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Old 02-15-2013, 03:11 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyis4dcats View Post
wow! are you me? Aside from mine crapping out about 2 weeks later, this is my story, including the Hitachi 1TB drive. I do have one cap with a very very slight bulge, but it was my drive that crashed.
You need to replace that capacitor before trying to diagnose anything else, although you can hook the drive up to a PC and run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on it while you're fixing the power supply.

Your drive probably crashed because it wasn't getting the power it's supposed to or the part of the motherboard that talks to the drive wasn't getting the power it needs to function properly.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:14 PM   #122
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After just taking Tivo deal to upgrade an HD to a Premiere 4 and get a lifetime on the HD for $99 - the HD stopped working within 4 days. Similar problem to another in thread where it starts powering up with Welcome Screen, and after 20 - 30 secs goes black and then starts up over again. Have a Hitachi 1TB drive installed 3yrs ago - haven't tested that yet. Don't see any bulging or leaking capacitors. Tivo support thinks power supply problem likely. Any thoughts on how to isolate the problem? Anything to listen for? Meanwhile I'll try to test the Hitachi drive.

Thanks.
Sounds like a problem communicating with the hard drive.

Which is not always the fault of the hard drive.

Do you have, or have access to, a voltmeter and do you have any experience using one?

In the meantime hook the Hitachi to a PC and run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test.

It's probably available on the Ultimate Boot CD, and it's good to have a copy of that handy anyway.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:26 PM   #123
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Yes- read this entire thread and test that hard drive. Others may recommend putting in the old drive and see what happens. Personally, I would test the Hitachi one before putting in the old drive to eliminate that as a possibility.

Different drives have different current pulls and reactions to low voltage conditions. So I would not expose a known good drive to a potential voltage problem, if you could avoid it.
Well, tried Hitachi test from download - it couldn't see the drive although Windows disk manager could. So created an iso image on CD, and tried to load. Failed with two different burners - seems that the Hitachi iso test will not handle 64 bit OS. So got out the two old Tivo disks from the HDs, and have exactly the same problem so I think all the drives are fine. Guess I could pull the drive and put it in my other HD to see if it works.

I'm not a great hand at soldering, and since I can see nothing wrong with any caps, would have to start down the list of replacing a bunch. At $99 for a new power supply, plus shipping, etc. seems to be a good portion of the cost of a new Tivo. Its only $149 for an HD replacement from Tivo, which is the same price as a new Tivo Premiere - guess I'll have to switch the innards from the other HD so I can keep the lifetime if they won't move it from one to the other.

Wish I could be surer about cap problem and replacing them.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #124
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Look for a local electronics shop to replace the caps. Since they are cheap, just have them replace all of them at the same time.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:00 PM   #125
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Tivo sales offering HD replacement at $79.99 - cheaper than a new power supply and probably not that much more than getting a bunch of caps replaced. In the end, am ordering a new Premier at $149.99 and will put my 1TB drive in it - or maybe use as extended drive. Both probably have same warranty effect, but not sure if there are still the old problems with extended drives.

Thanks to all for the help.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:04 PM   #126
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Tivo sales offering HD replacement at $79.99 - cheaper than a new power supply and probably not that much more than getting a bunch of caps replaced. In the end, am ordering a new Premier at $149.99 and will put my 1TB drive in it - or maybe use as extended drive. Both probably have same warranty effect, but not sure if there are still the old problems with extended drives.

Thanks to all for the help.
What do you mean by extended drives?
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:32 PM   #127
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Should have said expanded - I seem to remember when I upgraded my HDs to 1TB that there was also a way to add 1TB expander from a non-Tivo source. Its been awhile since I went through all the strings. There used to be a lot of problems with reboots because of expanders - I got rid of mine when I went to 1TB internal.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:10 PM   #128
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You do know that in order to use that 1TB drive in the Premiere, your going to have to re do the software, right?
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:25 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
You need to replace that capacitor before trying to diagnose anything else, although you can hook the drive up to a PC and run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on it while you're fixing the power supply.

You're drive probably crashed because it wasn't getting the power it's supposed to or the part of the motherboard that talks to the drive wasn't getting the power it needs to function properly.
yes, i already tested the drive, hitachi software said it has a problem, so it's toast.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #130
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yes, i already tested the drive, hitachi software said it has a problem, so it's toast.
Power supply still needs fixing.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:42 PM   #131
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Power supply still needs fixing.
yup, that cap just arrived in the mail today.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #132
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Looks like Im joining the bad cap club... My TiVo S3 (bought first week of availability) rebooted this afternoon and is now stuck in a reboot loop. Its not the HDD... I have a backup drive that I update periodically or such occasions and the reboot loop persists with either drive. I see 3 bulging caps on the power supply. A pair of 2200uF 6.3v and a single 2200uF 25v. Ive ordered replacements and hopefully that will get me back up and running. Fingers crossed.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:12 PM   #133
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Looks like Im joining the bad cap club... My TiVo S3 (bought first week of availability) rebooted this afternoon and is now stuck in a reboot loop. Its not the HDD... I have a backup drive that I update periodically or such occasions and the reboot loop persists with either drive. I see 3 bulging caps on the power supply. A pair of 2200uF 6.3v and a single 2200uF 25v. Ive ordered replacements and hopefully that will get me back up and running. Fingers crossed.
I wish I'd known sooner, there's a guy in Raleigh could have fixed you up with the caps at a good price, or even done the repair if you wanted.

