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Old 02-20-2013, 10:43 PM   #1
antalo
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S2 Power supply repair

One of my S2s quit. No lights, nothing. Took out the ps and when I turned it over on the underside, one leg off the AC input connector at the solder joint was burned open. did a qick check for shorts, found none and put it back into the box. Applying AC, for a second the gray screen flashed by and the front light started to flash green & orange I believe. Unplugged it right away, took out the ps supply and took one out of a S2 540 box which was working, but not subbed. The S2 240 fired right up like nothing happened.
Did some reading and ordered 2 sets of capacitors from Mouser. Paid for USPS shipping and they send it 2nd day air.
My question is or are :
Are these caps the same for the S2 as listed for S3 models ? Couldn't find parts listings for S2 power supply.

Is there a schematic available for S2 ? 240 and 540 series ?

How do you get that white epoxy or whatever covers the caps off ?
Couldn't find any info about that.

Not related to this problem. Is it worth to get a mother board fixed with a lifetime sub ? I think $ 150.- is being charged for a repair job.

Thanks for any info.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #2
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One of my S2s quit. No lights, nothing. Took out the ps and when I turned it over on the underside, one leg off the AC input connector at the solder joint was burned open. did a qick check for shorts, found none and put it back into the box. Applying AC, for a second the gray screen flashed by and the front light started to flash green & orange I believe. Unplugged it right away, took out the ps supply and took one out of a S2 540 box which was working, but not subbed. The S2 240 fired right up like nothing happened.
Did some reading and ordered 2 sets of capacitors from Mouser. Paid for USPS shipping and they send it 2nd day air.
My question is or are :
Are these caps the same for the S2 as listed for S3 models ? Couldn't find parts listings for S2 power supply.

Is there a schematic available for S2 ? 240 and 540 series ?

How do you get that white epoxy or whatever covers the caps off ?
Couldn't find any info about that.

Not related to this problem. Is it worth to get a mother board fixed with a lifetime sub ? I think $ 150.- is being charged for a repair job.

Thanks for any info.
That burning at the AC input is probably due to the jack being a little loose and breaking the solder joint. Suggest you unsolder completely, undo the screws and nuts holding it, clean up the area underneath with de-natured alcohol, make sure the copper traces are still intact, put the jack back and screw it back down well but not so much as to crack the board and then re-solder it. A solder gun would be better than an iron.


The deal with the caps is you find the ones that are bulging, even just a teeny little bit (and they're usually the ones hiding under the heat sink overhang that are the hardest to get to), and you get replacements that are Low ESR, rated for 105 degrees Celsius/centigrade, the same uF number, and the same voltage rating or the next higher voltage rating.

For instance, if it's a 2000uF, 10V, you can sub in a 2000uF, 16V. A 25V if absolutely necessary.

If it's rated 16V, and you can't get a 16, you can use a 25, and if absolutely necessary, I think the next step above that is 35V.

You cannot use a different uF number, however, and they have to be Low ESR and 105 degree.

And you have to observe polarity. One of the two metal "legs" sticking out the bottom is the negative lead and the other one is the positive lead and the cap will have either + or - signs on one side to indicate which is which.

Take note of how the one you remove is hooked up, the circuit board will be marked in some way to indicate which hole is which.

I bust the white stuff off with pliers or diagonal cutters.

Schematics? We wish.

The 240 and 540 power supplies are interchangeable temporarily for troubleshooting purposes, but apparently the 540 isn't quite robust enough to handle a 240 motherboard and a hard drive or two long term.


What's the model number of the lifetimed board that needs fixing and what's wrong with it?
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:37 PM   #3
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That burning at the AC input is probably due to the jack being a little loose and breaking the solder joint. Suggest you unsolder completely, undo the screws and nuts holding it, clean up the area underneath with de-natured alcohol, make sure the copper traces are still intact, put the jack back and screw it back down well but not so much as to crack the board and then re-solder it. A solder gun would be better than an iron.


