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Old 02-01-2013, 10:55 AM   #241
sldavis1952
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PM'd the tivosupport guys about the issue and asked for an update. I last heard from tivosupport_jessica in November 2012.
Here is what she said at the time, "We currently suspect that some combination of the video stream data and the CableCARD
type and software may be involved."
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:00 AM   #242
tomhorsley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sldavis1952 View Post
PM'd the tivosupport guys about the issue and asked for an update. I last heard from tivosupport_jessica in November 2012.
Here is what she said at the time, "We currently suspect that some combination of the video stream data and the CableCARD
type and software may be involved."
Or in other words, "We currently suspect that something between the cable company and your TV screen may be involved" :-).
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #243
sldavis1952
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Called Tivo and talked to Tavish and asked for a status update since I hadn't heard from tivosupport
since November 2012. He couldn't give me an update other than that the case was still open. After
asking to speak to his supervisor he came back and said the issue was that they were waiting to hear
from me on the my cablecard information to forward to engineering. I told him I had pm'd that
information to tivosupport_jessica on 10-24-2012 and had received a reply from her on 10-27-2012
thanking me for the cablecard information I had sent and she was passing it on to engineering. It
appears the ball was dropped somewhere on Tivo's side. Tavish said I should get an update in 4
business days. I will call next Thursday if I don't hear from Tivo.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:11 PM   #244
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sldavis1952, do you know if there is an open issue with which all of our open complaints can be aggregated?

I also have a support ticket open, but it seems silly for Tivo to attempt addressing each complaint as an isolated issue when there is clearly an endemic problem with the entire platform.

What purpose does it serve to require each end user to jump through the same troubleshooting hoops? "Power-cycle your tivo." "Reseat the cablecard." "Can you try a different cablecard." All these tactics seem like time-wasting diversions for the end users.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 02-01-2013 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Typo!
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #245
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Good idea, but...
It took me(and other people) a year Oct. 2011 to Oct. 2012 to get Tivo to acknowledge there was an issue for Tivo engineering to look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
sldavis1952, do you know if there is an open issue with which all of our open complaints can be aggregated?

I also have a support ticket open, but it seems silly for Tivo to attempt addressing each complaint as an isolated issue when there is clearly an endemic problem with the entire platform.

What purpose does it serve to require each end user to jump through the same troubleshooting hoops? "Power-cycle your tivo." "Reseat the cablecard." "Can you try a different cablecard." All these tactics seem like time-wasting diversions for the end users.

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:41 PM   #246
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A TWC field supervisor called me earlier this week after Tech #4 left without resolving the issue. There is a system-wide alert in TWC's database (I believe entered Jan 9 of this year) that says something along the lines of there being problems with the latest TiVo build causing intermittent tuning loss. Said the solution was to call TiVo and ask for the old version to be pushed to my TiVo.

Called TiVo last night. They have no idea what that guy was talking about. Told me to change the CableCard. I told him I changed it 3 days ago. He told me to change it again. Kinda like my call last week. TiVo told me I had a bad tuning adapter. I told him I just replaced it. He said the new one was defective as well. Anyone see a pattern here?

They don't acknowledge any widespread tuning issues on the 4-tuner boxes. I've actually talked to 2 or 3 TiVo support people recently; none admit to there being tuning issues. Maybe there is; maybe there isn't.

Called TWC CC Hotline after getting off the phone with TiVo last night. He said my signal levels were out-of-spec (FDC at a +15). Asked him about the TWC tech supervisor suggestion about the Jan 9 system flag. Said he's known about that issue since last August and that the latest released TiVo build (I assume the late Oct/early Nov build) fixed it. Said my issue was definitely not that. He scheduled another TWC truck roll. TWC supervisor called me back this morning and said he would send the tech to adjust the signal levels, but that he guaranteed it was not the issue because "they are within spec".

No one knows what the problem is; but everyone is positive it's someone else's fault.

TiVo did offer to exchange my box with a new one.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:50 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
Are your Cable and Internet both FIOS? Can you actually have the Internet go down but your cable stays up?
Yes, TV stays up, as this only affects the XL4, internet can go down without affecting TV service.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #248
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TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. This issue has a severe impact, but appears to impact a select few customers (we only have 2 customers that are actively working with us) and we are unable to reproduce the issue in house. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.

If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.

Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.

