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Old 02-11-2013, 05:42 AM   #1
igirl
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TiVo O/S got a new feature - tuner allocation

I just noticed this the other day surfing around in settings -
Settings & Messages> Settings > Remote, CableCARD, & Devices > Allow Live TV on Other Devices
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...5#instructions

To me, this is actually BAD NEWS. I have a P4 and sometimes actually record 4 shows at once!

What's it's saying is - if you add a Mini - you're going to lose a tuner permanently - unless you like going to the host Tivo and changing the setting temporarily every single time you want to also use the Mini - (or if you want to record 4 shows).

RECORDING ON THE HOST TIVO SHOULD TAKE PRIORITY over any other devices IMHO, and cut them off as needed - at least as an OPTION!!!!! But that's not an option - Add a Mini = Lose a tuner - is your only option.

That's a deal breaker for us - we won't be buying a Mini now.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:09 AM   #2
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Really old news (see the Mini threads here and in the Premiere forum), but Tivo is supposed to change this to allow for dynamic allocation at some point.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:49 AM   #3
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Really old news (see the Mini threads here and in the Premiere forum), but Tivo is supposed to change this to allow for dynamic allocation at some point.
oops - I missed that, sorry - dynamic allocation would be a wise thing to implement.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:47 AM   #4
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Even with dynamic tuner allocation I still see a need for that setting. It would still be nice to be able to control how many tuners can be used for remote live TV even if it's only allocated when in use.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:17 PM   #5
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Dan I presume that you are think about a house with multiple Minis and wanting to prevent too many tuners been taken away from the central box, correct?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #6
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Yes. Or perhaps you want to disable live TV entirely to prevent other members of your family from canceling scheduled shows in favor of watching live TV.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:46 PM   #7
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"Live TV"? What's that?
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lillevig View Post
"Live TV"? What's that?
Exactly. One of the options for the Mini should either allow no Live TV, or prevent it from being able to cancel a scheduled recording. I can't believe the folks at Tivo haven't concluded there would be a demand for this...
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #9
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"Live TV"? What's that?
I think it's another name for the news.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #10
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Exactly. One of the options for the Mini should either allow no Live TV, or prevent it from being able to cancel a scheduled recording. I can't believe the folks at Tivo haven't concluded there would be a demand for this...
Well the current option either turns it off or permanently allocates 1 or 2 tuners to remote live TV viewing. I assume once they get dynamic tuner allocation working it will work the same except that instead of permanently allocating the tuners it will only do it if the remote user requests it. I also assume that the remote user will presented with some sort of conflict message if the tuner can not be allocated due to a recording in progress. Kind of like how it works now if you're actually sitting in front of the TiVo and try to change the channel on a tuner that's recording. I don't think they'll get too crazy with the options and allow it to be on but not allow it to override a conflict. TiVo options aren't typically that specific.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Exactly. One of the options for the Mini should either allow no Live TV, or prevent it from being able to cancel a scheduled recording. I can't believe the folks at Tivo haven't concluded there would be a demand for this...
I don't care about live TV either. You have to remember TiVo's perspective and priority is the MSO market and probably live TV is a requirement there.
I'd also add that in addition to leaving the option to choose tuner allocation I'd also like to have the option to turn it on/off from Mini side.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:06 PM   #12
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I think it's another name for the news.
That's what I record almost all day from CNN. I'm still not watching it live. I watch the most recent recording.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #13
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That's what I record almost all day from CNN. I'm still not watching it live. I watch the most recent recording.
Well, if the 30 minute buffer went away (to save power), I'd be fine with that.. But CNN is one of the channels I *do* tune to on purpose to get it to buffer upů mostly to FF through late night before I go to sleepů (if I'm too tired to pay attention to a TV show, might still want news as background noise.)
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:49 AM   #14
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But TiVo makes the Preview for MSO's that has a CableCard in it, so there is no need to hijack a tuner.

I'm still glad I bought an extra Premiere and put it on my $6.95 slot. The whole idea of the mini becomes less ideal every day.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:54 AM   #15
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But TiVo makes the Preview for MSO's that has a CableCard in it, so there is no need to hijack a tuner.
Mini is also being used by MSOs. Deployment already started with Suddenlink.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:01 AM   #16
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I love the "it doesn't matter to me, so it must not be important" comments.

Well, let me chime in. I do use live TV - a lot and I also use the 30 minute buffer - a lot.

Heck - I have been known to put the tuner on a live show, then switch over and watch a 30 minute recording skipping the comercials and dropping back down to the begining of the live buffer.

I will also change the channel on the TiVo without even turning the TV on, just to let the buffer fill up on the news or sports event I am interested in.

And yes - late in the evening, I still find myself bored and channel surfing from time to time.

I do want dynamic tuner allocation on my TiVo mini - and will probably wait to purchase one until it is available.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:35 PM   #17
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Exclamation

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The whole idea of the mini becomes less ideal every day.

Yea, I have been holding out to see what these minis offer. Was gonna put 1 or 2 in a basement area where they aren't used a lot. However, I'm now thinking I might be better off just getting an older Series 3, lifetime it at $99 (if able with a future Premiere purchase) and sticking a cable card in it for about $1.50/month.

