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Old 01-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #9331
Leigh7757
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I'm sorry if this has been covered somewhere, but I'm looking for a little clarification on the plug and play drives. I keep seeing that if I upgrade/change my internal HD, that the external plug and play drive will no longer work, but no background information as to why.

Losing recordings makes sense with respect to the fact that the data is broken up across the drives, so all data on both drives needs to be present for the recordings to work. I'm not really clear on why I would lose my recordings after the date of adding the plug and play expansion drive if I use something like EZ GIG IV to clone the existing internal hard drive to a new internal hard drive. As I understand it, cloning a drive should produce a drive that contains the same information.

I also am not understanding why a plug and play drive will allegedly not work at all after installing a new internal drive. Again, I'm making the assumption that the new internal drive is a clone of the previous one.

I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options.

All I want to do is take out the internal drive, clone it onto a new drive, and put the new one back in. I just did this to a laptop so it's not a foreign concept. I was hoping a repair on the TiVo would be as easy, but it's looking like it won't be. For the sake of argument, let's say I want to replace it with a drive of the same size as the current internal drive.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:49 AM   #9332
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Originally Posted by Leigh7757 View Post
I'm sorry if this has been covered somewhere, but I'm looking for a little clarification on the plug and play drives. I keep seeing that if I upgrade/change my internal HD, that the external plug and play drive will no longer work, but no background information as to why.

Losing recordings makes sense with respect to the fact that the data is broken up across the drives, so all data on both drives needs to be present for the recordings to work. I'm not really clear on why I would lose my recordings after the date of adding the plug and play expansion drive if I use something like EZ GIG IV to clone the existing internal hard drive to a new internal hard drive. As I understand it, cloning a drive should produce a drive that contains the same information.

I also am not understanding why a plug and play drive will allegedly not work at all after installing a new internal drive. Again, I'm making the assumption that the new internal drive is a clone of the previous one.

I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options.

All I want to do is take out the internal drive, clone it onto a new drive, and put the new one back in. I just did this to a laptop so it's not a foreign concept. I was hoping a repair on the TiVo would be as easy, but it's looking like it won't be. For the sake of argument, let's say I want to replace it with a drive of the same size as the current internal drive.
You should get replies that are more expert than mine, but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work. If you clone to a larger internal drive (and "expand", adding more partitions to the internal drive), I don't know whether that could work, but I would guess maybe not.

In any case, do run manufacturer diagnostic scans on any drive before you assume it's failing. And you could try a different eSATA cable on the external drive, since eSATA doesn't seem to be a very reliable connection method.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #9333
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I'm curious because my TiVo S3 has crashed and green-screened three times in the past two weeks and I'm starting to suspect that the internal hard drive is failing. I'm going to run diagnostics this afternoon to see whether my suspicions are correct, but in the meantime I'm exploring my repair options.
Have you investigated the possibility of "capacitor plague?"
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #9334
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You should get replies that are more expert than mine, but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work. If you clone to a larger internal drive (and "expand", adding more partitions to the internal drive), I don't know whether that could work, but I would guess maybe not.

In any case, do run manufacturer diagnostic scans on any drive before you assume it's failing. And you could try a different eSATA cable on the external drive, since eSATA doesn't seem to be a very reliable connection method.
Thanks, that was my suspicion. I do plan to run the diagnostics before I do anything, but as I was doing a little research I was coming up blank on the reasons that a cloned drive wouldn't work since nothing said it wouldn't work specifically with a larger drive.

The eSATA cable might be an issue since a non-human knocked it off of where it was sitting and jammed it nicely behind the entertainment center in the first week we had it, but it has worked fine in the year since. I'll be sure to check that if the drive diagnostics come back okay.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #9335
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You should get replies that are more expert than mine,
but I think if you clone the internal drive to a functionally identical replacement drive, your external drive should still work.
Leigh7757
I am not an "expert" on this subject.
But I can confirm that the above statement is true.
As I have done just that with a Seagate Barracuda drive of the same size (replaced a 250 TiVo with Seagate 250 using dd to copy/clone original drive.)
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #9336
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Leigh7757
I am not an "expert" on this subject.
But I can confirm that the above statement is true.
As I have done just that with a Seagate Barracuda drive of the same size (replaced a 250 TiVo with Seagate 250 using dd to copy/clone original drive.)
Thanks. Honestly, someone giving me an example of it working or not working was what I was looking for, so this was perfect. I know it doesn't guarantee it'll work for me if I take that path, but it makes me a little more optimistic.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:46 PM   #9337
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While you have your Tivo open, check for bulging capacitors in the power supply as it can cause issues as well.