• tivosupport_jessica
• tivosupport_kaitlyn
Please let them know your…

• TSN or TiVo Serial Number
• How often the issue occurs
• Which channels drop
• CableCARD Manufacturer, Hardware Version, Firmware Version
• Any other details you wish to share

Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account.

Thank you.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:19 PM   #249
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Thank you for the acknowledgment that Tivo is aware of the issue and is investigating the solution.

PM sent.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:36 PM   #250
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I have sent this info to tivo support several times over the last year with no response. I will send it yet again.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:14 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivosupport_kaitlyn View Post
If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.
It actually happens more on my 2 Tuner Premiere than on my Elite/XL4.

However my Elite does have a lot of noise related tuning issues where there is a brief moment of some macroblocking, where my 2 Tuner does not display the same issues, and did not when it was in the same location as the Elite.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:35 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivosupport_kaitlyn View Post
TiVo Support is aware that some users are having an issue where channels appear to stop tuning properly at random and where video is restored via a reboot or reseating of the CableCARD. This issue has a severe impact, but appears to impact a select few customers (we only have 2 customers that are actively working with us) and we are unable to reproduce the issue in house. TiVo would like to resolve this issue for our customers and, if you are experiencing this problem, we could use your help.

If you are experiencing issues related to tuning on your Premiere 4 or XL4 that is temporarily resolved after a reboot, we would like your help in capturing some information and diagnostic logs from your DVR.

Please PRIVATE-MESSAGE one of the following TiVo Support Employees.

• tivosupport_jessica
• tivosupport_kaitlyn
Please let them know your…

• TSN or TiVo Serial Number
• How often the issue occurs
• Which channels drop
• CableCARD Manufacturer, Hardware Version, Firmware Version
• Any other details you wish to share

Please do not publicly post your account information. We would like to protect the privacy of your account.

Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shamilian
Quote:
Originally Posted by tivosupport_taylor
Have you tried replacing the cableCARD at all? It sounds like the issue is resolved if you pull the cableCARD and reinsert it, correct? Another customer mentioned that transitioning from the Netflix application to Live TV causes this behavior. Have you noticed that this issue correlates with switching between the Netflix application and live TV? I saw that you were well aware of RS errors in a post you made to another customer -- do all of your signal "health" values look decent on all your channels? Do you mind giving me a brief run down of the SNR, strength, and RS errors from DVR diagnostics? Additionally do you notice this occurring on some channels more than others?
I have not returned the cablecard to FIOS for another one... It has worked for years this behavior has been intermittent for the past 6 months ( since Tivo OS ver 20.0 ).

It seems to have nothing to do with Netflix

The DVR diag screen shows SNR of 35db and signal level 75% - 90% for all channels. RS corrected/uncorrected = 0.

When it occurs it occurs on all channels.

When the problem starts it looks like extreme Macro-blocking ( like someone is playing Tetris on the screen )
It then goes to all black and may report no signal on the live TV screen.
The DVR diag screen thinks everything is fine.

removing and reinserting cablecard or rebooting fixes the problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86496696@N07/
How about the RS corrected and uncorrected errors? I understand you do not believe it is the CableCARD, but CableCARDs go bad frequently and it is worth replacing to troubeshoot the root cause of this issue.

Thanks,

Taylor


I have reported this problem since last September on 2 premieres (2 tuner). I assumed after multiple PMs that Tivo would be following up on the problem since it was never resolved.

I have since upgraded and added 3 premiere 4s, It occurs on All of my premieres 2 or 4 tuners. The problem never occurs on TivoHDs.
(that means it occurs on 5 different Tivos OS20 about once a month and has never occurred on 4 different Tivos OS11, 3 of which have the same cablecards)

This seems a software issue.

I am on FIOS with Motorola Cablecards and no tuning adapter.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #253
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I sent a pm of the requested information. Btw I had sent a pm of the same information to tivosupport on 10-25-2012, but didn't get a response. Make sure you get a response, otherwise tivosupport just keeps the status of the issue as waiting on response from customer.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:19 PM   #254
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Lost all channels at 12:05 PM CST. Followed following procedure at 12:06 PM
(a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(b) Remove the CableCARD
(c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(d) Reinsert the CableCARD
(e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(f) Send the date/time info to TiVo

After reseating the cablecard the following happened a few minutes later. Channels started
pixelating real bad and audio cutting in and out on all channels at 12:16 PM.
Restarted Tivo. Waiting for the restart now.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:47 AM   #255
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Came home yesterday an hour after the SuperBowl started expecting to find a game that was being recorded by my Premiere XL, instead found nothing but black screens on all tuners and recording of nothing.

