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Old 02-27-2013, 03:18 PM   #1201
jcthorne
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
Great!

I was hoping a subbed Premiere would eventually be able to function just like a Mini at some point (I can not test as I only have one Premiere) can you change the channel on the remote Premiere and do you have fully control of the remote tuner?
You can call up the remote guide and schedule a recording, I'll have to try the ch up and ch dn buttons to see.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:23 PM   #1202
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Hello
I have been watching from the sidelines and waiting anxiously for more TiVo Mini information to be released. I am a current FiOS customer and I pay $39.99/month for the FiOS multi-room DVR package for 3 rooms. The DVR I have is the 2 tuner QIP7232 and it has a 500GB HDD with the ability to attach up to a 2TB external HDD. This setup has been adequate, but I have often wished the DVR could record more than 2 programs at the same time. I have also been hoping to ditch the monthly DVR “tax” that I pay so I began looking at TiVo and the now scrapped Ceton Q + Echo solutions.

I am sad to say that I do not believe TiVo has won me over as a new customer with their pricing. As I see it, the breakeven point for me to ditch the FiOS gear in favor of a similar TiVo setup would be 39 months. 39 months! That’s more than 3 years and I would lose FiOS video On Demand to boot. I just cannot justify buying in at this point with these prices when I can rent the FiOS product, get upgrades when available, and not worry about it failing for more than three years. I just thought I would share my story as I believe that TiVo was looking to get people in my EXACT situation to jump on board. If prices come down in the future or package deals are offered, if dynamic tuner allocation is introduced and/or if a 6 tuner STB is brought to market, I will have to reconsider. But, the monthly/lifetime service fee on each Mini really is the deal-breaker and right now the TiVo solution is just not compelling enough for me.

Cost Lifetime
TiVo Premiere XL4 399.99 499.99
TiVo Mini 99.99 149.99
TiVo Mini 99.99 149.99
599.97 799.97 1,399.94


Monthly
FiOS CableCard 3.99
FiOS MRDVR (3 Room) 39.99

Breakeven (in months) 39

Hello,

I'm in the same boat as you. I have been waiting for this option for a very long time. I was excited about the "Q" (I was even selected as a Beta for Echo) but that didn't pan out. I'm hoping that Tivo gives some kind of discount for new users.

Also I see your breakeven point in 35 months 1399.9/39.99=35? Correct??
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:28 PM   #1203
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Also I see your breakeven point in 35 months 1399.9/39.99=35? Correct??
You have to account for the fact that he'd have to pay $3.99 for the CC monthly, so the monthly difference is $36.00, not $39.99.

I would argue it should be 35 months for another reason though. For an apples to apples comparison, the Premiere 4 @ $249.99 is a better equivalent to his current FiOS DVR in terms of hard drive space, and it would essentially be a 2-tuner device at launch if you had two Mini's with allocated Live TV tuners. But I'm just nit-picking. Each person will have their own opinion about what is reasonable for the break-even point.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:30 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by wizardman13 View Post
Hello,

I'm in the same boat as you. I have been waiting for this option for a very long time. I was excited about the "Q" (I was even selected as a Beta for Echo) but that didn't pan out. I'm hoping that Tivo gives some kind of discount for new users.

Also I see your breakeven point in 35 months 1399.9/39.99=35? Correct??
If TiVo did not require a $3.99 CableCARD in perpetuity, then the B/E would be 35 months. Don't forget you need a CableCARD for TiVo.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #1205
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Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
You have to account for the fact that he'd have to pay $3.99 for the CC monthly, so the monthly difference is $36.00, not $39.99.

I would argue it should be 35 months for another reason though. For an apples to apples comparison, the Premiere 4 @ $249.99 is a better equivalent to his current FiOS DVR in terms of hard drive space, and it would essentially be a 2-tuner device at launch if you had two Mini's with allocated Live TV tuners. But I'm just nit-picking. Each person will have their own opinion about what is reasonable for the break-even point.
This is a fair argument, but I would like a bigger HDD if I am going to upgrade. Also, TiVo does not allow for OnDemand with FiOS. That is worth something. Case in point, I had not seen Homeland until the beginning of February. I subscribed to Showtime for $6/month, watched the full 2 seasons and cancelled my Showtime subscription. Options like that are gone with TiVo. Good show BTW.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:25 PM   #1206
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Not true. A premiere can use the tuner of another premiere on the netowrk. Dynamic and all, right now.