The deal with the caps is you find the ones that are bulging, even just a teeny little bit (and they're usually the ones hiding under the heat sink overhang that are the hardest to get to), and you get replacements that are Low ESR, rated for 105 degrees Celsius/centigrade, the same uF number, and the same voltage rating or the next higher voltage rating.

For instance, if it's a 2000uF, 10V, you can sub in a 2000uF, 16V. A 25V if absolutely necessary.

If it's rated 16V, and you can't get a 16, you can use a 25, and if absolutely necessary, I think the next step above that is 35V.

You cannot use a different uF number, however, and they have to be Low ESR and 105 degree.

And you have to observe polarity. One of the two metal "legs" sticking out the bottom is the negative lead and the other one is the positive lead and the cap will have either + or - signs on one side to indicate which is which.

Take note of how the one you remove is hooked up, the circuit board will be marked in some way to indicate which hole is which.

I bust the white stuff off with pliers or diagonal cutters.

Schematics? We wish.

The 240 and 540 power supplies are interchangeable temporarily for troubleshooting purposes, but apparently the 540 isn't quite robust enough to handle a 240 motherboard and a hard drive or two long term.


What's the model number of the lifetimed board that needs fixing and what's wrong with it?
Sorry it took me so long to get back. Having some eye problems, yard work, hney-do stuff, etc.
I really appreciate your help unitron. I ordered the caps as per the list I found for S3 units. Ordered 2 sets, just in case. total @0.15 from Mouser. Paid for USPS and they sent in it next day air. I have to thank them for that. My S2 power supplies have the sticker SPWR-00004-000 Rev A1 on them.

Here is a listing : C14 - 2200 uf 10 volts --- this one was bad
C17 - 2200 uf 10 v
C15, C42 and C20 470 uf 10 volts
C23 - 470 uf 25 volts
C31 - 1000 uf 16 volts
C27 & C29 are small in size and I didn't mess with them
C34 and C35 are even smaller, about 1/8" in diameter. Didn't mess with them either.
C18 is not populated. Wonder if it would make a difference.

I used the 2 2200 uf 16 volts and the 3 470 uf 16 volt caps , but did not have the 470 uf 25 volt and the 1000 uf 16 volt.
I took both out of the board thinking I have new ones, but didn't put them back and as we used to say after a repair job, put it to the smoke test. It sure did smoke ! ! C23 emitted a puff of white smoke. Turned out, I put it in backwards. Today I checked with Radio Shack and they did have the 470 uf 35volt for 1.49 Put it in and the smoke test was negative and the Tivo fired right up.

Maybe some one could put a "Project " together like for the S3 power supply and make it a sticky or something like it where it would be easy to find. I checked Mouser on line and they got a million 470 uf 35 volts caps and I didn't know which one I should try, but than I didn't want to order just one or 2 caps.

The white stuf came off fairly easy. Used box cutter to cut away small pieces at a time and small needle nose pliers. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

I am not sure what you mean by the model number of the mother board of the other lifetimed S2 not working. It's TDC 240 series and a white sticker on the mother board says : TS/N-MKS-TG-2851604

When power is applied to it, the front light just flickers orange/green, but NOT red. Power supply is good, hard drive is good. There is no display on the tv screen. I like to get this one fixed too, mainly because it has lifetime on it.
Thanx again unitron ! !
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:34 AM   #4
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Sorry it took me so long to get back. Having some eye problems, yard work, hney-do stuff, etc.
I really appreciate your help unitron. I ordered the caps as per the list I found for S3 units. Ordered 2 sets, just in case. total @0.15 from Mouser. Paid for USPS and they sent in it next day air. I have to thank them for that. My S2 power supplies have the sticker SPWR-00004-000 Rev A1 on them.

Here is a listing : C14 - 2200 uf 10 volts --- this one was bad
C17 - 2200 uf 10 v
C15, C42 and C20 470 uf 10 volts
C23 - 470 uf 25 volts
C31 - 1000 uf 16 volts
C27 & C29 are small in size and I didn't mess with them
C34 and C35 are even smaller, about 1/8" in diameter. Didn't mess with them either.
C18 is not populated. Wonder if it would make a difference.