Not the first time I've come home or awoken to dead channels, but it's been a while. Very frustrating.

Thanks TiVo.

Premiere XL on Verizon FIOS, no recent channel lineup changes that I'm aware of or were reported in the settings/messages menu.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:02 AM   #256
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I now preemptively check my four-tuner Tivo every morning. What a wonderful surprise--all four tuners on my XL4 were black today. My two-tuner premier was still happily chugging along with no issues.

My separate Tivo support ticket asked for the signal levels from each tuner, so I'm also adding them here just for documentation purposes.

Modulation: qam256
Signal Strength: 91
SNR: 36
RS Corrected: 0
RS Uncorrected: 0

Modulation: -
Signal Strength: -
SNR: -
RS Corrected: -
RS Uncorrected: -

Modulation: -
Signal Strength: -
SNR: -
RS Corrected: -
RS Uncorrected: -

Modulation: qam256
Signal Strength: 88
SNR: 35
RS Corrected: 0
RS Uncorrected: 0

The first time I checked diagnostics, all four tuners showed signal and SNR, the second time I checked two had turned blank. Could it be that all tuners were still receiving a signal, but something else was wrong, like the mpeg decoder subsystem had crashed?

The only problem with this hypothesis is that I could still watch recorded programming. If the mpeg decoder had failed, surely I would be unable to view anything.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:33 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
I now preemptively check my four-tuner Tivo every morning. What a wonderful surprise--all four tuners on my XL4 were black today. My two-tuner premier was still happily chugging along with no issues.


The first time I checked diagnostics, all four tuners showed signal and SNR, the second time I checked two had turned blank. Could it be that all tuners were still receiving a signal, but something else was wrong, like the mpeg decoder subsystem had crashed?

The only problem with this hypothesis is that I could still watch recorded programming. If the mpeg decoder had failed, surely I would be unable to view anything.

I have had multiple occurrences of of this symptom.

Two of the times it occurred I could not play recorded videos and the SD menu backgrounds were also black. Indicating to me that this time the mpeg decoder or disk playback system had crashed.

Another time I noticed that the cablecard no longer had a channel map.

Another time I noticed that the cablecard no longer had an OOB signal lock.

The other 10-12 times there was nothing out of normal with any of the numbers.

The signal was always strong and the RS numbers were always 0.

This never occurred to a TivoHD and only occurred in later versions of the Tivo OS on both 2 tuner and 4 tuner premieres, but only at random not to multiple Tivos at once.

Last edited by shamilian : 02-04-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:16 AM   #258
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After restarting everything was okay with the Premiere. I haven't got a response from Tivo support that they got the information I sent. I asked them to send a response this morning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sldavis1952 View Post
Lost all channels at 12:05 PM CST. Followed following procedure at 12:06 PM
(a) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(b) Remove the CableCARD
(c) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(d) Reinsert the CableCARD
(e) 7-7-7-CLEAR to mark the logs
(f) Send the date/time info to TiVo

After reseating the cablecard the following happened a few minutes later. Channels started
pixelating real bad and audio cutting in and out on all channels at 12:16 PM.
Restarted Tivo. Waiting for the restart now.

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Old 02-04-2013, 12:36 PM   #259
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Okay, Tivo support is officially useless. They just told me via support.tivo.com to replace my cablecard. First of all, that is an enormous hassle for me. Second, it is not the problem.

I'm also told that if the cablecard replacement doesn't cure the tuner malfunctions, we can discuss Tivo exchange procedures. So they're willing to exchange my XL4 for another with the same endemic problem? No thanks.

What idiotic suggestions. This is obviously not solely a cablecard issue, unless every person who owns a four-tuner Tivo and is experiencing tuner failure has a faulty cablecard. It is also not a problem specific to my particular XL4--it is affecting great numbers of XL4s.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #260
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I keep waiting for someone to come in and post:

"Well I took the cable off the side of the house like they told me, fished it thru the open window, connected it directly to the back of the Tivo just like they said, and still nothing. I'm still losing all my channels."

I remember when I was asked to do that.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
Okay, Tivo support is officially useless. They just told me via support.tivo.com to replace my cablecard. First of all, that is an enormous hassle for me. Second, it is not the problem.
And for me the cablecards worked perfectly for years in a TivoHD and as soon as they went into an premiere then I guess they developed the problem of causing the tuners to fail randomly.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:20 PM   #262
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I keep waiting for someone to come in and post:

"Well I took the cable off the side of the house like they told me, fished it thru the open window, connected it directly to the back of the Tivo just like they said, and still nothing. I'm still losing all my channels."