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Old 01-30-2013, 01:31 PM   #9338
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It sounds like on your internal drive you are okay. Need to check your external drive as with diagnostics.

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Old 01-30-2013, 03:02 PM   #9339
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You need to suspect the power supply, both drives, and the eSATA cable.

If you "Xerox" the internal drive to a larger one and then expand into the extra space, you'll possibly confuse whatever system TiVo uses to spread recordings over both drives.

I seem to recall reading that one could only add an external to the various S3 models if one had not already replaced the internal drive with a larger one.

My personal preference for hard drive "Xeroxing" is to use

dd_rescue

on the MFS Live cd v1.4, with the verbose option invoked.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:26 AM   #9340
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While you have your Tivo open, check for bulging capacitors in the power supply as it can cause issues as well.

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Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
It sounds like on your internal drive you are okay. Need to check your external drive as with diagnostics.

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You need to suspect the power supply, both drives, and the eSATA cable.

I do intend on running diagnostics on everything, but I'll be sure to visually check for bulging capacitors if the drives say they're okay. It's going to take a little while for me to get another eSATA cable, so maybe I'll open it before I check that bit. I've already opened the box in the past (to fix the plasma tv interference with the remote sensor) and I'm way out of warranty, so it won't hurt to open it up. I meant to get to this last night, but it didn't happen, so the cause of the issue is still a mystery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If you "Xerox" the internal drive to a larger one and then expand into the extra space, you'll possibly confuse whatever system TiVo uses to spread recordings over both drives.

I seem to recall reading that one could only add an external to the various S3 models if one had not already replaced the internal drive with a larger one.

I keep reading that also, but none of the places I saw it cite any sources. Maybe it's just user experience? I guess it makes sense that TiVo isn't looking to tell everyone how it splits the recordings up.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:33 AM   #9341
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.........
I keep reading that also, but none of the places I saw it cite any sources. Maybe it's just user experience? I guess it makes sense that TiVo isn't looking to tell everyone how it splits the recordings up.
You're getting the picture now. It's ALL just user exerience.

I don't know what size your drives are but I think you will probably save yourself a lot of hassle, and probably money in the long run, by just scrapping (or re-purposing) both of them and upgrading to a new 2 TB internal (WD20EURS) which can be done for $100.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:47 AM   #9342
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You're getting the picture now. It's ALL just user exerience...
You mean you never got your copy of "The Official TiVo, Inc., Guide To Doing All Those Things We Never Intended For You To Do Or For Us To Have To Explain To You"?
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:34 AM   #9343
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You mean you never got your copy of "The Official TiVo, Inc., Guide To Doing All Those Things We Never Intended For You To Do Or For Us To Have To Explain To You"?
I'm waiting for you and co-author lrhorer to finish it. I bet you're having a lot of trouble editing his verbosity down to fit a reasonable page length goal.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:17 AM   #9344
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Thanks. Honestly, someone giving me an example of it working or not working was what I was looking for, so this was perfect. I know it doesn't guarantee it'll work for me if I take that path, but it makes me a little more optimistic.
You're welcome.
The great thing about this forum, there is little chaff to sift, to get to the desired information.
And rarely is there blatant misinformation posted. And, when it does appear it's quickly corrected.

Additionally.
There is a guy (dvr_dude) on ebay that can combine the recordings from a TiVo internal and external drive and put them on one internal drive of larger size.
He offers 2TB upgrades for S3 TiVos, of which I have in my S3-OLED TiVo.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:41 AM   #9345
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OK. My MyDVRExpander drive failed and I've read through the upgrade instructions for Tivo HD. I've decided on an internal HD upgrade using WinMFS. Trouble is, the MFSLive forum doesn't give me an option for registering so I can't login to download the program. The MFSLive Forum home page doesn't even give me a way to contact the administrators. Is the site down? Are the board administrators on vacation?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:50 AM   #9346
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You could use JMFS since you mentioned it was a S3HD.

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Old 02-02-2013, 09:27 AM   #9347
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OK. My MyDVRExpander drive failed and I've read through the upgrade instructions for Tivo HD. I've decided on an internal HD upgrade using WinMFS. Trouble is, the MFSLive forum doesn't give me an option for registering so I can't login to download the program. The MFSLive Forum home page doesn't even give me a way to contact the administrators. Is the site down? Are the board administrators on vacation?
PM sent.

Don't mention it.

Seriously, don't.


What drive do you plan to use for the upgrade?

