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Old 01-24-2013, 10:42 PM   #2011
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Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Sorry, maybe it's only the "dual dock" ones. Do you have one of those?
Yes it is dual dock. I actually have two. One eSata / USB and the other is the USB 3.0 version. Neither work off my USB 3.0 port when JMFS is loaded but works when connected to the USB 2.0 ports on the same computer. BIOS sees them and can boot off of drives connected to them if the OS on the drive supports USB 3.0. JMFS disk just does not have the drivers for my USB 3.0 ports.

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Old 01-24-2013, 10:46 PM   #2012
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Do you mean that it works *IN JMFS* when connected to USB 2.0? Heck, I've use it on a Mac, and I honestly don't know if the ports were USB 2.0 or 3.0.. I think 2.0, since this was a while ago. I finally just took the drives into work and plugged them directly into SATA ports internally.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:00 PM   #2013
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Do you mean that it works *IN JMFS* when connected to USB 2.0? Heck, I've use it on a Mac, and I honestly don't know if the ports were USB 2.0 or 3.0.. I think 2.0, since this was a while ago. I finally just took the drives into work and plugged them directly into SATA ports internally.
Yes. It all depends on if the Linux kernel on the JMFS disk has the drivers for the ports on the computer you are working on. The computer I was using was a newer Lenovo notebook. Consequently, the drivers for the chipset for the USB 3.0 ports were not on the disk. Fortunately the drivers that are on the disk covers most computers. I was able to use JMFS disk on the Macbook I have at home. It is I believe a 2009/2010 model with an Intel C2D. I cannot remember the exact specs.

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Old 01-24-2013, 11:07 PM   #2014
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I just brought a WD20EURS in off of the porch, waiting for it to reach room temp before continuing, will see if it needs wdidle3 or not, but it's available on the hard drives-device info and management menu of the Ultimate Boot CD, a copy of which is a good thing to keep handy, so you could try it and if it doesn't need it, no harm done.
Where can I find the "Ultimate Boot CD"?
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #2015
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Where can I find the "Ultimate Boot CD"?
Google is your friend.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:48 AM   #2016
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Boot that GB mobo with the jmfs cd without the TiVo drive or the TiVo drive to be hooked up.

X

to exit to the command line, then


hdparm -i /dev/sda

to make sure the SSD is hooked where you think it is

then use the up arrow to bring back the command and use the backspace key to change it to

hdparm -i /dev/sdb

and make sure thats the EARS.


Then if everything is where it's supposed to be,

hdparm -N /dev/sda

should tell you if there's an HPA on the SSD or not.

Then

hdparm -N /dev/sdb

should show that there's not one on the EARS.

If that's the case, you should be good to go.

Unitron,

I tried the steps above, and the "hdparm -i" commands verified that my SSD is on sda and my WD20EARS is on sdb. When I then ran "hdparm -N /dev/sda", it reported that HPA is disabled. And when I ran "hdparm -N /dev/sdb", it reported that the HPA setting seems invalid. Are these expected? Is there any danger that an HPA will get slapped onto my TP4 drive when I connect it (and the target WD20EURS) to the system?

The one other thing I should mention is that I verified that the BIOS has an option to save the BIOS image to disk, but the option was already disabled, so I didn't play with it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:33 AM   #2017
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Unitron,

I tried the steps above, and the "hdparm -i" commands verified that my SSD is on sda and my WD20EARS is on sdb. When I then ran "hdparm -N /dev/sda", it reported that HPA is disabled. And when I ran "hdparm -N /dev/sdb", it reported that the HPA setting seems invalid. Are these expected? Is there any danger that an HPA will get slapped onto my TP4 drive when I connect it (and the target WD20EURS) to the system?

The one other thing I should mention is that I verified that the BIOS has an option to save the BIOS image to disk, but the option was already disabled, so I didn't play with it.
Maybe they finally came to their senses and made the HPA thing optional and switch-off-able, and your board is new enough to have that.

hdparm -N

should report

number/number

and both numbers should be identical if there's no HPA. Did /dev/sdb report any numbers in that x/x format?

I don't know any reason an SSD drive couldn't have an HPA put on it, but like most things while they're still expensive, I know very little about them.

Also, I was never able to decipher GigaByte's slogans and buzz words enough to tell if the HPA was for BIOS backup or bare bones OS boot-necessary stuff for some sort of corrupted MBR recovery, so I don't know for sure that we can trust what it says about being disabled.