I used the 2 2200 uf 16 volts and the 3 470 uf 16 volt caps , but did not have the 470 uf 25 volt and the 1000 uf 16 volt.
I took both out of the board thinking I have new ones, but didn't put them back and as we used to say after a repair job, put it to the smoke test. It sure did smoke ! ! C23 emitted a puff of white smoke. Turned out, I put it in backwards. Today I checked with Radio Shack and they did have the 470 uf 35volt for 1.49 Put it in and the smoke test was negative and the Tivo fired right up.

Maybe some one could put a "Project " together like for the S3 power supply and make it a sticky or something like it where it would be easy to find. I checked Mouser on line and they got a million 470 uf 35 volts caps and I didn't know which one I should try, but than I didn't want to order just one or 2 caps.

The white stuf came off fairly easy. Used box cutter to cut away small pieces at a time and small needle nose pliers. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

I am not sure what you mean by the model number of the mother board of the other lifetimed S2 not working. It's TDC 240 series and a white sticker on the mother board says : TS/N-MKS-TG-2851604

When power is applied to it, the front light just flickers orange/green, but NOT red. Power supply is good, hard drive is good. There is no display on the tv screen. I like to get this one fixed too, mainly because it has lifetime on it.
Thanx again unitron ! !
Okay, let's narrow it down. Is it a TCD240040, a TCD240080, a TCD24004A, etc.

Lifetime is attached to the TiVo Service Number, which is encoded in the crypto chip, which, on original Series 3 and older model TiVos, can be moved to another motherboard of the same model, but that requires someone with the knowledge, skills, and equipment working with unsoldering and resoldering surface mount devices, so it's a bit more of a challenge than the caps on the power supply board.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:06 AM   #5
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It is a 240040 model. Which is the crypto chip ? The TIVO chip ?
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:13 AM   #6
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It is a 240040 model. Which is the crypto chip ? The TIVO chip ?
I'll only tell you if you promise never to touch it until and unless we've had a long, long conversation about SMD and various solder alloys and fluxes and a bunch of other stuff.

I did the swap on a dual tuner Series 2 to save 2TB worth of recorded shows (the recordings are tied to the TSN as well), and it still gives me nightmares.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:54 AM   #7
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I'll only tell you if you promise never to touch it until and unless we've had a long, long conversation about SMD and various solder alloys and fluxes and a bunch of other stuff.

I did the swap on a dual tuner Series 2 to save 2TB worth of recorded shows (the recordings are tied to the TSN as well), and it still gives me nightmares.
I can promise I'll never touch those chips. Maybe if I were 10 or 15 years younger. I've been in the ground to air comm repair business in the USAF for 30 years and have some soldering experience, but that was in the tube and transistor days. My hands are not as stable as they used to be mainly due to diabetes and old age. (70) I never put in a cap backwards before and I did pay close attention to it. Anyhow, or anyway I want to get this board fixed.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:12 AM   #8
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I can promise I'll never touch those chips. Maybe if I were 10 or 15 years younger. I've been in the ground to air comm repair business in the USAF for 30 years and have some soldering experience, but that was in the tube and transistor days. My hands are not as stable as they used to be mainly due to diabetes and old age. (70) I never put in a cap backwards before and I did pay close attention to it. Anyhow, or anyway I want to get this board fixed.
It's made by Atmel and their name is on it, it's square, about .75 to 1 inch on a side with 8 or 10 legs on each side that solder to the top of the board.

You need a good lighted magnifier, a small tip iron, and some stuff called Chip-Qwik or something like that which comes with some flux and a special low melt point solder alloy with bismuth in it.

You spread some flux along one row of pins, then melt a little of the special solder into the area to get it to cause the solder on the board to flow and remove it all with a solder sucker or some wick.

Then you do the next side and then the next and then the next.

Best of course to start by taking the chip off of the non-lifetimed board, and then clean up all the pads and then solder it back in place for practice and then take it off again.

At that point you'll have a better idea if you want to mess with the good board.

You should also get a pinout for the chip so that you know which are no-connection (NC) so that if/most likely when one of the solder pads on the motherboard comes off you'll know whether or not to panic.