Does your PC have a GigaByte brand motherboard?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:00 PM   #9348
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What drive do you plan to use for the upgrade?

Does your PC have a GigaByte brand motherboard?
I've got a WD AV-GP 1 TB AV Hard Drive that I plan to use. My PC has an ASUS motherboard.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:00 PM   #9349
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You could use JMFS since you mentioned it was a S3HD.

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Thanks!
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:04 PM   #9350
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Thanks!
Better to use WinMFS since you're only going to use a 1TB drive.

Then later you can still use jmfs to expand that onto a 2TB drive.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:10 PM   #9351
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Better to use WinMFS since you're only going to use a 1TB drive.

Then later you can still use jmfs to expand that onto a 2TB drive.
Thanks so much for your help!
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:00 PM   #9352
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Going on a couple of weeks since upgrading my 160GB Tivo HD to 2GB. Replaced the stock 160GB drive with a WD20EURS. Used jmfs to copy and expand and then WinMFS to turn on supersize. Working perfect. Preserved all my recordings, season passes and settings. Thanks to everyone that made this possible!
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:43 AM   #9353
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Newegg.com has the Western Digital WD Green WD20EARX 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive for $84.99 with promo code EMCXVWV34.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:37 AM   #9354
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After ploughing through the posts here, it seems that the recommended path to get to 2TB from a virgin 648 is:

- Use WinMfs to expand 256GB to 1 TB
- Use MJFS to copy 1 TB to 2TB
- Use WinMFS to SuperSize the 2TB

My 1TB 648's disk died without warning. Pulled it out, and all it does is run re-calibrates every few seconds. It is not recognized by Tivo or the PC. I tried leaving it in the freezer overnight in the hope that it would come up for the few minutes needed to run a truncated backup. Losing the recordings is one thing, re-building the scheduled and suggested programs is another.

With nothing to copy, it was like upgrading from scratch and I saw no mention of a procedure which does not require an intermediate drive and subsequent copying. Below is the single stage WinMFS process I tried which appears to have worked.

If you don't have a .tbk of your original 256GB drive you can download one from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/648250b.tbk (the time to complete is less if you Restore from your machine's .tbk - mine was 11.0g, and so too is the download).

WinMFS/File/Restore .tbk (with swap space set to 512)
- "You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?"
- No

WinMFS/Tools/MFSadd
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@488395842 ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 3418624000@488397890 ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

WinMFS/Tools/MFS SuperSize
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@488395842 ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 3418624000@488397890 ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Partitions 1-13 are same as listed in Post #9253

Install 2TB drive in 648

a) If you restore with 648250b.tbk you have to go through initialization, and about 45 minutes later you can pick up at step b).

b) Clear & Delete Everything.

c) Go through initialization and about 45 minutes later you have a fully functional 2TB Tivo.

System Information shows the unit has a capacity of 318 HD hours and 2776 SD hours.

There could be a disaster waiting in the wings, so will not feel confident until next week, as two things remain to be done:

1) The software is still at 11.0g and if it does not upgrade to 11.0k in the next couple of days will have to force a kickstart (I expected the software to have been updated during inititalization and/or the reboot after initialization).

2) Recording have been set to start on the sixth hour every day for 5:55 on two HD channels to build up the hours as quickly as possible. At approximately 40 hours/day for 8 days the Tivo should start reclaiming space to record the "Until I Delete" programs.

If something goes south, will report back, but at the moment am feeling optimistic.


BTW, if you happen to respond Yes to Restore's offer to Expand, WinMFS will create an Apple partition. If you do respond Yes accidentally, drop back to Restore and be more careful the second time the question is asked.

WinMFS/View/MFSInfo/
- 14 Apple_Free Extra 3417845567 489183600 (1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 259 Total DTV SD Hours: 226 99 % Free

Tivo's naming conventions make S3 HD and HD very ambiguous - the 648 and 652 are both Series 3 HD models. Unicon has pleaded a couple of times for writers to use model codes, and it would certainly help to improve readability if his request was honored.

Last edited by jonapt : 02-20-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:45 AM   #9355
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After ploughing through the posts here, it seems that the recommended path to get to 2TB from a virgin 648 is:

- Use WinMfs to expand 256GB to 1 TB
- Use MJFS to copy 1 TB to 2TB
- Use WinMFS to SuperSize the 2TB

My 1TB 648's disk died without warning. Pulled it out, and all it does is run re-calibrates every few seconds. It is not recognized by Tivo or the PC. I tried leaving it in the freezer overnight in the hope that it would come up for the few minutes needed to run a truncated backup. Losing the recordings is one thing, re-building the scheduled and suggested programs is another.