Go to the bottom of the myshows list, select another premiere on the network and go to the my shows list. Now hit the live tv button. You are watching the tuner on the remote premiere.
Are you sure about that? When you bring up the guide for scheduling it's in context of remote host so you can schedule recordings and edit season passes of the remote host. But if you bring up guide or live TV from remote My Shows you get the foreground tuner of your local host, not the remote host. I just double checked before posting this to make sure. I set tuners on my remote host to different channels than my local host and then browsed to remote host My Shows and hit live TV and confirmed I was getting foreground tuner of my local host.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:02 PM   #1207
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This is a fair argument, but I would like a bigger HDD if I am going to upgrade. Also, TiVo does not allow for OnDemand with FiOS. That is worth something. Case in point, I had not seen Homeland until the beginning of February. I subscribed to Showtime for $6/month, watched the full 2 seasons and cancelled my Showtime subscription. Options like that are gone with TiVo. Good show BTW.
Also what is worth something is the resale value of the TiVos. I've been using TiVos with FiOS since 2007 and I fully expect to sell at least one of my four tuner Premieres if/when a six tuner box is released. The sale of my lifetime four tuner Premiere will probably cover most of the cost of a six tuner Lifetime TiVo.

Since I've had FiOS I've upgraded Tivos multiple times and gone through at least sixteen TiVos(both S3 and S4 boxes). The sale of my lifetime S3 boxes covered around 80% of the cost of my lifetime, two tuner S4 boxes. And the sale of two of my lifetime two tuner S4 boxes, covered 100% of the cost of my lifetime four tuner S4 boxes.(for each lifetime, four tuner, Premiere I sold two Lifetime, two tuner premieres).

If I had been using FiOS DVRs since 2007 when I first got FIOS, my out of pocket expenses would have been much, much greater than what I've spent on TiVos during the same time period.

The Mini will reduce this cost even further. And with a lifetime option on the Mini, it will ensure a nice resale value as well.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #1208
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Are you sure about that? When you bring up the guide for scheduling it's in context of remote host so you can schedule recordings and edit season passes of the remote host. But if you bring up guide or live TV from remote My Shows you get the foreground tuner of your local host, not the remote host. I just double checked before posting this to make sure. I set tuners on my remote host to different channels than my local host and then browsed to remote host My Shows and hit live TV and confirmed I was getting foreground tuner of my local host.
I need to try this again. Perhaps I seleced an item in the remote host guide and it tuned that channel.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:27 PM   #1209
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Very few people will go back this thread it is just to long.
In this case, I and others posted about it yesterday, just a dozen or so posts back. That is why he was complaining.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #1210
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Works great on TiVo N adapter at 5GHz
If you have never have interference.
If you are in range.
If nothing else is sucking it dry.
If it is set up properly.

There are a lot of "ifs" which is why TiVo doesn't want to officially support it. I can't blame them a bit. But yeah, if you cover your ifs, it should work.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #1211
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If TiVo did not require a $3.99 CableCARD in perpetuity, then the B/E would be 35 months. Don't forget you need a CableCARD for TiVo.

OMG
For the 100th time. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT A CABLE CARD IN A TIVO [Premiere].

Unless you want to connect it to Cable TV. It can be used as a streaming client to another TiVo without a cable card. It can be used OTA (if it has those tuners) without a cable card. It can use Netflix and YouTube and any other network video without a cable card. You can push shows to it with PyTiVo without a cable card.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:45 PM   #1212
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OMG
For the 100th time. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT A CABLE CARD IN A TIVO [Premiere].
This is a thread about the TiVo mini, which requires a 4-tuner TiVo as a host. A 4-tuner TiVo without a CableCard is a useless item for almost everyone, because you can't tune most HD programming without the CableCard. For someone comparing a FIOS DVR to a 4-tuner TiVo, the CableCard is a requirement to get the same channel lineup.

