The Tivo Mini lives....

[Dan203]

With the way it works now it makes sense that it doesn't work with the 2 tuner boxes. The current option allows you to dedicate 1 or 2 tuners to the Mini for live TV. And when that option is set those tuners are removed from the pool available to the local unit. If they offered the same option for 2 tuner units then it would be possible to make it so the TiVo itself had no tuners and couldn't record anything.

Rather then wasting time and effort into educating consumers as to why it works differently on the 4 tuner unit then it does the 2 tuner unit, it's probably easier for the sales and support staff to just say it only works with a 4 tuner unit. Once DTA is functional they might expand it to 2 tuner boxes, but there is no guarantee. There would still be the issue with Mini's possibly taking to many tuners and causing the main box not to be able to record anything. And who knows how that might effect the scheduler.

Perhaps the next gen TiVos will have 3 and 6 tuners, instead of 2 and 4. That would allow the 3 tuner unit to dedicate at least 1 tuner to a Mini without compromise and 2 with the ability to still function. Plus the naming conventions would allow them to differentiate between the current units. (i.e. Premiere XL3 and XL6)

[BigJimOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Jonathan_S

The mini wouldn't have to pre-decide which to take up; it'd take one 'logical' tuner and have access to cable or OTA depending on the channel selected (just like through the normal user interface).

Does that assume the Mini could actually do that, today? That's kinda my point.

[moyekj]

As mentioned many times now they should allow 2 tuner Premiere units as Mini hosts without live tv capability - better than not at all which seems to be the current plan...

[RichB]

Originally Posted by moyekj

As mentioned many times now they should allow 2 tuner Premiere units as Mini hosts without live tv capability - better than not at all which seems to be the current plan...

Yep. I have them lying around.
Especially, if you many rooms and few people

I have to follow that robot fight around the house.

- Rich

[BigJimOutlaw]

I'm thinking they have a problem with their pricing if they tried to sell it strictly as a recording streamer to those people. As it is, nobody's happy about the fees inflating the final cost to anywhere between $200-$300. Reduce functionality further and it gets silly.

I mean, I wouldn't pay $250, $300 just for that. I don't want to pay that even with TV tuning.

[aaronwt]

I think taking away any tuner would compromise the box. Anytime you have four concurrent recordings scheduled, you would be screwed.

Still though, I wish the Mini was out yesterday. I still want to get one so I can get rid of my third cable card.

[RichB]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

I think taking away any tuner would compromise the box. Anytime you have four concurrent recordings scheduled, you would be screwed.

Still though, I wish the Mini was out yesterday. I still want to get one so I can get rid of my third cable card.

If there are two recordings going, you have to cancel or watch one of those or something that is being records.

It is really no different than streaming.

It does not seem to screw the IPAD app. Just use that method for a 2 TiVo unit. This seems to more a business concern than a technical problem.

- Rich

[moyekj]

Originally Posted by RichB

It does not seem to screw the IPAD app. Just use that method for a 2 TiVo unit. This seems to more a business concern than a technical problem.

The iPad app way of creating a bunch of recording clips and not cleaning up after itself is a very poor hack and I would be disgusted at TiVo if they released the Mini that way. I'd say better no live TV at all than that hack.

[Bigg]

Are there any reviews of this thing out yet? Like in the field? We know there are some out there on Suddenlink, although we don't know how many.

[Jonathan_S]

Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw

Does that assume the Mini could actually do that, today? That's kinda my point.

Today I believe that the 2-tuner Premiere software won't allow a mini to take any tuners; so it's kind of a moot point.

But if they enabled it I can't imagine why it would need to lock to only 1 of the physical tuners; none of the rest of the user interface acts that way.

