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Old 01-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #1
stevewjackson
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Tuning Adapter and TiVo Suggestions stop?

I've searched and found a handful of threads indicating that some people are having issues with their TiVo Suggestions not recording, or having a precipitous drop-off, after getting a Tuning Adapter. I'm wondering whether anyone has insights and/or info on a possible solution.

I switched to Charter recently and discovered when the installers arrived that they use SDV in my area. They brought me a pair of Motorola TAs. At first, both our TiVos (one TiVo HD and one Premiere) kept recording suggestions as always. But after a few days elapsed, I found that no more were recording. Searching these forums and elsewhere (including TiVo's own forums) has not yielded anything definitive.

So...anybody heard anything new? Any potential fixes? I *really* miss my TiVo Suggestions!
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:19 PM   #2
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There are a few threads where they're putting the TA on a timer and flipping it on/off in the middle of the night to resolve the issue.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:26 AM   #3
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There are a few threads where they're putting the TA on a timer and flipping it on/off in the middle of the night to resolve the issue.
I've seen some threads like that too, including some things on TiVo's own forums. But that's a really unpalatable solution. In fact, it's not really a solution at all -- just a really unpleasant workaround. I'm still hoping for something far better.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:10 AM   #4
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Don't get your hopes up.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:40 AM   #5
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How does the Tuning Adapter know that the recording is a suggestion?

Why would a Suggestion fail to record any more than any other SDV channel recording?
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:31 AM   #6
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Thats what I have been wondering myself.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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I thought this only was an issue with the Series 3.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:59 AM   #8
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The problem showed up on the Premiere as well after the recent updates.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:29 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
How does the Tuning Adapter know that the recording is a suggestion?

Why would a Suggestion fail to record any more than any other SDV channel recording?
IIRC, it not that Suggestions fail to record. The problem is, for some reason, the Suggestions list fails to build. No Suggestions in the list, no Suggestions get recorded.
Removing power to the tuning adapter, for some reason, allows the Suggestions list to build up. Once there are Suggestions in the list, they will get recorded.

Hence the suggestion to put the TA on a lamp timer, where you can shut it down for 4 to 6 hours overnight, or during any time you know you will not have any scheduled recordings.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
IIRC, it not that Suggestions fail to record. The problem is, for some reason, the Suggestions list fails to build. No Suggestions in the list, no Suggestions get recorded.
Removing power to the tuning adapter, for some reason, allows the Suggestions list to build up. Once there are Suggestions in the list, they will get recorded.

Hence the suggestion to put the TA on a lamp timer, where you can shut it down for 4 to 6 hours overnight, or during any time you know you will not have any scheduled recordings.
This is precisely what I found when researching this in other threads and other (non-TCF) resources. While I have been able to get some limited suggestions using this advice, it isn't nearly what I had before and would like to have back.

But in researching, it was also said that the "standard" for the Tuning Adapter provides that the TiVo will identify any tuning request for a suggestion as a "speculative" request. So it would seem that some cable providers might use that and reject the request. If that were the case, there would (one would think) be some indication in the history. If I had that issue, I'd simply take it up with my new provider, having recently changed. This, I firmly believe, is TiVo's fault since it's been around for several years -- both S3 and Premiere boxes being affected.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:30 PM   #11
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I have charter and the same problem - in the almost two weeks I've had tivo I've had a total of one suggestion record.

Not really understanding the timer solution?
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:30 PM   #12
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You can check to see if you're a victim of the tuning adapter related suggestions failure by simply checking the suggestions page. Using a Premiere's HD menus, you can locate it at:

Tivo Central --> Find TV, etc --> Browse TV --> TV --> Suggestions

If your Tivo has been up for more than a few hours and the suggestions page still says "please wait a few hours then look again" at the bottom, you most likely have the tuning adapter problem.

Those who have this issue can either power down the tuning adapter or simply disconnect the USB cable for a period of several hours. The suggestions page will then begin to populate with shows, which will most likely record once the tuning adapter is plugged back in. As suggestions record, they will slowly work their way down to zero displayed again, and you must repeat the workaround process to populate more suggestions.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Tivo to correct this failure.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:08 AM   #13
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Well I've confirmed tat I do have a list of suggestions generated - they just don't want to record for some reason.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:49 PM   #14
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I'm now ready to bet money this is a tuning adapter issue. I just noticed that I'm missing channels and it has a blinking light - looks like it was never set up correctly.