(that would have cost more than just the caps, obviously)
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #134
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Same problem original S3 stuck in reboot loop. I had upgraded to 1 TB internal and 1 TB external drive. Put original drive back. Same. A couple of caps look like they are bulging. Will see how handy I am with a soldering iron when the parts arrive.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:26 PM   #135
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Same problem original S3 stuck in reboot loop. I had upgraded to 1 TB internal and 1 TB external drive. Put original drive back. Same. A couple of caps look like they are bulging. Will see how handy I am with a soldering iron when the parts arrive.
A soldering gun would be even better--higher wattage, more heat.

One side of the caps, the negative lead, is soldered to the ground plane and it's big and dissapates heat fairly well.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #136
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My wife says my caps arrived in the mail today... Ill install as soon as I get home. Fingers crossed!
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:39 PM   #137
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It is..... ALIVE....

Worked like a champ. Now lets see if it will last another 6.5 years...
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:00 PM   #138
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It is..... ALIVE....

Worked like a champ. Now lets see if it will last another 6.5 years...
CAPMAN!

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Old 03-23-2013, 06:49 PM   #139
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3 caps were bulging. Bought the same 11 caps from another post and replaced. Worked, S3 is back in action. Imagine that. Thanks guys.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:43 AM   #140
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Wrong caps?

Is is absolutely necessary to replace caps with the exact same voltage as specified on the cap? I picked up two 1000uf 35v caps to replace two bulging and split 1000uf 10v caps in my TCD652160 PS. Everywhere I looked online said that higher voltage is ok and safer. Maybe I just did a poor soldering job.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:00 AM   #141
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Is is absolutely necessary to replace caps with the exact same voltage as specified on the cap? I picked up two 1000uf 35v caps to replace two bulging and split 1000uf 10v caps in my TCD652160 PS. Everywhere I looked online said that higher voltage is ok and safer. Maybe I just did a poor soldering job.
Picked up from where? Radio Shack?

You need to use low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees Celsius/centigrade.

Most, and likely all of what you'd find at Radio Shack won't be low ESR and will only be rated for 85 degrees.

The uF needs to be the same.


To replace a 10V cap, you could go with 16V, maybe 25, 35's kind of pushing it.

When not operated near the rated voltage the oxide layer that works as an insulator between the conductive surfaces doesn't get and remain fully and properly formed, or something like that (been a long time since 'tronics class)

And of course you have to observe proper polarity when you replace.

You may have another cap that went, or is going, bad, that isn't showing visual signs, so checking the +5V and +12V outputs with a voltmeter is recommended.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:10 AM   #142
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Is is absolutely necessary to replace caps with the exact same voltage as specified on the cap? I picked up two 1000uf 35v caps to replace two bulging and split 1000uf 10v caps in my TCD652160 PS. Everywhere I looked online said that higher voltage is ok and safer. Maybe I just did a poor soldering job.
I'm surprised the 35V caps weren't MUCH larger than the 10V versions, to the point of being hard to fit in. When charged to rated voltage the 35V cap contains 10 times as much energy (goes with voltage squared). You don't store 10X the energy in about the same volume unless you're compromising somewhere else in the cap design (e.g., not low-ESR and lower temp rating).
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:06 PM   #143
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Replaced all the caps and the 12v (yellow wire) is only measuring around 7v and not steady 5v (red), 3v (orange), and 7v (grey) are all steady. Still getting a ticking sound out of the supply. Any ideas as to why the 12v is not coming up would be appreciated.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:19 PM   #144
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Replaced all the caps and the 12v (yellow wire) is only measuring around 7v and not steady 5v (red), 3v (orange), and 7v (grey) are all steady. Still getting a ticking sound out of the supply. Any ideas as to why the 12v is not coming up would be appreciated.
That 7 on the grey might be a little lower than it's supposed to be by a Volt or two, see if there's a sticker on the really big cap on the input side or some silk-screening on the board that lists voltages and amperages. The lowest amp figure will be the grey wire if it's not second lowest to the 3.3. The yellow and the red are the big guns.

If the grey is low, it's almost an absolute certainty that it's a side effect of whatever's drawing down the +12.

Possibly some component other than a capacitor has gone bad. Perhaps a capacitor going bad caused that other component to go bad.

But more likely...

Perhaps you put one of the capacitors in "backwards", polarity wise. There's a reason why one of the leads has either minus or plus signs down the side of body nearest it.

Perhaps you put a couple of the caps where each other should have gone, like a 1000uf where a 2200 should be and vice versa.

Perhaps you got some solder where it shouldn't be, or didn't get some where it should be.