So I guess it's not impossible that an HPA aimed at /dev/sda would get deflected to /dev/sdb.

Can you do it again and write down exactly what it said the /dev/sdb setting seeming invalid, including any numbers involved.

I think I've seen that answer before, I'm just trying to remember the circumstances.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:38 AM   #2018
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Where can I find the "Ultimate Boot CD"?
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Go to the bottom of the page where it says mirror sites and choose one geographically close to you.

There's a rather small and unobstrusive donate button near the top of the page as well, if your budget has recovered from the holidays.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:59 AM   #2019
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That's right, you're wrong.
All recording continues.
So that means that since HD's don't like being interrupted, we should only voluntarily pull the plug on a Tivo unit during a warm boot.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #2020
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Will this work with the Tivo premiere elite drives as well?
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:37 AM   #2021
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So that means that since HD's don't like being interrupted, we should only voluntarily pull the plug on a Tivo unit during a warm boot.
If it's not frozen up, I always only pull the plug after going into the menu and selecting restart the TiVo.

After hitting thumbs down 3 times I pull the plug right after hitting enter, before the welcome screen pops back up.

Some people put it in stand by, but this, as I recall, causes it to go back into standby after re-booting, and if you forgot, or did it to make a backup and forgot, then you wind up thinking the TiVo's broken.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:00 AM   #2022
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So that means that since HD's don't like being interrupted, we should only voluntarily pull the plug on a Tivo unit during a warm boot.
It's not that HD's don't like being interrupted. They don't like being jerked around, i.e. power "bounces". So when you do unplug it, don't immediately reapply power. Give it a chance to spin down.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:10 PM   #2023
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I'm going to be attempting another upgrade to a 2TB using a WD20EARX. The last one I did was with the AV-GP EURS and it went flawlessly. I would have used another EURS, but I snagged this EARX for only $60 (Best Buy's $50 off $100 coupon last Monday), so for $40 less, I'll give it a try.

Anyone have an recent experience with the EARX? I plan to run WDIDLE on it. Do you suggest disabling it completely or just setting it to something like 300?

Does anyone mess with the jumper settings? This particular one is a SATA III 6.0Gbps drive, with AF. I see there are settings to alter the AF and also to limit to 3.0Gbps. Leave them alone or tweak?
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:56 AM   #2024
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GGSieke - I cant PM you yet due to not enough posts

but can you email me a link to the VHD - gravlindon @ gmail
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #2025
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but can you email me a link to the VHD - gravlindon @ gmail
Email sent.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:40 PM   #2026
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Can you do it again and write down exactly what it said the /dev/sdb setting seeming invalid, including any numbers involved.

I think I've seen that answer before, I'm just trying to remember the circumstances.

Unitron,

For the SSD, running "hdparm -N /dev/sda" yields the following:

/dev/sda:
max sectors: 156301488/156301488, HPA is disabled


For the WD20EARS, running "hdparm -N /dev/sdb" yields the following:

/dev/sdb:
max sectors: 18446744073321613488/3907029168(1844674407332161613488?), HPA setting seems invalid


Long string of numbers, but I'm pretty sure I got it right because I just saw in the "Premiere HD upgrade with JMFS failed" thread that Oregonian got the exact same string when he ran it against his drive.

Anyway, just to reiterate, given the results above for the two drives currently hooked up to my system (recall that the SSD is my Windows boot drive hooked up to SATA port 0 and the WD20EARS drive is my Windows data drive hooked up to SATA port 1), I'm wondering what will happen when I hook up a WD20EURS to SATA port 2 (which will be the target drive for my TP4 upgrade) and the original drive from my TP4 to SATA port 3. Specifically, is there any risk that my Gigabyte GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 motherboard is going to end up slapping an HPA onto my TP4 drive and render it useless?

Thanks for your help so far!
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:09 PM   #2027
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ddrescue?

I've booted with the jmfs Live CD and exited out to check things out a bit. There doesn't seem to be a man page for ddrescue. I was curious if ddrescue performs a sector by sector copy from device to device. If so, couldn't we use it to create a clone of a Windows disk? I wouldn't mind having a drive tucked away in case my Windows 7 drive goes south. I've had to restore a Dell computer hard drive before when it went belly up and it was quite a pain.