[jcthorne]

Originally Posted by swerver

I really dislike the 4 tuner restriction. In my case, I only have 2 tvs. My main tv has a 2 tuner tivo, and then my bedroom tv currently just has qam and internet streaming as I couldn't stand paying for a cable box up there any more, since I don't use it much. If I want to use a mini with a 2 tuner tivo, why does tivo care? I'm certainly not upgrading to a 4 tuner just for this if that's what they are thinking. For me it would be perfectly fine, since most of the time the bedroom tv gets used, the main tv is off anyway. Maybe I should just run an hdmi splitter like I see others doing and use wifi remote. This is what tivo is pushing me toward with this rule. I will happily hand over my money for the mini but I'm not upgrading the main tivo, so they are shooting themselves in the foot IMO. I don't follow how this restriction brings any benefit for them. I'd buy another tivo but again, I just hate paying monthly for my bedroom tv and 2nd cable card costs here are high.

Is there any hope that they will do away with the 4 tuner restriction?

Just install a small 2 tuner tivo at the bedroom tv. Problem solved. Yes its just a bit more expensive than a mini but not as much as most folks think. In the end only about $150 more for a full function tivo over the mini which has alot less features.

[sbiller]

Originally Posted by jcthorne

Just install a small 2 tuner tivo at the bedroom tv. Problem solved. Yes its just a bit more expensive than a mini but not as much as most folks think. In the end only about $150 more for a full function tivo over the mini which has alot less features.

If the Mini is a lot faster than the Premiere because of a faster internal processor, than it could be a better alternative for a bedroom TV... no need for a Roku, etc. That statement, of course, makes the assumption that Netflix, Amazon, and other services will be made available on the Mini. I wouldn't hesitate to pick the Mini over a 2-tuner Premiere if it rendered the HDUI at 2x the speed. This would result in a better user experience. Of course, there will be some compromises with the Mini that need to be accounted for including the loss of tuner on the gateway DVR.

For me, the simplicity of only needing to manage recordings on one DVR is another benefit. I will likely move to a 6-tuner box when its available especially if it comes with a faster user experience.

[jadziedzic]

Originally Posted by jcthorne

Yes its just a bit more expensive than a mini but not as much as most folks think. In the end only about $150 more for a full function tivo over the mini which has alot less features.

Unless you live in Comcast land where you have to pay about $8/month - forever - for an "additional digital outlet fee" for the TiVo with a CableCARD at that bedroom TV. A $200 mini would pay for itself in about two years, and saves $100 per year afterward compared to a TiVo unit with a CableCARD.

Not really "just a bit more expensive", especially if you have more than one secondary digital outlet.

[crxssi]

Originally Posted by sbiller

If the Mini is a lot faster than the Premiere because of a faster internal processor, than it could be a better alternative for a bedroom TV...

And it would have no hard drive to fail. And it would be physically a lot smaller. Might also be quieter with no fan. Plus it is cheaper.

Too bad it is unnecessarily incompatible with probably 95% of the installed TiVo userbase.

[crxssi]

Originally Posted by jadziedzic

Unless you live in Comcast land where you have to pay about $8/month - forever - for an "additional digital outlet fee" for the TiVo with a CableCARD at that bedroom TV. A $200 mini would pay for itself in about two years, and saves $100 per year afterward compared to a TiVo unit with a CableCARD.

Not really "just a bit more expensive", especially if you have more than one secondary digital outlet.

I have said this seemingly a dozen times. But I guess I have to say it again...

Unless you give a damn about "live" TV, which probably the vast majority of TiVo users don't, then there is no need for a cable card or connection to cable for a remote viewing/streaming device. Even if it is just a regular TiVo. So you can't necessarily make a cost comparison that way.

[davezatz]

Originally Posted by crxssi

Unless you give a damn about "live" TV, which probably the vast majority of TiVo users don't, then there is no need for a cable card or connection to cable for a remote viewing/streaming device.

I probably watch more "live" and OTT TV content, than DVR-ed video. Am I the exception or the rule? (And, of course, TiVo wants to sell the solution to more than just existing TiVo retail customers - which is a generally diminishing number.)

