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Old 02-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #9361
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.......
So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.

No hex editing necessary.
I assume "running 11.0k" means the image you put on the 2TB drive is a WinMFS backup of a smaller drive that had 11.0k on it, correct?

Does the same WinMFS-only procedure apply to the 652 model? In particular, if I start with a WinMFS backup of my current 1TB drive with 11.0k on it and upgrade to 2TB?
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #9362
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I assume "running 11.0k" means the image you put on the 2TB drive is a WinMFS backup of a smaller drive that had 11.0k on it, correct?

Does the same WinMFS-only procedure apply to the 652 model? In particular, if I start with a WinMFS backup of my current 1TB drive with 11.0k on it and upgrade to 2TB?
If that 1TB drive does not have a 16th Apple Free partition on the end, you can use the jmfs cd to copy it byte for byte to the 2TB and then add a single MFS Media partition (for a total of 16, the limit per drive for a TiVo) to use the other 1TB.

Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.

If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:21 PM   #9363
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If that 1TB drive does not have a 16th Apple Free partition on the end, you can use the jmfs cd to copy it byte for byte to the 2TB and then add a single MFS Media partition (for a total of 16, the limit per drive for a TiVo) to use the other 1TB.

Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.

If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.
To your thinking, is there an advantage in doing it one way versus the other? (Spoken as a person who's still amazed & delighted that I managed to upgrade to 1TB using WinMFS -- if, given the above conditions, I could upgrade to 2TB using the method that worked for me before, I'll be happy to go that route.) And if this is truly an option, I'm sure my fellow followers of this thread would be interested in knowing that.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:30 PM   #9364
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To your thinking, is there an advantage in doing it one way versus the other? (Spoken as a person who's still amazed & delighted that I managed to upgrade to 1TB using WinMFS -- if, given the above conditions, I could upgrade to 2TB using the method that worked for me before, I'll be happy to go that route.) And if this is truly an option, I'm sure my fellow followers of this thread would be interested in knowing that.

I don't know enough to know if one way is better than the other.

To me, the only advantage (once you've made sure there's no Apple Free partition about which to worry) is that WinMFS will let you expand the size of the swap partition as part of the copying process.

Which I can't say for sure is worth the bother or not, but a 1GB swap partition is only about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.

But plenty of people have used jmfs on their Premieres and S3 HDs and left the swap partition the same size as on the stock drive and as far as we know it hasn't hurt them any.

And of course if you have a Premiere, none of the above matters because your only choice is to use jmfs to copy the original drive.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:46 PM   #9365
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I don't know enough to know if one way is better than the other.

To me, the only advantage (once you've made sure there's no Apple Free partition about which to worry) is that WinMFS will let you expand the size of the swap partition as part of the copying process.

Which I can't say for sure is worth the bother or not, but a 1GB swap partition is only about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.

But plenty of people have used jmfs on their Premieres and S3 HDs and left the swap partition the same size as on the stock drive and as far as we know it hasn't hurt them any.

And of course if you have a Premiere, none of the above matters because your only choice is to use jmfs to copy the original drive.
Thanks. In my case, I'm strictly in THD country. I'm at the point where I've determined that the EARX drive that replaced my RMA'd drive is ship-shape, now I just need to carve out a stretch of time to dismantle the Tivo and do the copying. I'll report back on that other thread when I do, just b/c I started the conversation there.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:49 AM   #9366
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............
Or you could use WinMFS to copy the 1TB to the 2TB, preserving all of your recordings and settings, and, whether there's an Apple Free partition on the 1TB or not, use WinMFS to expand that 15th MFS Media partition to use the rest of that 2TB, which will give you a partition about 1.6TB in size.

If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.
I'm not that concerned with saving my current recordings. (I mainly use TiVo for short term time shifting rather than archival storage.) I did my 1TB expansion with WinMFS using a truncated backup from the original 160GB drive via a (single) USB-SATA cable (thus avoiding messing with sata connections on my PC motherboard). If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:

1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
3. Supersize using WinMFS.

Or does your recipe work only if both old and new drive are connected to PC at the same time (as required when WinMFS copies recordings over)? This of course isn't practical using USB-SATA adapters because it takes forever to copy the recordings.

Just a reminder in case context has been lost by now: My tivo is a 652.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #9367
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As far as is known, jmfs will not recognize a 648 drive as a TiVo drive, even though it will recognize a 652 drive.
Can't offer an opinion on jmfs, have never used it.

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So instead of getting WinMFS to add a 14th and 15th partition, and then getting jmfs to add a 16th, as can be done with the S3 HD, one has to settle for WinMFS adding a 14th and 15th with the 15th, the MFS Media partition, being over 1.2TB in size.
I know the old paradigm was nothing >1.2TB would work but do we know for sure there is something 'wrong' with the 15th partition being 1.6TB?