Last edited by pspens : 01-26-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:18 PM   #2028
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I've booted with the jmfs Live CD and exited out to check things out a bit. There doesn't seem to be a man page for ddrescue. I was curious if ddrescue performs a sector by sector copy from device to device. If so, couldn't we use it to create a clone of a Windows disk? I wouldn't mind having a drive tucked away in case my Windows 7 drive goes south. I've had to restore a Dell computer hard drive before when it went belly up and it was quite a pain.
Yes it is agnostic to the drive it is cloning.

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:48 AM   #2029
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Unitron,

For the SSD, running "hdparm -N /dev/sda" yields the following:

/dev/sda:
max sectors: 156301488/156301488, HPA is disabled


For the WD20EARS, running "hdparm -N /dev/sdb" yields the following:

/dev/sdb:
max sectors: 18446744073321613488/3907029168(1844674407332161613488?), HPA setting seems invalid


Long string of numbers, but I'm pretty sure I got it right because I just saw in the "Premiere HD upgrade with JMFS failed" thread that Oregonian got the exact same string when he ran it against his drive.

Anyway, just to reiterate, given the results above for the two drives currently hooked up to my system (recall that the SSD is my Windows boot drive hooked up to SATA port 0 and the WD20EARS drive is my Windows data drive hooked up to SATA port 1), I'm wondering what will happen when I hook up a WD20EURS to SATA port 2 (which will be the target drive for my TP4 upgrade) and the original drive from my TP4 to SATA port 3. Specifically, is there any risk that my Gigabyte GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 motherboard is going to end up slapping an HPA onto my TP4 drive and render it useless?

Thanks for your help so far!

3907029168 sectors x 512 Bytes per sector is a 2TB drive.

3907029168 is what that EARS should be reporting on both sides of the /

Where that other number came from I have no idea.

The EARS is an "advanced format" 4k per sector drive, but I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.

Do you have that EARS jumpered for 512 compatibility or to step it down from 3Gb/s to 1.5?


Doing a little Googling just now I found out that after GB started putting an option in BIOS to disable Xpress Recovery--the thing that writes an HPA on the first disk at every boot, not only did setting it to "don't do that" not always work, sometimes another bug would cause it to, instead of using about 1.5MB for the HPA, grab an entire TB on a drive larger than 1TB.

Your model doesn't have any PATA/IDE headers/controllers, so if it were going to put an HPA on a drive, it should have put it on that SSD hooked to SATA 0.

Check your BIOS and see if there's a setting that lets you disable Xpress Recovery or Xpress Recovery2 or something similar sounding.

I see I'm starting to repeat myself because I'm advising more than one TCF'er at the same time and losing track of which is which, while simultaneously enjoying something that wants to be the flu when it grows up, so forgive me for coughing all over this post.

What do you have on that EARS?
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:08 AM   #2030
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I see I'm starting to repeat myself because I'm advising more than one TCF'er at the same time and losing track of which is which, while simultaneously enjoying something that wants to be the flu when it grows up, so forgive me for coughing all over this post.

What do you have on that EARS?
So you are becoming buggy as well . If it is the flu better get some debugging done early (like with in the first 2 days where there is some medication that can abort it) otherwise it'll take a long time to debug you.

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Old 01-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #2031
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So you are becoming buggy as well . If it is the flu better get some debugging done early (like with in the first 2 days where there is some medication that can abort it) otherwise it'll take a long time to debug you.

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This is something I've had before several times. It feels like the flu coming on when it first starts but doesn't get nearly as bad and beyond treating the symptoms with decongestant and anti-histamine, and intaking lots of fluids, it's best dealt with by applying the passage of one day every 24 hours.