On my cable system, they only charge $2 for CableCards, so it doesn't really matter in my own comparisons. I still have a loose card that is leftover from a TiVo I sold when I went from two 2-tuners to an Elite. I guess one day I will get around to bringing it back to the cable company and save $2 a month.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:01 PM   #1213
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I am just going to leave this alone because you are not getting it and I am going to pull my hair out trying to explain it

Bottom line it is device driven. You need to move past the whole whatever your Internet connection speed is The actual coax has a very high theoretical limit for speed. You are limited by the device speed.

Please do more research before posting about fios and the incoming connection speed and moca

It is just going to confuse people

And no one slower moca device does not slow down everything else


That is like saying plugging in a 10base T device would slow down an entire 1000mbit network Device driven
Between two devices it's about 70mbps. Even if their Ethernet ports would be able to do 90 on their own.

If the devices in fact operate separately, then it's not an issue, as the router and ONT will stay on MoCA 2.0, but no, it's not obvious that would be the case, as MoCA is running over a shared channel on a split coax system, as opposed to home-run UTP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capital J View Post
Hello
I have been watching from the sidelines and waiting anxiously for more TiVo Mini information to be released. I am a current FiOS customer and I pay $39.99/month for the FiOS multi-room DVR package for 3 rooms. The DVR I have is the 2 tuner QIP7232 and it has a 500GB HDD with the ability to attach up to a 2TB external HDD. This setup has been adequate, but I have often wished the DVR could record more than 2 programs at the same time. I have also been hoping to ditch the monthly DVR “tax” that I pay so I began looking at TiVo and the now scrapped Ceton Q + Echo solutions.

I am sad to say that I do not believe TiVo has won me over as a new customer with their pricing. As I see it, the breakeven point for me to ditch the FiOS gear in favor of a similar TiVo setup would be 39 months. 39 months! That’s more than 3 years and I would lose FiOS video On Demand to boot. I just cannot justify buying in at this point with these prices when I can rent the FiOS product, get upgrades when available, and not worry about it failing for more than three years. I just thought I would share my story as I believe that TiVo was looking to get people in my EXACT situation to jump on board. If prices come down in the future or package deals are offered, if dynamic tuner allocation is introduced and/or if a 6 tuner STB is brought to market, I will have to reconsider. But, the monthly/lifetime service fee on each Mini really is the deal-breaker and right now the TiVo solution is just not compelling enough for me.
I usually look at it over a 48 month life, although that's assuming you don't get bitten by the upgrade bug first!

TiVo is really a unique product, and I don't think they're trying to be price competitive, although at the rate the price hikes are going with the MSOs, they are actually becoming somewhat price competitive. I'm not sure where we're headed with all these box fees, adding $40 or more every month to the bill for boxes is just absurdity, and there's no cost-effective way around it (having a whole-home distributed A/V system is not at all cost-effective). MCE is really the only thing that is pretty cost-effective, but it's a half-baked DIY system. The days of analog cable with a bunch of splitters are gone, that's for sure.

For the CableCards, you actually get a credit back compared to the base price of the plan if you only have one CableCard for the whole house, and none of their boxes.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #1214
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This is a thread about the TiVo mini, which requires a 4-tuner TiVo as a host. A 4-tuner TiVo without a CableCard is a useless item for almost everyone
Yeah, because the 4 tuner model has no OTA.