If the 648 only uses 1.2TB of the 1.6TB assigned I wouldn't be able to tell because Tivo provides no usage statistics on storage. OTOH, if the 648 goes down hard when recordings exceed 1.2TB I'll found out next week...

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However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.
My .tbk was 11.0g and three days later it is still 11.0g, so 11.0k is not essential to assign partitions on a 2TB drive with WinMFS.

Quote:
If you're already running 11.0k on that 1TB, it'll be able to handle a partition that large, whereas previously there was a 1.2TB limit.
I doubt that swap space is a consideration, but I set the swap size to 512MB, and partition 15 was assigned at 1.6TB.

My plan was to force a kickstart to get upgraded to 11.0k but will leave it as-is and wait to see what happens next week when 11.0g has to recover storage to record new programs.

If it turns out that 11.0k does have 'magic' then replacing the 11.0g at dropbox with an 11.0k would be a good idea.

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If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:

1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
3. Supersize using WinMFS.
That may not work because when I expanded to the 1 TB drive, WinMFS assigned an Apple partition. My concern was that a pre-existing Apple partition would prevent WinMFS successfully expanding to a 2 TB drive. My goal was to prevent creation of an Apple partition, which is why I started with a virgin .tbk and went the MFSadd plus MFS SuperSize route. You don't need 11.0k to get to a 2 TB drive. My Tivo is a 648, but the same procedure should work just as well on a 652.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:40 PM   #9368
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I'm not that concerned with saving my current recordings. (I mainly use TiVo for short term time shifting rather than archival storage.) I did my 1TB expansion with WinMFS using a truncated backup from the original 160GB drive via a (single) USB-SATA cable (thus avoiding messing with sata connections on my PC motherboard). If I'm willing to lose my recordings can I do this as follows:

1. Make truncated back up of current (11.0k) 1 TB drive using WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable).
2. Use WinMFS (and USB-SATA cable) to put that backup on the 2 TB drive.
3. Supersize using WinMFS.

Or does your recipe work only if both old and new drive are connected to PC at the same time (as required when WinMFS copies recordings over)? This of course isn't practical using USB-SATA adapters because it takes forever to copy the recordings.

Just a reminder in case context has been lost by now: My tivo is a 652.
Supersize is not the same as expand.

Supersize undoes the "save x amount of space for the adds and showcases and such that gets either sent down the intarwebs or copied from the all-paid programming cable channel in the middle of the night".

In your case as long as you don't mind losing the recordings you can make a backup with WinMFS, then restore it to the 2TB, don't accept when it offers to expand, test it in the TiVo, then hook it back to the PC, launch WinMFS and click on mfsadd to use the entire drive, and then use WinMFS to supersize.

Or you could watch up and delete all of your recordings, make a full backup with the MFS Live cd v1.4, restore that to the 2TB with MFS Live, test it in the TiVo, and then use WinMFS to mfsadd and supersize.

Your choice. Second version might save the opening animation or something. Not my area of expertise.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:45 PM   #9369
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Can't offer an opinion on jmfs, have never used it.



I know the old paradigm was nothing >1.2TB would work but do we know for sure there is something 'wrong' with the 15th partition being 1.6TB?

If the 648 only uses 1.2TB of the 1.6TB assigned I wouldn't be able to tell because Tivo provides no usage statistics on storage. OTOH, if the 648 goes down hard when recordings exceed 1.2TB I'll found out next week...



My .tbk was 11.0g and three days later it is still 11.0g, so 11.0k is not essential to assign partitions on a 2TB drive with WinMFS.



I doubt that swap space is a consideration, but I set the swap size to 512MB, and partition 15 was assigned at 1.6TB.

My plan was to force a kickstart to get upgraded to 11.0k but will leave it as-is and wait to see what happens next week when 11.0g has to recover storage to record new programs.

If it turns out that 11.0k does have 'magic' then replacing the 11.0g at dropbox with an 11.0k would be a good idea.



That may not work because when I expanded to the 1 TB drive, WinMFS assigned an Apple partition. My concern was that a pre-existing Apple partition would prevent WinMFS successfully expanding to a 2 TB drive. My goal was to prevent creation of an Apple partition, which is why I started with a virgin .tbk and went the MFSadd plus MFS SuperSize route. You don't need 11.0k to get to a 2 TB drive. My Tivo is a 648, but the same procedure should work just as well on a 652.

Are my 652 images in the "don't PM me" thread only 11.0g?

I didn't really notice when I made them, but the 652 I got had been down with capacitor plague for a while (which is how I got it for just shipping), so I guess it's possible.

I may have to look into doing something about it if I get a long stretch of "nothing to do but catch up on old business" time.

Should be possible to restore it to a 2TB without expanding, run it in the TiVo long enough to both test and get updated to 11.0k, and then expand.