I was smart enough to get a flu shot last fall.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #2032
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Upgrade complete with WD20EARX successful. Just ran WDIDLE3, set to 300. No jumper adjustments and everything seems to be working fine so far, 318 hrs!
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:55 AM   #2033
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I've booted with the jmfs Live CD and exited out to check things out a bit. There doesn't seem to be a man page for ddrescue. I was curious if ddrescue performs a sector by sector copy from device to device. If so, couldn't we use it to create a clone of a Windows disk? I wouldn't mind having a drive tucked away in case my Windows 7 drive goes south. I've had to restore a Dell computer hard drive before when it went belly up and it was quite a pain.
There's a manual for GNU ddrescue here.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #2034
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There's a manual for GNU ddrescue here.
Thanks. I need to make sure the "in" and "out" are in the correct order!
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:38 PM   #2035
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/dev/sdb:
max sectors: 18446744073321613488/3907029168(1844674407332161613488?), HPA setting seems invalid
Googling this issue (max sectors > native sectors) does not apparently yield a single solution. The interesting thing with Oregonian testing is that when he copied the 2TB drive to his 1.5TB with JMFS he still could not expand the drive. It would have been interesting to see the HPA parametes of the 1.5TB drive. Would assume it had some funky numbers as well. When he used JMFS to copy his good 1TB drive to 1.5TB, he was able to expand it. I am wondering if JMFS is seeing the first 10 numbers (1844674407) which would be close to 1TB (1950866432) and consequently nothing to expand. (the max number of sectors that can be addressed by the TiVo/Apple partition map is 4294967295 (FF FF FF FF in hex)) I do not know enough of HPA and hdparm to know where it gets the max sectors number. Apparently HDAT2 sees things differently because Oregonian states HDAT2 does not report the same information for HPA as hdparm. Perhaps looking at the first few blocks and possibly last few blocks of the drive might yield some information.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:10 PM   #2036
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Googling this issue (max sectors > native sectors) does not apparently yield a single solution. The interesting thing with Oregonian testing is that when he copied the 2TB drive to his 1.5TB with JMFS he still could not expand the drive. It would have been interesting to see the HPA parametes of the 1.5TB drive. Would assume it had some funky numbers as well. When he used JMFS to copy his good 1TB drive to 1.5TB, he was able to expand it. I am wondering if JMFS is seeing the first 10 numbers (1844674407) which would be close to 1TB (1950866432) and consequently nothing to expand. (the max number of sectors that can be addressed by the TiVo/Apple partition map is 4294967295 (FF FF FF FF in hex)) I do not know enough of HPA and hdparm to know where it gets the max sectors number. Apparently HDAT2 sees things differently because Oregonian states HDAT2 does not report the same information for HPA as hdparm. Perhaps looking at the first few blocks and possibly last few blocks of the drive might yield some information.

I fear we are wandering off into "I know just enough to be a danger to myself and others" territory here.

Perhaps HDAT2 can fix it if hdparm can't, but I'd be much more confident trying either on a non-GigaByte brand motherboard.


I'm pretty sure

hdparm -N /dev/drive'x'

is supposed to return

physical sectors/logical sectors

but I can't swear to it.

I don't know how drive makers go about making advanced format drives pretend to be the old-fashioned kind, but I suspect that not only does it vary from brand to brand, but from model to model within a brand, and maybe even from early in production run to late in production run for particular models (if they can produce a WD10EADS that's not AF and then change it to AF later on while not changing the model number they can't really be trusted about anything).

And I don't know if AF is behind those weird numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:37 PM   #2037
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I fear we are wandering off into "I know just enough to be a danger to myself and others" territory here.

Perhaps HDAT2 can fix it if hdparm can't, but I'd be much more confident trying either on a non-GigaByte brand motherboard.


I'm pretty sure

hdparm -N /dev/drive'x'

is supposed to return

physical sectors/logical sectors

but I can't swear to it.

I don't know how drive makers go about making advanced format drives pretend to be the old-fashioned kind, but I suspect that not only does it vary from brand to brand, but from model to model within a brand, and maybe even from early in production run to late in production run for particular models (if they can produce a WD10EADS that's not AF and then change it to AF later on while not changing the model number they can't really be trusted about anything).

And I don't know if AF is behind those weird numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Some drives like the Seagate pipeline do the conversion automatically. I am not sure about WD. I only use EURS which is an advanced format drive I believe. I used both in TiVos and have not had a problem.

I am comfortable reading, modifying, writing HD blocks with the tools I have. Hdparm could be just as dangerous to drives. Just depends on someone's comfort with the tools and what they are willing to risk. Would recommend that people work with copies and not original drives to reduce risk. In any case I agree with you about the potential.

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #2038
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I see I'm starting to repeat myself because I'm advising more than one TCF'er at the same time and losing track of which is which, while simultaneously enjoying something that wants to be the flu when it grows up, so forgive me for coughing all over this post.
Unitron,

Just to make sure we're on the same page and you're not getting different issues mixed up, I'll summarise my situation.

