because many of their shows appeal to me, and I'm not a network centric kind of guy. I don't watch too much on CBS simply because their shows don't appeal to me. But I will give just about any show on any network, cable or broadcast if the show appeals to me. But, I guess that's not the case for most people.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:32 AM   #116
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I watch NBC, because many of their shows appeal to me, and I'm not a network centric kind of guy. I don't watch too much on CBS simply because their shows don't appeal to me. But I will give just about any show on any network, cable or broadcast if the show appeals to me. But, I guess that's not the case for most people.
The part I bolded is the killer. Right now, there's not much on NBC that appeals to me. And nothing that's currently airing. I don't really care what network a show is on. I do look for shows on the Big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX), but that's mainly because it's easier to look at 4 channels than 400 (or is it up to 4,000 by now? )
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:18 AM   #117
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The part I bolded is the killer. Right now, there's not much on NBC that appeals to me. And nothing that's currently airing. I don't really care what network a show is on. I do look for shows on the Big 4 (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX), but that's mainly because it's easier to look at 4 channels than 400 (or is it up to 4,000 by now? )
I'm kind of the same way with CBS. I think it's only 5 shows on CBS now and two are reality, Survivor and The Amazing Race. The other three, BBT and HIMYM are sitcoms and only one drama, The Good Wife.

The thing about NBC is that they aren't strictly sticking to formula (and maybe that's the problem). I tend to give their shows a shot, mostly for that reason.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:28 AM   #118
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The only network shows I can think of that show reruns "on a regular basis" (not counting filler on Saturday nights) are Cops and Fox's animated shows. Also remember that, with things like On Demand, plus the fact that most TV series release seasons on DVD pretty much right after the season ends (the main exception I can think of: The Simpsons, which is about eight years behind), there isn't really a need for networks to show repeats.
Castle and Modern Family very definitely show reruns during their regular timeslot during the year.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #119
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I watch NBC, because many of their shows appeal to me, and I'm not a network centric kind of guy. I don't watch too much on CBS simply because their shows don't appeal to me. But I will give just about any show on any network, cable or broadcast if the show appeals to me. But, I guess that's not the case for most people.
I agree. I still watch most of the Thursday night lineup. Now that 30 Rock is gone and The Office is almost over, I have no idea what will happen next year. Parks and Rec isn't strong enough to carry the night with three new shows.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:07 PM   #120
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One thing I was thinking of, since we see consolidations happening in the Airlines for instance, would be the feasibility of one network buying another....say CBS buying NBC, and doing to it something similar to what has happened in cable, begin to niche the network. I'm thinking something similar to how Time-Warner made TBS their comedy network and TNT their drama one. Imagine of CBS became drama only and NBC their sitcom network. Obviously I doubt this will happen in the near future.

And I'm not even sure if it's allowed by FCC rules. Back MANY years ago, in the days of radio, NBC once owned ABC (it was called the NBC Blue network and NBC Red Network if I got my history right). They were forced to spin them off for anti-trust reasons. But I know that a lot of FCC rules have been loosened.
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