I don't think a 1.6TB Apple Free partition will bother it since it won't be trying to use it.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:43 AM   #9370
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Are my 652 images in the "don't PM me" thread only 11.0g?
I'm a 648, it is dlsl who has the 652. It is the 648s at dropbox which are 11.0g

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I don't think a 1.6TB Apple Free partition will bother it since it won't be trying to use it.
Since a 648 has more issues than the 652 I wanted to avoid the Apple partition to boost my chances of success.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:01 AM   #9371
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I'm a 648, it is dlsl who has the 652. It is the 648s at dropbox which are 11.0g



Since a 648 has more issues than the 652 I wanted to avoid the Apple partition to boost my chances of success.
I don't know that the 648 necessarily has issues to a greater extent than the 652.

jmfs can see 652 drives but not 648 drives for some reason, but I see that as a shortcoming of jmfs (although since I don't know how it works I could be wrong, and anyway it was never intended to deal with any S3 model).


The Apple Free partition is only a problem when trying to use jmfs to do an upgrade of an upgrade, WinMFS eats 'em for lunch.

I put that 648 image up there before actually owning or ever getting my hands on a 648.

Now that I have one I'm putting into service I'll try to put an 11.0k image in it's place as soon as I can.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #9372
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.......
In your case [expanding a 652 from 1TB to 2TB] as long as you don't mind losing the recordings you can make a backup with WinMFS, then restore it to the 2TB, don't accept when it offers to expand, test it in the TiVo, then hook it back to the PC, launch WinMFS and click on mfsadd to use the entire drive, and then use WinMFS to supersize.
......
Thanks, but I'm confused about the "... test it in the TiVo..." step before doing the mfsadd step. Is this necessary because running it in the TiVo changes something on the drive that's needed before mfsadd? Or is it really to "test" something? What is it testing -- and -- what if the "test" fails? (Also, if the "test" requires filling the 1TB to see what happens, then it will take a long time.)
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:59 AM   #9373
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Thanks, but I'm confused about the "... test it in the TiVo..." step before doing the mfsadd step. Is this necessary because running it in the TiVo changes something on the drive that's needed before mfsadd? Or is it really to "test" something? What is it testing -- and -- what if the "test" fails? (Also, if the "test" requires filling the 1TB to see what happens, then it will take a long time.)
Think of it as a belt and suspenders approach.

Unless you need to run it before expansion in order to get it to phone home and get updated to 11.0k, then it's not about the TiVo changing anything on it, and I suppose it wouldn't be absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it that way and it doesn't work, how do you know if the problem was in the original restoration or in the expansion?

It's kind of like the approach to troubleshooting and diagnosis--change only one thing at a time and see what happens.

As for testing it in the TiVo, just hook it up to the cable harness, let it hang out the back of the open chassis, plug it in the wall, see if it boots up, check your now playing list, play a little of the oldest and newest recordings, change channels a few times, call it good, tell it to restart, pull the cord just as it does, and do the expansion.

Then test it again the same way, if all seems well, shut down the same way, then actually re-install the drive bracket with the drive attached, hook it up, plug it in, check the usual, shut down, put the lid back on, call it done.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:01 AM   #9374
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Think of it as a belt and suspenders approach.

Unless you need to run it before expansion in order to get it to phone home and get updated to 11.0k, then it's not about the TiVo changing anything on it, and I suppose it wouldn't be absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it that way and it doesn't work, how do you know if the problem was in the original restoration or in the expansion?

It's kind of like the approach to troubleshooting and diagnosis--change only one thing at a time and see what happens.
.......
OK, I get it. I suspect the fun really starts when it doesn't work right after one of the steps -- but I will hope that doesn't happen.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #9375
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Followup to a question I asked in another thread now that it looks like 11.0k can handle 2TB drives.

I have a clean 250GB original 648 drive, I have no problem putting it in the box and getting it up to 11.0k.

Is the takeaway that with 11.0k I can then use WinMFS to copy and then expand and it'll use the 2.0TB? I would love to get rid of my dual 1TB drives and remove the external case.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:49 PM   #9376
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Followup to a question I asked in another thread now that it looks like 11.0k can handle 2TB drives.
Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:58 PM   #9377
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Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)
The big deal here is that you can do it with a 648 as well as a 652, and you don't need jmfs, WinMFS can handle it all, because 11.0k will handle a partition over 1.2TB in size.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #9378
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Can you provide a link and/or more information? Are you claiming that Tivos now handle bigger drives? From what to what? (I presume you mean 'to 2 TB', but I thought people have been using 2 TB drives fully for a long time.)
The TivoHD has been able to do 2TB on a single drive since JMFS was found to work on it, the catch was always that the original 648/OLED S3 was not able to go that high and topped at 1.2TB for a single drive. This thread and the comment by Unitron in another thread pointed out that with 11.0k (and possibly 11.0g) you can expand a 648 image to 2TB, that's a huge step forward for me, I'd been keeping an eye out for this discussion for a while but this was the first I'd heard of it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:30 PM   #9379
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The TivoHD has been able to do 2TB on a single drive since JMFS was found to work on it, the catch was always that the original 648/OLED S3 was not able to go that high and topped at 1.2TB for a single drive. This thread and the comment by Unitron in another thread pointed out that with 11.0k (and possibly 11.0g) you can expand a 648 image to 2TB, that's a huge step forward for me, I'd been keeping an eye out for this discussion for a while but this was the first I'd heard of it.
That whole issue was complicated by jmfs being able, for whatever reason, to detect an S3 HD (652) drive as a TiVo drive, but not the 648 (original OLED display S3) drive.