I remember when I was asked to do that.
What about the cable drop from the utility pole or vault?
That's where they found the problem with my service.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #263
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What about the cable drop from the utility pole or vault?
That's where they found the problem with my service.
The cable company has been out numerous times. I have new cables from the pole to my house, all new wires inside the house, a new splitter, new jacks on the walls, the whole 9 yards. I've been thru 4 cable cards, 4 tuning adapters. The last time they were out I got charged for the call because they cant find anything wrong with the cable. Their DVR's work fine, as well as the Ceton card in the HTPC I have. So I guess that leaves the issue with the Tivo's. They are the only things that wont work right.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #264
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This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=481894

Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 02-04-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:27 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=481894

Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.
Here is one from Dec 2011 version 14.9.2.2

14.9.2.2 Software - Problem with the signal on this cable channel. Trying again

It turns out that I posted to this thread too.

And this one a month later... with version 20 software

Black Screen in Recordings and Live TV

that is how long I have been having this issue....
since we don't know what causes the problem and it seems to be random I doubt Tivo is doing anything but blaming the cable provider or the cablecards. But since the same provider and the same cablecards work fine on my TivoHDs, it is a Tivo Premiere OS problem.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:45 PM   #266
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TWC Tech #5 re-ran the outlet line from the basement to the TiVo and replaced the tuning adapter (again). Signal levels were tweaked as well to rule that out as a potential cause.

Tuning issues are back ~48 hours later. Black screen on random channels. No error messages.

Reboots generally don't fix things. Calls to the TWC CableCard hotline to have them send hits to the card always seem to fix things instantly.

Maybe I'll redo Guided Setup.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:53 PM   #267
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It sounds like your issue of black screens on random channels which isn't corrected by a reboot is a different issue. Guided setup shouldn't make a difference either--its only purpose is to align your channel lineup with Tivo's guide.

The issue discussed in this thread concerns all tuners failing and subsequent attempts to tune any any other channel also resulting in failure until either a reboot or cablecard reinsertion. These two actions will reliably (but temporarily) correct this particular tuning failure issue.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:01 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
This is another long-standing issue. Below is one user's experience with total tuner failure beginning in January 2012.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=481894

Is Tivo truly working on this issue? I am concerned it appears that one year of research hasn't been sufficient to identify a solution.
I posted a lot in that thread as well. My problems go back to January 2012 when I got my first Elite.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:28 PM   #269
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You can add a new user to the problem with a new XL 4 delivered in Jan. A tuner seems to loose contact with the cable card and goes blank "the channel is experiencing network difficulties" and that tuner post no signal level or snr. Every tuner channel change after that gets a blank screen so as channels are changed the other tuners go blank. Replug CC or soft or hard Tivo reboot and alll is well for a while. Tivo says change the cable card. I spent 35 years with IBM and do not understand why a software reboot of the TIVO without any change to the cable card or cable card programming causes the defective cable card to suddenly start working for a while. IMO it has to be programming on the TIVO side. I have a Charter Cable DVR sitting next to the TIVO that always bring in the channels. Have not used netflicks or other online stuff yet. When posting my signal is 82-90 and snr is 33-36. Right now one of my tuners has gone blank but three have live tv but on the cable card menu under paring it says "in order to start cable service for this device, please contact your cable provider" so the next tuner that changes channels will not get authorized -- It is much easier to reboot but it is a short time fix. This seems to be getting more frequent lately maybe as I have more season passes set up over time...
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:39 PM   #270
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It's ridiculous that TiVo even suggests the problem is cablecard related for these issues. If the problem was the cablecard then why does a reboot of the TiVo fix the problem for a while? Not to mention if you use the same cablecard in a series 3 unit there are no such issues. I think tuning problems with Premieres in general, but particularly 4 tuner units are widespread enough there should be support contacts available beyond the usual front line CSRs.

I occasionally get "V301" errors trying to start Netflix now and guess what, the only fix once that happens is to reboot the Premiere.

So it's like the old Windows 95 days where only reliable way to deal with these issues is to put the TiVo on a power timer to have it reboot automatically on a regular basis (like once a day) assuming you don't have USB-attached devices which may screw up the reboot from power down.
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