[sbiller]

Originally Posted by davezatz

I probably watch more "live" and OTT TV content, than DVR-ed video. Am I the exception or the rule? (And, of course, TiVo wants to sell the solution to more than just existing TiVo retail customers - which is a generally diminishing number.)

I personally watch quite a bit of live TV -- mostly news and sports.

Regarding your diminishing numbers, IF TiVo reported Premiere users on a quarterly basis, I believe that number is growing. They continue to bleed series 2 and series 3 subscribers at a higher rate.

Here is a quote from Tom Rogers at the Nov 29, 2012 JP Morgan conference,

Oh, churn was -- we had probably our best churn rate in many years. That churn rate is usually a function of older units, often standard definition older TiVo, still coming off the churn we find on our newer products that provide the full integration of existing television and broadband TV as -- is a very small churn rate, well below the published number [1.4%].

[overFEDEXed]

Originally Posted by crxssi

I have said this seemingly a dozen times. But I guess I have to say it again...

Unless you give a damn about "live" TV, which probably the vast majority of TiVo users don't, then there is no need for a cable card or connection to cable for a remote viewing/streaming device. Even if it is just a regular TiVo. So you can't necessarily make a cost comparison that way.

I just switched to a Cox Cable, Economy package. http://ww2.cox.com/residential/middl...l-listings.cox With Spring just around the corner, we really don't need that many channels so...

I was paying $83 a month, including cards and Gateway fees, for three Tivos. Now, I'm paying $35 for around 60 channels.
This is the strange part, that $35 includes the three cable cards and Gateway fees. (If the rep gave me the correct info, which i doubt) Those fees were around $14. ($6 for three cards and $8 for two gateways)

I wanted the mini's, so that I could get rid of two cable cards and gateway fees. Now, if this will be my true cost, when I get my bill, I will have to rethink my Tivo mini strategy.

I am losing a few channels, that I kind of liked, but nothing critical.

[RichB]

Originally Posted by crxssi

And it would have no hard drive to fail. And it would be physically a lot smaller. Might also be quieter with no fan. Plus it is cheaper.

Too bad it is unnecessarily incompatible with probably 95% of the installed TiVo userbase.

That would be nice.
The TiVo Stream is small yet sounds like a toy helicopter

- Rich

[RichB]

Originally Posted by davezatz

I probably watch more "live" and OTT TV content, than DVR-ed video. Am I the exception or the rule? (And, of course, TiVo wants to sell the solution to more than just existing TiVo retail customers - which is a generally diminishing number.)

I can't understand this.
After all, we raise the lifetime price provide less whole house features and they still fail to flock to our solution.

My brother wanted to cut the cord but we could not come up with a cost effective solution using TiVo.

- Rich

[crxssi]

Originally Posted by davezatz

I probably watch more "live" and OTT TV content, than DVR-ed video. Am I the exception or the rule?

Wow. I would guess you are the exception. I watch absolutely nothing that is not recorded. Maybe we need a poll to figure it out. I will make one!

[crxssi]

Originally Posted by crxssi

Unless you give a damn about "live" TV, which probably the vast majority of TiVo users don't

OK, I guess I stand corrected on that part (by my own poll: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?p=952767 ). To my surprise, a lot more people use "live" TV on the TiVo than I would ever have guessed. So I am in a large minority instead of in a large majority.

Now, how important "live" TV might be to people on non-primary TV's (presumably the main use of a Mini), I can't say (since that wasn't asked). But it does point to it being an important feature for many users (one I really don't understand).

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by RichB

I can't understand this.
After all, we raise the lifetime price provide less whole house features and they still fail to flock to our solution.

The Price of a Premiere (dual tuner) with lifetime has remained about the same since it was released, with various deals along the way it has been fairly easy to buy one for around $500 and is less than a what a Tivo HD with lifetime cost when they brought lifetime service back. The premieres provides more whole house features than any other Tivo has so I am not sure how you think they are providing less.