EDIT: Okay, maybe not complicated exactly, so much as the confusion was added to by "jmfs being able..."
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:32 PM   #9380
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I have no Windows… So obviously can't use WinMFS.

Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #9381
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I have no Windows… So obviously can't use WinMFS.

Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).
Not at all, what's being said is that with 11.0k you can now use WinMFS on a single 648 drive and expand it to 2.0TB bypassing the previous 1.2TB limit, no JMFS needed.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:41 PM   #9382
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I have no Windows… So obviously can't use WinMFS.

Oh, so you're saying that jmfs now works with OLED S3? That's good to know (though my OLED is currently dead).
jmfs DOES NOT work with the 648 because it won't or can't detect the 648 drive as a TiVo drive.

At least it couldn't a few weeks ago when I tried it just for the heck of it.

Try it with the MFS Live cd and see if it'll create a partition larger than 1.2TB.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:11 PM   #9383
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So I have a lot of options available, but which would be easiest in the long run?
I can let my 250GB update to 11.0k, back it up, then restore it to the 2TB but not expand, make sure it's happy, then pull it out and do an expand.
I could take my 648 TBK, (older than 11.0k) put it on the 2TB, let it update to 11.0k, then pull it and expand it.

I'm option to options since I have some time to plan this.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #9384
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So I have a lot of options available, but which would be easiest in the long run?
I can let my 250GB update to 11.0k, back it up, then restore it to the 2TB but not expand, make sure it's happy, then pull it out and do an expand.
I could take my 648 TBK, (older than 11.0k) put it on the 2TB, let it update to 11.0k, then pull it and expand it.

I'm option to options since I have some time to plan this.
What are you running in that 648 right now?
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:48 PM   #9385
dianebrat
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What are you running in that 648 right now?
2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.

I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:04 PM   #9386
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2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.

I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.
An experiment you could try is hooking up both drives to a PC (you might need an eSATA to SATA adapter) and seeing if WinMFS can make a truncated backup, which wouldn't have your recordings, but would have all your settings, season passes, thumb ratings, etc.

Another interesting experiment would be to hook up both drives and a single 2TB and see if it will let you select both current drives as the A and B of the source and the 2TB as the target.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #9387
dianebrat
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An experiment you could try is hooking up both drives to a PC (you might need an eSATA to SATA adapter) and seeing if WinMFS can make a truncated backup, which wouldn't have your recordings, but would have all your settings, season passes, thumb ratings, etc.

Another interesting experiment would be to hook up both drives and a single 2TB and see if it will let you select both current drives as the A and B of the source and the 2TB as the target.
I can do that..I thought it wasn't possible in the S3 with WinMFS but it's win/win since I lose no data and I have enough SATA ports in the test bed to do it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #9388
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I can do that..I thought it wasn't possible in the S3 with WinMFS but it's win/win since I lose no data and I have enough SATA ports in the test bed to do it.
As far as I know WinMFS will treat the source drive(s) as read-only, and I certainly would expect spike to have taken care that it be so, but not having created it, I can't absolutely guarantee it.

But if you try it, hurry back and tell us what happened.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:34 PM   #9389
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As far as I know WinMFS will treat the source drive(s) as read-only, and I certainly would expect spike to have taken care that it be so, but not having created it, I can't absolutely guarantee it.

But if you try it, hurry back and tell us what happened.
LOL.. I'm just lining my ducks up in a row this week, I'm at least a week away from giving anything a try.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:29 AM   #9390
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2x 1.0TB drives, as far as I know that means I'm SOL because they're striped and I don't want to divorce them in case I have to go back because the 2TB doesn't work out.

I really like the idea of backing up the data, pulling them as a pair, doing all my testing on the new 2TB and if it fails I can go back to the existing drives full of content.
Combining the data from 2 drives to a single larger drive is possible. As, Dvr_dude offered such a service a couple of years ago, when I inquired for my 648250B.
Unfortunately I do not know how he is moving the data.
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