Technician is coming out to replace it tomorrow, let's see if suggestions start recording after that.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:56 AM   #15
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I'm a new TiVo customer and just recently (early February) purchased two Premiere XL4's with lifetime service - not cheap! That said, my cable provider (Bright House) utilizes an SDV network so tuning adapters are an unfortunate necessity. With this in mind, I was very excited about the TiVo suggestions, however neither of my two Premiere's have ever recorded suggestions from day one. I have been in contact with TiVo several times about this issues and I keep getting different answers ranging from an issue with my cable provider blocking TiVo suggestions to they've never heard of this problem, to they're aware of the issue and working on it. I then contacted my cable provider and had the opportunity to speak with a headend engineer as well as a cablecard/tuning adapter specialist. I asked both gentleman point blank if they were blocking or monitoring any traffic associated with tuning adapters pertaining to TiVo and they unequivocally denied any sort of filtering/blocking without hesitation. This leads me to believe that the problem squarely lies on TiVo and the way their units deal with tuning adapters. Another interesting anomaly is when I go into the cablecard diagnostics and try the "Test Channels" option with the tuning adapter attached and running - I receive a message that no channels are available. Yet, if I power down the tuning adapter while in the diagnostics, I can tune all channels (minus SDV of course). This happens on both units, yet I can freely tune all SDV channels under normal operation. I thought this was a bit strange - again TiVo couldn't explain this behavior...
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by skruggie View Post
I'm now ready to bet money this is a tuning adapter issue. I just noticed that I'm missing channels and it has a blinking light - looks like it was never set up correctly.

Technician is coming out to replace it tomorrow, let's see if suggestions start recording after that.

Before you have him come out and replace the TA, mine was doing the same thing and all they had to do was send out some sort of a sync command and it immediately fixed it. I don't remember the technical description of what he did and why it went of out sync...
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ahwman View Post
I'm a new TiVo customer and just recently (early February) purchased two Premiere XL4's with lifetime service - not cheap! That said, my cable provider (Bright House) utilizes an SDV network so tuning adapters are an unfortunate necessity. With this in mind, I was very excited about the TiVo suggestions, however neither of my two Premiere's have ever recorded suggestions from day one. I have been in contact with TiVo several times about this issues and I keep getting different answers ranging from an issue with my cable provider blocking TiVo suggestions to they've never heard of this problem, to they're aware of the issue and working on it. I then contacted my cable provider and had the opportunity to speak with a headend engineer as well as a cablecard/tuning adapter specialist. I asked both gentleman point blank if they were blocking or monitoring any traffic associated with tuning adapters pertaining to TiVo and they unequivocally denied any sort of filtering/blocking without hesitation. This leads me to believe that the problem squarely lies on TiVo and the way their units deal with tuning adapters. Another interesting anomaly is when I go into the cablecard diagnostics and try the "Test Channels" option with the tuning adapter attached and running - I receive a message that no channels are available. Yet, if I power down the tuning adapter while in the diagnostics, I can tune all channels (minus SDV of course). This happens on both units, yet I can freely tune all SDV channels under normal operation. I thought this was a bit strange - again TiVo couldn't explain this behavior...
Your experience with TiVo's CSRs not knowing what's up sounds like what lots of others have said during my time here at TCF on various issues they've had that resulted in a call. Not encouraging, is it?

Many of us have apparently come to the same conclusions on the issue of not getting suggestions. We seem to be able to get our list of suggestions to populate a bit by disconnecting the TA (drop the power power or disconnect from USB) for a few hours or overnight, after which it seems that it'll record suggestions for a while until the process has to be repeated.

It strikes me as clear evidence of TiVo being at fault when the very presence of the TA causes a failure to populate the suggestions list. I don't know the inner workings of the software, but shouldn't this just entail examining data that's in the in the guide? And the guide data is present whether or not there's a TA.

If my cable provider were refusing tuning requests for suggestions, I might have grounds to complain to them that they're treating me unfairly because I don't use their equipment. The suggestions feature is one of my favorite parts of my TiVo experience and they'd be denying it to me. But the issue that I and others are finding appears just like yours, that the box is simply not gathering potential suggestions to record when there's a TA in the mix. And it looks very much like they aren't taking the issue seriously, since it's not new.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:16 PM   #18
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Before you have him come out and replace the TA, mine was doing the same thing and all they had to do was send out some sort of a sync command and it immediately fixed it. I don't remember the technical description of what he did and why it went of out sync...