With nothing to copy, it was like upgrading from scratch and I saw no mention of a procedure which does not require an intermediate drive and subsequent copying. Below is the single stage WinMFS process I tried which appears to have worked.

If you don't have a .tbk of your original 256GB drive you can download one from http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/648250b.tbk (the time to complete is less if you Restore from your machine's .tbk - mine was 11.0g, and so too is the download).

WinMFS/File/Restore .tbk
- "You have extra capacity on your Hard drive. Do you want to expand?"
- No

WinMFS/Tools/MFSadd
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@488395842 ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 3418624000@488397890 ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

WinMFS/Tools/MFS SuperSize
- 14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@488395842 ( 1.0M)
- 15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 3418624000@488397890 ( 1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 2082 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 100 % Free
- Software: 11.0g-01-2-648 Tivo Model: TCD648250B

Partitions 1-13 are same as listed in Post #9253

Install 2TB drive in 648

a) If you restore with 648250b.tbk you have to go through initialization, and about 45 minutes later you can pick up at step b).

b) Clear & Delete Everything.

c) Go through initialization and about 45 minutes later you have a fully functional 2TB Tivo.

System Information shows the unit has a capacity of 318 HD hours and 2776 SD hours.

There could be a disaster waiting in the wings, so will not feel confident until next week, as two things remain to be done:

1) The software is still at 11.0g and if it does not upgrade to 11.0k in the next couple of days will have to force a kickstart (I expected the software to have been updated during inititalization and/or the reboot after initialization).

2) Recording have been set to start on the sixth hour every day for 5:55 on two HD channels to build up the hours as quickly as possible. At approximately 40 hours/day for 8 days the Tivo should start reclaiming space to record the "Until I Delete" programs.

If something goes south, will report back, but at the moment am feeling optimistic.


BTW, if you happen to respond Yes to Restore's offer to Expand, WinMFS will create an Apple partition. If you do respond Yes accidentally, drop back to Restore and be more careful the second time the question is asked.

WinMFS/View/MFSInfo/
- 14 Apple_Free Extra 3417845567 489183600 (1.6T)
- Total SA SD Hours: 259 Total DTV SD Hours: 226 99 % Free

Tivo's naming conventions make S3 HD and HD very ambiguous - the 648 and 652 are both Series 3 HD models. Unicon has pleaded a couple of times for writers to use model codes, and it would certainly help to improve readability if his request was honored.

Don't unhitch that plough just yet.

As far as is known, jmfs will not recognize a 648 drive as a TiVo drive, even though it will recognize a 652 drive.

So instead of getting WinMFS to add a 14th and 15th partition, and then getting jmfs to add a 16th, as can be done with the S3 HD, one has to settle for WinMFS adding a 14th and 15th with the 15th, the MFS Media partition, being over 1.2TB in size.

However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #9356
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However, it's starting to look as though if one has version 11.0k of the TiVo OS on one's drive, one can use just WinMFS to upgrade a 652 or even a 648 to 2TB without having to do any hex editing--currently awaiting experimental results.
This is what I have done to my 648 and has been working well for past 4 months.
Jim

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Old 02-19-2013, 01:27 PM   #9357
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This is what I have done to my 648 and has been working well for past 4 months.
Jim

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Please define "this" more specifically.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:23 PM   #9358
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Please define "this" more specifically.
This. My 648 was expanded to 1TB already. Used WinMFS to copy to 2TB then had it expand it. It partition 15 is now about 1.6TB in size.

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Old 02-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #9359
unitron
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Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
This. My 648 was expanded to 1TB already. Used WinMFS to copy to 2TB then had it expand it. It partition 15 is now about 1.6TB in size.

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Excellent. I assume you used WinMFS to take it to 1TB, but even if you used the MFS Live cd and had a little Apple Free partition on the end, which jmfs wouldn't be able to overcome if jmfs could recognize 648 drives in the first place, WinMFS knows how to change them over to used space with no problem.

So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.

No hex editing necessary.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #9360
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So the 648 up to 2TB method is make sure you're running 11.0k and then do it with WinMFS.

No hex editing necessary.
Yes that is correct. The method I used was using WinMFS only when doing the expansion. (WinMFS was used with the initial expansion to 1TB and then later to 2TB) The OS version is 11.0k. That is the only version I have tested.

When I was looking to expand to 2TB, I did experiment with the hex editing method which worked as well but in the end it was not necessary.

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