Yea, I realize I'll lose multi-room streaming, but will at least have dedicated live tv, multi-room transfer and netflix options.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #18
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But TiVo makes the Preview for MSO's that has a CableCard in it, so there is no need to hijack a tuner.
I think they might end up discontinuing those in favor of the Mini. The Premiere 4 + Mini setup is just easier for MSOs to deal with. And if the customer is already use to only having a 2 tuner DVR then allocating 1 or 2 tuners for live TV on the Mini(s) isn't a big deal.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:14 PM   #19
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I will also change the channel on the TiVo without even turning the TV on, just to let the buffer fill up on the news or sports event I am interested in.

And yes - late in the evening, I still find myself bored and channel surfing from time to time.

I do want dynamic tuner allocation on my TiVo mini - and will probably wait to purchase one until it is available.
+1 on filling the buffer before viewing - this is usually a morning filler show for me before I get going for the day - but it still gives enough lead to comskip.

My husband channel surfs live TV. Often when he goes to bed 2 hours before me. Having him cutting off active recordings or channels I'm watching with a Mini would be REALLY BAD. So for now he'll just get base cable in that room.

FWIW we have a Tivo Stream as well - and it really sucks that AirPlay is disabled on the iPad app - so there is no mirroring iPad/Tivo to a bigger screen -
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #20
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I don't think live TV on the Mini is going to work exactly the same as sitting in front of the TiVo itself, even after they get dynamic tuner allocation working. For example you'll likely have to specifically request live TV, via the button or menu, rather then it simply timing out to live TV like it does on the TiVo itself. That way if you have multiple Minis but only allotted 1 tuner to remote live TV then only the Mini that actually needs the tuner will grab it. For the same reason they'll likely make it so live TV on the Mini times out after a certain amount of inactivity and the tuner is deallocated any time you're in the menus. That way you don't have to worry about not being able to use one Mini because the other one was accidentally left on live TV. Which means that tuning to a live channel, pausing it, and then watching something recorded why the buffer fills up may not work exactly as expected. If another Mini request the tuner, or TiVo decides to record a Suggestion, that tuner will likely appear as available and get used. You'll also likely only ever have access to one tuner on the Mini no matter how many you have allocated to remote viewing on the host TiVo. So swapping back and forth between multiple live shows like you can on a real TiVo probably wont be possible either.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:48 AM   #21
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Just for laughs I went back and checked to see how my Tivo Stream w/iPad does Live TV -

I currently do not have the "Allow Live TV on Other Devices" setting on - it is OFF.
Interesting - obviously a not quite "done" feature as I was able to watch Live TV on the iPad - regardless of this setting. Maybe it's already dynamically allocating a tuner then?
[EDIT] DOH - no - the setting probably IS WORKING! Since it couldn't see the Live TV - it likely started a recording to make a recorded show instead!***

The Stream actually starts recording the show when one selects Live TV*** ...presumably to allow for buffer to fill and feed the Stream? Strange when I first got the Stream I don't ever remember it starting a recording when Live TV was selected, but it's been a while since I played with that. We had always used our EyeTV system for watching Live TV on iPads anyway.

I haven't tested what it would do if called into service while 4 shows are recording on a P4 - that rarely happens - and I wouldn't want to mess them up when it does. I could set up 4 fake recordings and test, but I'm short on time for that right now.

In any event, it seems like the Tivo Mini is going to be quite similar to using a Stream then? Maybe the only difference is watching on iPad vs HDMI out to other viewing devices. It only makes sense of course that it needs to consume a tuner to do what it's supposed to do. It would get messy though if multiple Minis and Streams were on just one P4.

***I need to test further now to verify my theory on recording vs Live TV
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:11 AM   #22
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The Stream does not yet use this feature. The Stream uses sort of a hack where if you pick something from live Tv it simply starts recording the program and then starts streaming that, leaving behind a partial recording when it's done. It does not have a continuous live 30 minute buffer like the real TiVo, or presumably the Mini, has. Although I bet that they will eventually allow real live TV via the Stream. It's just that it was released before this option existed so that trick was the only way to make it work.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:57 PM   #23
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I think Tivo should have released a first generation mini that didn't have the ability to allocate and tuner and then a second generation mini that could allocate a tuner.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #24
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They did, it was called a Preview. It had it's own built in tuner and required it's own CableCARD to tune live TV. It was never released at retail though.

These devices are mainly aimed at the MSO market. That's why the Mini is currently available to MSOs but still not available to retail yet.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #25
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They did, it was called a Preview. It had it's own built in tuner and required it's own CableCARD to tune live TV. It was never released at retail though.

These devices are mainly aimed at the MSO market. That's why the Mini is currently available to MSOs but still not available to retail yet.
I was thinking of a mini no tuner allocation and no built in tuner.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:25 AM   #26
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They did, it was called a Preview. It had it's own built in tuner and required it's own CableCARD to tune live TV. It was never released at retail though.

These devices are mainly aimed at the MSO market. That's why the Mini is currently available to MSOs but still not available to retail yet.
You would think TiVo could have sold the Preview at retail. If the device is already built why not release it to another channel?
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:32 PM   #27
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They may not have been able to get the numbers to work... Not enough savings over a base Premier to make the product viable in the retail market.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:38 PM   #28
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Probably that. The Mini should be cheaper and they can sell it on the fact that it does not require another CableCARD.
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