The real fun is getting the chip to sit absolutely still in exactly the right place while you tack down a couple of pins to hold it in place before soldering the rest of them.

And then you go back and fix all the places where the solder bridged between pins.

You might be tempted to use solder with silver in it to get some in a real small diameter, but the last thing you want is something with an even higher melting point than regular lead/tin alloy.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:10 AM   #9
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It's made by Atmel and their name is on it, it's square, about .75 to 1 inch on a side with 8 or 10 legs on each side that solder to the top of the board.

You need a good lighted magnifier, a small tip iron, and some stuff called Chip-Qwik or something like that which comes with some flux and a special low melt point solder alloy with bismuth in it.

You spread some flux along one row of pins, then melt a little of the special solder into the area to get it to cause the solder on the board to flow and remove it all with a solder sucker or some wick.

Then you do the next side and then the next and then the next.

Best of course to start by taking the chip off of the non-lifetimed board, and then clean up all the pads and then solder it back in place for practice and then take it off again.

At that point you'll have a better idea if you want to mess with the good board.

You should also get a pinout for the chip so that you know which are no-connection (NC) so that if/most likely when one of the solder pads on the motherboard comes off you'll know whether or not to panic.


The real fun is getting the chip to sit absolutely still in exactly the right place while you tack down a couple of pins to hold it in place before soldering the rest of them.

And then you go back and fix all the places where the solder bridged between pins.

You might be tempted to use solder with silver in it to get some in a real small diameter, but the last thing you want is something with an even higher melting point than regular lead/tin alloy.
I found the Atmel chip and it doesn't look as scary as the others. That's all it would take is to move the Atmel from one board to another ? Of ccourse it would have to be the exact same board right ? 240040 both boards. Can't use a 240080 board ? The only difference should be just the size of the drive, no ?
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:46 AM   #10
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I found the Atmel chip and it doesn't look as scary as the others. That's all it would take is to move the Atmel from one board to another ? Of ccourse it would have to be the exact same board right ? 240040 both boards. Can't use a 240080 board ? The only difference should be just the size of the drive, no ?
Now you're starting to scare me a little, but yeah, a 240080 board should probably work just as well, since the only real difference is the size of hard drive put in at the factory, although I cannot absolutely guarantee that it will work, and in the case of swapping between a 2400x0 and a 2400xA, I really don't know the answer.

Software image compatibility and compatibility of what's on the crypto chip aren't necessarily the same thing.

If you'd ever moved one of those chips before you probably wouldn't be that quick to say "that's all it would take", cause you'd know how big an it it is.

I'm not going to come right out and say don't do it, but I suggest you eliminate all other possibilities for your problem first.

I assume you have or can lay hands on a voltmeter.

Orange wire +3.3V
Red wire +5V
Yellow wire +12V
White or some other color besides black wire (maybe brown or gray) if there is one will be in the neighborhood of +30V at almost no amps whatsoever 'cause it's just for the voltage divider that feeds the varactors in the tuner.

The S1s had that tuner voltage wire and some of the S2 models.

Somewhere on the power supply or on a label wrapped around the big 200V cap on the AC side of the power supply will be a list of output voltages and amperage ratings.

Check all the voltages relative to ground with no hard drive attached and then do it again with just the 4 pin Molex connected to the drive, no data cable, and see if everything's real close to what it should be.

And don't forget to know where both ends of the TiVo's power cord are at all times.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:47 AM   #11
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WAIT!

You say your 240 works with the 540 supply installed?
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #12
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WAIT!

You say your 240 works with the 540 supply installed?
Yes. it does. At least it did while I was testing it and did a server or daily call and update. I'll turn it on and let it cook for a day or two. The repaired power supply is in the 540 now, but I don't have a sub for that. It did call in and updated the guide, but it tells me you have to activate it.
The power supplies are identical so there should be no reason why they would not work .