It didn't require a new tuning adapter but it did require a technician. It was never set up propery from the original installation. It's working now, I'm getting all mt channels and suggestions are finally recording.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:50 PM   #19
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It didn't require a new tuning adapter but it did require a technician. It was never set up propery from the original installation. It's working now, I'm getting all mt channels and suggestions are finally recording.
Since your suggestions list was already populating without the power-down workaround, you weren't experiencing the same failure as the rest of us. Glad it's working for you!
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #20
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I also have Brighthouse SDV with a Cisco tuning adapter and the Tivo Suggestions are not recording. TIVO support indicates there IS a problem with the Tivo box with a tuning adapter which disables Tivo Suggestions. Below is the TIVO Support response:

"That is something we are still actively investigating and hopefully with have some sort of TiVo box update available in order to get that working. Some customers have reported that replacing the tuning adapter has helped, but I would be skeptical that can resolve this type of issue. However, definitely check back with us in the future if the TiVo box still can not record TiVo Suggestions with that tuning adapter attached. "
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:21 AM   #21
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I also have Brighthouse SDV with a Cisco tuning adapter and the Tivo Suggestions are not recording. TIVO support indicates there IS a problem with the Tivo box with a tuning adapter which disables Tivo Suggestions. Below is the TIVO Support response:

"That is something we are still actively investigating and hopefully with have some sort of TiVo box update available in order to get that working. Some customers have reported that replacing the tuning adapter has helped, but I would be skeptical that can resolve this type of issue. However, definitely check back with us in the future if the TiVo box still can not record TiVo Suggestions with that tuning adapter attached. "
Assuming they're actually referring to the box's failure to populate suggestions that can ultimately get recorded, this is excellent news indeed. OTOH, if they think that the box "can't" record suggestions, they they still don't get the problem many of us are experiencing. Let's hope.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:29 AM   #22
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I have a XL and a TA on timewarner cable, and I have no suggestions being listed either.

I hate SDV and the TA. has Tivo acknowledged this problem and are they going to fix it?
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:47 AM   #23
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Does the TA affect anything else adversely? I'm considering picking one up, because I believe I'll have more channels that I miss without it. I'm not doing MultiRoom viewing now, so I CAN have it. What other things (besides MRV and Suggestions) does the TA screw up?
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:38 PM   #24
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Does the TA affect anything else adversely? I'm considering picking one up, because I believe I'll have more channels that I miss without it. I'm not doing MultiRoom viewing now, so I CAN have it. What other things (besides MRV and Suggestions) does the TA screw up?
Yes, at least some TiVos with Tuning Adapters fail to accomplish the periodic software function called "garbage collection." (GC) If this goes on for a week, you start getting a nag message that program guide data will run out a week hence and you should "connect to the TiVo service" (which does no good). If you don't get a GC before that time, you can't schedule recordings. You may also see TiVo searches failing.

You can see the date of last successful GC in the "System Info" screens. The fix for this is the same as for the "suggestions problem", i.e., power down the TA (or just disconnect the USB cable between TA and TiVo) for a few hours. What is really infuriating is that Tivo has known about this for years and does not even acknowledge it as a problem or tell people about the workaround. Some have speculated the problem only occurs if you have upgraded your internal hard drive, so TiVo feels no obligation to be concerned with it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:08 PM   #25
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Yes, at least some TiVos with Tuning Adapters fail to accomplish the periodic software function called "garbage collection." (GC) If this goes on for a week, you start getting a nag message that program guide data will run out a week hence and you should "connect to the TiVo service" (which does no good). If you don't get a GC before that time, you can't schedule recordings. You may also see TiVo searches failing.

You can see the date of last successful GC in the "System Info" screens. The fix for this is the same as for the "suggestions problem", i.e., power down the TA (or just disconnect the USB cable between TA and TiVo) for a few hours. What is really infuriating is that Tivo has known about this for years and does not even acknowledge it as a problem or tell people about the workaround. Some have speculated the problem only occurs if you have upgraded your internal hard drive, so TiVo feels no obligation to be concerned with it.
I haven't experienced the GC issue, and I've noted that my older TiVo HD on the wife's TV still gets suggestions (it stopped for a time) while the main one (our newer Premiere XL) is now on a timer to get suggestions. But so far I've seen no serious indication from TiVo over on their forums that they take this seriously.
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Old 05-04-2013, 12:35 PM   #26
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Zeroing in on Exact Issue

Reports of issues with suggestions or tuning adapters vary. Many (probably most) customers on the TiVo forums and here have simply had tuning adapter issues. If a tuning adapter is blinking it has lost its connection the headend. Some users report it is working on one Series 4 but not another -- these units would be running identical software. "Speculative Tuning" can be denied at a cable providers discretion. We cannot rush to file a bug with such wildly conflicting information/symptoms.

There does, however, seem to be at least one common symptom/concern. When the tuning adapter is connected to a Series 4 the list of suggestions does not populate. To be clear, the list of suggestions we are referring to is TiVo Central > Manage recordings & downloads > Browse TV & Movies > TV > TiVo Suggestions in the HD menus, or TiVo Central > Find Programs > TiVo Suggestions in SD menus. Removing the tuning adapter allows the TiVo to build a list of suggestions. If you are having this exact issue, please private message me your TiVo service number as well as a description of the exact steps you take to produce the issue, and if removing power resolves the issue (at least temporarily). Here is a template that will help expedite data collection.