Originally Posted by RichB

My brother wanted to cut the cord but we could not come up with a cost effective solution using TiVo.

- Rich

Note sure how to define cost effective but I do feel my three HD TiVos with lifetime, which I only use for OTA, were a good value and worth what I paid for them. There are a few options out there for an OTA DVR but I only consider the various dual tuner HD TiVos and HTPCs viable options if your interested in recording OTA HD TV and want a DVR that has good guide data, is easy to use, & is reliable. There isn't going to be much price difference between Tivos or HTPCs. I have both and like having both, I use the TiVos for DVRs and the HTPC for streaming and surfing (posting this using my HTPC on my 50 in plasma).

[jcthorne]

Originally Posted by jadziedzic

Unless you live in Comcast land where you have to pay about $8/month - forever - for an "additional digital outlet fee" for the TiVo with a CableCARD at that bedroom TV. A $200 mini would pay for itself in about two years, and saves $100 per year afterward compared to a TiVo unit with a CableCARD.

Not really "just a bit more expensive", especially if you have more than one secondary digital outlet.

A tivo works fine as an extender without a cable card. Will do everything the mini will do. Only need the cable card if you ALSO want local tuning of CATV channels. It will tune OTA and clear QAM without the cable card which the mini will not. There would be no 'digital outlet fee with out the cable card.

[mr_smits]

Originally Posted by crxssi

Might also be quieter with no fan.

I hope you are right.

[mr_smits]

Originally Posted by moyekj

The iPad app way of creating a bunch of recording clips and not cleaning up after itself is a very poor hack and I would be disgusted at TiVo if they released the Mini that way. I'd say better no live TV at all than that hack.

Tell us how you really feel.

[Time_Lord]

As I see it the big win for the TiVo mini would be the ability to watch your pre-recorded shows on another TV. A second win would be to stream live TV from one of the tuners on the TiVo - any only have a single cable card.

I wonder how this will shake up the DVR industry come June 2014... http://www.dailytech.com/FCC+to+Forc...ticle29357.htm

I'm sure somebody can find a better link but it outlines the compatibility requirements of DVR's and their ability to stream data to any unit (akak competitors units). So I would think TiVo would want to flood the market with as many of these mini's as it could before they have to start competing with everybody... Unless they are still trying to figure out which standard to use. As the old saying goes "The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from"

-TL

[crxssi]

Originally Posted by Time_Lord

I wonder how this will shake up the DVR industry come June 2014... http://www.dailytech.com/FCC+to+Forc...ticle29357.htm

I doubt it will do anything. The FCC has already proven MULTIPLE TIMES that no matter what rules they put in place, the cable companies are going to pretty much ruin them and prevent consumers from having real choice or control. The FCC has no teeth and the cable companies know it now.

[overFEDEXed]

I just saw a post, about Tivo Mini's, in the "Tivo Help Center" forum. Wish that was me that had two mini's.

Link http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=501168

[spotterman26]

Hey everybody, new poster here, been following this community waiting on the mini. I'm on Suddenlink cable in Eastern NC, and we have the mini here. I have 2 installed currently. Only had them a week. Have a premiere q in my living room, and the two minis (in a bonus room and a bedroom).
So far I'm very happy with them, minus an issue with audio not responding after automatic standby (the mini is supposed to relinquish the tuner back to the q after 1.5 hrs of inactivity, more on that later). I'm working on that.. thanks to a few helpful posts on another thread.
Setup was a pain, getting them all to communicate, took forever for them to go live on my account. Total setup time maybe 2 hours, most waiting on tivo to add them to my account. Seamless integration over moca, access to my premiere recordings and live tv. Easy to pause and resume across all 3. The dynamic sharing of the tuners hasn't been very dynamic, essentially I lost two tuners on my premiere. I'm assuming there must be an update to straighten that out at some point, at least I hope. I've got full guide access, some lag when changing channels but not bad.
Hope this is helpful!