I'll check the voltages later on today as you recommended. I saw the voltages on that big 200volt cap, but I don't know where to check them. There is no access point on the power supply I could see. I'll have a closer look.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM   #13
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Yes. it does. At least it did while I was testing it and did a server or daily call and update. I'll turn it on and let it cook for a day or two. The repaired power supply is in the 540 now, but I don't have a sub for that. It did call in and updated the guide, but it tells me you have to activate it.
The power supplies are identical so there should be no reason why they would not work .

I'll check the voltages later on today as you recommended. I saw the voltages on that big 200volt cap, but I don't know where to check them. There is no access point on the power supply I could see. I'll have a closer look.
If it's really a 540 supply it's not identical.

It's very similar, and the pinout of the plug that goes on the motherboard is the same (or you really would have let the magic smoke escape), but the 540 supply isn't quite as muscular, so it's better to swap for short test purposes only.

That said, if the 240 board works with any power supply, then the 240 board works, period, and if it doesn't work with a particular supply then that particular supply is the culprit.

As for measurements, you just back probe that plug on the motherboard.

You can jam the negative probe into one of the holes with a black wire entering for ground, but if you've got a way to alligator clip it directly to the metal chassis--on the side away from the power supply--that's even better.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:57 AM   #14
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Now you're starting to scare me a little, but yeah, a 240080 board should probably work just as well, since the only real difference is the size of hard drive put in at the factory, although I cannot absolutely guarantee that it will work, and in the case of swapping between a 2400x0 and a 2400xA, I really don't know the answer.

Software image compatibility and compatibility of what's on the crypto chip aren't necessarily the same thing.

If you'd ever moved one of those chips before you probably wouldn't be that quick to say "that's all it would take", cause you'd know how big an it it is.

I'm not going to come right out and say don't do it, but I suggest you eliminate all other possibilities for your problem first.

I assume you have or can lay hands on a voltmeter.

Orange wire +3.3V
Red wire +5V
Yellow wire +12V
White or some other color besides black wire (maybe brown or gray) if there is one will be in the neighborhood of +30V at almost no amps whatsoever 'cause it's just for the voltage divider that feeds the varactors in the tuner.

The S1s had that tuner voltage wire and some of the S2 models.

Somewhere on the power supply or on a label wrapped around the big 200V cap on the AC side of the power supply will be a list of output voltages and amperage ratings.

Check all the voltages relative to ground with no hard drive attached and then do it again with just the 4 pin molex connected to the drive, no data cable, and see if everything's real close to what it should be.

And don't forget to know where both ends of the TiVo's power cord are at all times.
My voltage measurements didn't go so good. I couldn't find any of those wires you mention. You must be thinking of another model. The only wires coming out of the power supply are the molex power to the drive and the ribbon cable. Just to be sure I put in the newly repaired ps and I still get the same result. As soon as plug in the AC cord, the front light start to oscillate at a fast rate. No video at all. I couldn't find any pot at all. Is it suppose to be on the ps or mb ?

The other 240 with the power supply from the 540 in it is humming along. It called in this morning, but it has no input. Maybe I should connect some input to it .
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:12 AM   #15
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My voltage measurements didn't go so good. I couldn't find any of those wires you mention. You must be thinking of another model. The only wires coming out of the power supply are the molex power to the drive and the ribbon cable. Just to be sure I put in the newly repaired ps and I still get the same result. As soon as plug in the AC cord, the front light start to oscillate at a fast rate. No video at all. I couldn't find any pot at all. Is it suppose to be on the ps or mb ?

The other 240 with the power supply from the 540 in it is humming along. It called in this morning, but it has no input. Maybe I should connect some input to it .
Okay, I had my power supplies confused because I was working from memory and not taking my TiVos offline and opening them up. I forgot about the ribbon cable.

The S1s and S3s have the plugs that go onto the motherboards.

You can still test the +5 (red wire) and +12 (yellow wire) relative to ground (black wire) by backprobing the 4 pin Molex that powers the hard drive, and since the bad caps, visibly swollen or not, are almost certainly going to be across one or the other of those outputs, if there's a low voltage you and the meter should find it.

Speaking of ribbon cables, be very careful not to accidentally partially dislodge the one that runs from the motherboard to the front panel.
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