I agree with what you are saying, but the thread has ALSO been about comparing using a TiVo for a client to using a Mini as a client. Both can be used as clients without needing cable cards in either...
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:12 AM   #1215
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I'm hoping for an upgrade offer from a Premiere or TiVoHD to a four tuner Premiere, I would really think about selling a lifetimed TiVo or 2 and going stream (android)and mini's instead.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:11 AM   #1216
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I apologize if this has been already asked, but does the mini then come with a new ir remote? And does it have Bluetooth built in so we could use a slider?
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:17 AM   #1217
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I apologize if this has been already asked, but does the mini then come with a new ir remote? And does it have Bluetooth built in so we could use a slider?
I believe it comes with a standard TiVo basic peanut remote. The Mini has a USB port so it will probably work with the Slide remote. Rumor has it that new remotes will be announced this year. I think an earlier post acknowledges that there will be a way to extend the IR for the Mini so it can be mounted behind a flat screen TV.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #1218
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Not having a built in Moca bridge is a disappointment. That's one more device to pay for and add clutter. But I'll pay Tivo the $250 cause it beats paying VZ $6/mo forever.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:49 AM   #1219
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Not having a built in Moca bridge is a disappointment. That's one more device to pay for and add clutter. But I'll pay Tivo the $250 cause it beats paying VZ $6/mo forever.
Just to clarify... The Mini thin client does support MoCA internally. It won't bridge a MoCA connection to feed ethernet to other devices that are co-located with the Mini.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:50 AM   #1220
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Just to clarify... The Mini thin client does support MoCA internally. It won't bridge a MoCA connection to feed ethernet to other devices that are co-located with the Mini.
I gotcha Sbiller. I have a PS3 in an upstairs bedroom away from the router that I was hoping to pair with the Mini. Now I gotta go buy another $75 device
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #1221
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Just use wireless for the PS3. The wireless connection on the PS3 is more than fast enough for any apps or games.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:55 AM   #1222
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Just use wireless for the PS3. The wireless connection on the PS3 is more than fast enough for any apps or games.
Router in the Basement. A PS3 in an upstairs bedroom. = Signal degradation, not as fast as MoCA. Amazon instant video is watchable but does lag at times on wireless.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #1223
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Router in the Basement. A PS3 in an upstairs bedroom. = Signal degradation, not as fast as MoCA. Amazon instant video is watchable but does lag at times on wireless.
Try a different router or AP. My currrent Asus router works great with multiple floors or over a wide horizontal plane. With it oriented one way the signal is best over a horizontal area. With the router oriented 90 degrees another way the signal is best in the vertical plane.

When I was in one of the neighbors above me. I was in their upper level, which is two floors up from my router, i still had a very strong wifi signal going through one floor of concrete and one floor of wood. And that was even with the router oriented for horizontal coverage.

My older DLink router, that the Asus replaced, never had coverage that good.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #1224
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Try a different router or AP. My currrent Asus router works great with multiple floors or over a wide horizontal plane. With it oriented one way the signal is best over a horizontal area. With the router oriented 90 degrees another way the signal is best in the vertical plane.

When I was in one of the neighbors above me. I was in their upper level, which is two floors up from my router, i still had a very strong wifi signal going through one floor of concrete and one floor of wood. And that was even with the router oriented for horizontal coverage.

My older DLink router, that the Asus replaced, never had coverage that good.
What Asus router do you have?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #1225
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I gotcha Sbiller. I have a PS3 in an upstairs bedroom away from the router that I was hoping to pair with the Mini. Now I gotta go buy another $75 device
Actiontec MoCa adapter is $49.99 from TiVo. You could also put your host Premiere 4/XL4 DVR with the PS3 since it does provide the bridging functionality.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:20 AM   #1226
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Actiontec MoCa adapter is $49.99 from TiVo. You could also put your host Premiere 4/XL4 DVR with the PS3 since it does provide the bridging functionality.
Thanks Sbiller!! You saved me $25. The same adapter is $76 on Amazon. I have my XL4 paired with a PS3 in the Living Room. I wanted to pair the Mini with a PS3 in the bedroom (yes I love PS3's!) so I better buy this adapter now before they sell out.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:21 AM   #1227
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Thanks Sbiller!! You saved me $25. The same adapter is $76 on Amazon. I have my XL4 paired with a PS3 in the Living Room. I wanted to pair the Mini with a PS3 in the bedroom (yes I love PS3's!) so I better buy this adapter now before they sell out.
They've been selling the Actiontec for quite some time at $49.99 which I'm guessing covers their cost from Actiontec. I don't expect them to increase it anytime since it helps their whole home initiatives.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:21 PM   #1228
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Has anyone checked to see if Logitech Harmony has included the Mini in their database? If not I'm guessing the IR codes will be the same as a Premiere?
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:46 PM   #1229
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What Asus router do you have?
I have the RT-N56U. I am using the padavan custom firmware.

http://code.google.com/p/rt-n56u/


So has there been any other confirmation about the TiVo Mini being released on the 6th? I see the Roku 3 is also supposedly being released the same day. So hopefully I can pick both up from Best Buy at the same time.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #1230
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Has anyone checked to see if Logitech Harmony has included the Mini in their database? If not I'm guessing the IR codes will be the same as a Premiere?
Didn't someone mention that the Mini comes with the standard TiVo Peanut remote?
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