I've currently got a Windows 7 64-bit system with an Intel SSD hooked up to SATA port 0 and hosting the Windows OS as the C: drive. In addition, I've also got a WD20EARS drive hooked up to SATA port 1 and hosting the Windows data drive as the D: drive (basically, it hosts everything that gets written-to frequently such as Windows' \users directory, temp. files, swap file, etc. in order to minimise writes to the SSD drive). The machine has a Gigabyte GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 motherboard. In the motherboard's BIOS settings, the closest setting I could see that might correspond to some sort of express recovery mechanism is a setting called "Backup BIOS Image to HDD". That setting is currently set to "Disabled" (it's always been that way, I never touched it).

I haven't looked at the jumpers on the WD20EARS, but running "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo" from an elevated Windows command prompt tells me that the "Bytes Per Physical Sector" for the WD20EARS is 512.

When I boot using the JMFS CD and run "hdparm -N /dev/sda", it reports the following for the SSD:

/dev/sda:
max sectors: 156301488/156301488, HPA is disabled

When I run "hdparm -N /dev/sdb", it reports the following for the WD20EARS:

/dev/sdb:
max sectors: 18446744073321613488/3907029168(1844674407332161613488?), HPA setting seems invalid


So that's my existing PC system. Now, I've recently picked up a Tivo Premiere 4 as well as a WD20EURS drive. I've already run wdidle3 on the WD20EURS to verify that Intellipark came disabled and I've also successfully run Western Digital's quick and extended diagnostics on it. My intent is to use my existing PC and run JMFS to copy the Premiere 4's hard drive onto the WD20EURS drive and expand it to 2Tb. However, because I have a Gigabyte motherboard, I was worried that it might try to write an HPA onto the TP4 drive and render it useless (at least, for Tivo'ing purposes). I plan to hook up the WD20EURS to SATA port 2 and the original TP4 drive to SATA port 3.

So after hooking up all 4 hard drives, I should have the following:

SATA port 0: SSD (Windows boot drive, which hdparm reports as "HPA is disabled")

SATA port 1: WD20EARS (Windows data drive, which hdparm reports as "HPA setting seems invalid")

SATA port 2: WD20EURS (target drive for TP4 upgrade)

SATA port 3: original TP4 drive

When I hook up my PC in this manner and boot into JMFS, my only concern is whether an HPA is going to get slapped onto my original TP4 drive (and thus render my Tivo unusable). I'm not terribly concerned if it gets slapped onto any of the other drives, because if there's any deleterious effect, it would only affect my Windows installation and I can always restore that (admittedly, it would take a bit of effort, but I think much less than trying to get my Tivo working again if my TP4 drive gets hosed). I was worried that the original TP4 drive might be a potential target for an HPA because, despite the fact that it's on the fourth SATA port, the drive on the first SATA port (the SSD) seems to have the HPA disabled, the drive on the second SATA port (the WD20EARS) seems to have an invalid HPA setting, and the drive that will be on the third SATA port (the WD20EURS) is not currently formatted, so I'm not sure what that means in terms of its HPA status.

So the only question I was hoping that you (or anyone else) could answer for me is, given the setup described above, would there be any risk that an HPA will be slapped onto my original TP4 drive?

Thanks!
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:24 PM   #2039
jmbach
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Hook up your EURS drive first and check it with hdparm. If it checks out okay than I think the best guess is that you will be okay. Personally if the EURS drive checked out ok, I would remove it and place the T4 drive there since the EURS apparently was not touched. Interesting that your Windows drive has the same HPA sector reporting issue that others are having.

GigaByte brand motherboards maybe the sole culprit in the sector issue based on problems people are having on TCF. Some Googling indicates some versions of Lenovo and other brands may also do this as well.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:18 PM   #2040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If it's not frozen up, I always only pull the plug after going into the menu and selecting restart the TiVo.

After hitting thumbs down 3 times I pull the plug right after hitting enter, before the welcome screen pops back up.

Some people put it in stand by, but this, as I recall, causes it to go back into standby after re-booting, and if you forgot, or did it to make a backup and forgot, then you wind up thinking the TiVo's broken.
Congressman...I mean Unitron...Your method is what TIVO told me to do with my THD's as well. They say that the THD is supposed to be OK if you just pull the plug, but to be sure they said to do a restart as you said.
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