TSN:
Manufacturer of tuning Adapter: (Motorola or Cisco)
Cable Provider:
Is the tuning adapter blinking? (Y/N)
Have you replaced the tuning adapter? (Y/N)
Is the tuning adapter currently connected? (Y/N)
Do you currently have a list of TiVo suggestions (we are referring to TiVo Suggestions/Thumb Ratings under Browse TV & Movies or Find Programs not the To Do List or My Shows list)? (Y/N)
Does unplugging power to the tuning adapter allow list of suggestions to build (you may need to force connections to the TiVo service)? (Y/N)
Do you have any legacy units using a tuning adapter (TiVo HD, or TiVo Series3)? (Y/N)
If the answer to the question above is Yes, are these units experiencing the same issue? (Y/N)
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #27
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There does, however, seem to be at least one common symptom/concern. When the tuning adapter is connected to a Series 4 the list of suggestions does not populate. To be clear, the list of suggestions we are referring to is TiVo Central > Manage recordings & downloads > Browse TV & Movies > TV > TiVo Suggestions in the HD menus, or TiVo Central > Find Programs > TiVo Suggestions in SD menus. Removing the tuning adapter allows the TiVo to build a list of suggestions. If you are having this exact issue, please private message me your TiVo service number as well as a description of the exact steps you take to produce the issue, and if removing power resolves the issue (at least temporarily). Here is a template that will help expedite data collection.
You have described my problem exactly, so I'm contacting you here in hopes that you might help. For years we had a Series 3 Tivo that was recording Suggestions just fine, but now that we "upgraded" to a Premiere, the suggestions list isn't populating. I've tried turning off suggestions & rebooting, followed by turning on suggestions & rebooting. I've also tried unpairing & re-pairing our cable card. No dice.

Manufacturer of tuning Adapter: Cisco
Cable Provider: Cox Cable (Northern Virginia)
Is the tuning adapter blinking? No.
Have you replaced the tuning adapter? No.
Is the tuning adapter currently connected? Yes.
Do you currently have a list of TiVo suggestions? Yes, I've got thumbs ratings.
Does unplugging power to the tuning adapter allow list of suggestions to build? I'll try this tonight...
Do you have any legacy units using a tuning adapter (TiVo HD, or TiVo Series3)? No... but as I mentioned, we used to and that unit was NOT experiencing the same issue.

Could you please tell me how I can get directly in touch with you for some troubleshooting on this? I really would love to record suggestions.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:14 PM   #28
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You have described my problem exactly, so I'm contacting you here in hopes that you might help. For years we had a Series 3 Tivo that was recording Suggestions just fine, but now that we "upgraded" to a Premiere, the suggestions list isn't populating. I've tried turning off suggestions & rebooting, followed by turning on suggestions & rebooting. I've also tried unpairing & re-pairing our cable card. No dice.

Manufacturer of tuning Adapter: Cisco
Cable Provider: Cox Cable (Northern Virginia)
Is the tuning adapter blinking? No.
Have you replaced the tuning adapter? No.
Is the tuning adapter currently connected? Yes.
Do you currently have a list of TiVo suggestions? Yes, I've got thumbs ratings.
Does unplugging power to the tuning adapter allow list of suggestions to build? I'll try this tonight...
Do you have any legacy units using a tuning adapter (TiVo HD, or TiVo Series3)? No... but as I mentioned, we used to and that unit was NOT experiencing the same issue.

Could you please tell me how I can get directly in touch with you for some troubleshooting on this? I really would love to record suggestions.
I hope you are more successful than I, as I'm having the exact same issue and have PM'd my info over a month ago and have yet to hear back. I'm starting to question if TiVo is making any progress on this issue since it was not a part of the last update and this has been going on for many months... I guess time will tell. For now your only option is to put the TA on a timer if you want suggestions...
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:10 AM   #29
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An Update?

Just called TiVo... they are putting me on a "priority list" for a TiVo update, which will apparently download to my box sometime within the next 3 days. I'm cautiously optimistic (okay, maybe not optimistic, but hopeful) that this might work; the technician said this update was helping about 50% of customers with certain problems -- not specifically the TA issue, but many issues. In other words, the update isn't tailored to help the TA issue.

She also mentioned that TiVo isn't aware that any particular TA or TA brand is at fault... though TiVo has pretty much figured out which cable cards function best with TiVo, they don't have the same sense with the TA box. Has anybody tried switching out the TA and had that work? I'm willing to drive to my cable company and deal with them if I can just get Suggestions to work!
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #30
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Did they elaborate on the fixes in this update? I'm assuming this is not related to the 20.3.1 update? I'm tempted to call TiVo myself to see if this helps my situation as I have two Premiere XL4's connected to TA's - neither of which record suggestions...
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