That ticking might be part of the supply turning on, detecting too heavy a current flow, shutting down, turning back on, lather, rinse, repeat.

(Or to be really technical, magnetostriction caused by the L, R, and R process)

Do those measurements both with and without the drive hooked up.

Report back.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #145
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Thanks unitron for the quick reply. solder and cap polarity was first thing I double checked. I didn't notice the label on the big cap. It reads 3.3v-4.1a, 5.0v-8.4a, 7.5-1.9a, 12v-1.0a (orange/red/grey/yellow). I'm measuring the supply unloaded. Diodes all look good. Next to look at the MOSFET voltage regulators. Hard to debug w/o schematic.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:53 PM   #146
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... Hard to debug w/o schematic.
I feel ya, brother.

Good news is, you only need to worry about the 12V section.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:14 PM   #147
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Picked up from where? Radio Shack?

You need to use low ESR caps rated for 105 degrees Celsius/centigrade.

Most, and likely all of what you'd find at Radio Shack won't be low ESR and will only be rated for 85 degrees.

The uF needs to be the same.


To replace a 10V cap, you could go with 16V, maybe 25, 35's kind of pushing it.

When not operated near the rated voltage the oxide layer that works as an insulator between the conductive surfaces doesn't get and remain fully and properly formed, or something like that (been a long time since 'tronics class)

And of course you have to observe proper polarity when you replace.

You may have another cap that went, or is going, bad, that isn't showing visual signs, so checking the +5V and +12V outputs with a voltmeter is recommended.
Yes, Radio Shack...They fit alright but are about twice the size of the original guys. Will order low ESR ones at 10v now. Anyone have recommendations on where to get a good set online or possibly a retail store to pick up in the Stamford CT/Fairfield County region? Need two 1000uf 10v low esr.

Since Unitron thinks its possible it may need more than just the two caps, here's some background:

The system starting acting up over a year ago and it came to an abrupt failure back in December. 3 year lifetime was about to expire but I got it working again by Plug and Pray (maybe I should have traded in for same model?).

Two days ago the system was loading everything really slowly. Also, the 30 second skip button reset itself to scan to the end of the program (weird?) and I couldn't get it to go back to that functionality. I unplugged and plugged it back in, but that was my fatal mistake so I read up on the caps and looked inside my unit and found that C403 and C503 were bulging and one was leaking.

Before I replaced the two caps, the fan and hard drive turned on, but no joy on the system starting up and no power to USB ports (I had external fans connected for rack ventilation).

After I replaced the caps with the Radio Shack ones (i.e. wrong voltage and not low esr), the hard drive still turned on but the fan did not turn on anymore.

Also, I don't own a voltmeter
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:35 PM   #148
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Yes, Radio Shack...They fit alright but are about twice the size of the original guys. Will order low ESR ones at 10v now. Anyone have recommendations on where to get a good set online or possibly a retail store to pick up in the Stamford CT/Fairfield County region? Need two 1000uf 10v low esr.

Since Unitron thinks its possible it may need more than just the two caps, here's some background:

The system starting acting up over a year ago and it came to an abrupt failure back in December. 3 year lifetime was about to expire but I got it working again by Plug and Pray (maybe I should have traded in for same model?).

Two days ago the system was loading everything really slowly. Also, the 30 second skip button reset itself to scan to the end of the program (weird?) and I couldn't get it to go back to that functionality. I unplugged and plugged it back in, but that was my fatal mistake so I read up on the caps and looked inside my unit and found that C403 and C503 were bulging and one was leaking.

Before I replaced the two caps, the fan and hard drive turned on, but no joy on the system starting up and no power to USB ports (I had external fans connected for rack ventilation).

After I replaced the caps with the Radio Shack ones (i.e. wrong voltage and not low esr), the hard drive still turned on but the fan did not turn on anymore.

Also, I don't own a voltmeter
Somebody around here somewhere made a list of the caps for the 652 (not to be confused with the other list somebody made which is for the 648), but the 652, the S3 HD, used two different power supplies from two different sub-contractors.

Look at the circuit board and post the brand and model number of the power supply and we'll go from there.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #149
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Somebody around here somewhere made a list of the caps for the 652 (not to be confused with the other list somebody made which is for the 648), but the 652, the S3 HD, used two different power supplies from two different sub-contractors.

Look at the circuit board and post the brand and model number of the power supply and we'll go from there.
3Y Power Technology, P/N: 3850158312GP, REV: 1. It also says CP-1319R2 (not sure if that's the model number or not).
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #150
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3Y Power Technology, P/N: 3850158312GP, REV: 1. It also says CP-1319R2 (not sure if that's the model number or not).
Okay, that's the one made by the same outfit that made the 648 supply.

I've got one sitting out on the bench at the moment, so I'll check some old posts to see if anyone's already compiled a list for that model and if not I'll sit down with the bright light and magnifier and figure out which ones are on the +5V and +12V outputs and post that ('cause those are the ones likeliest to be bad if any are), but it might take a day or three.
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