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View Poll Results: When do you think the TiVo Mini will actually go on sale?
Before Thanksgiving 2012 15 11.63%
Before Christmas 2012 19 14.73%
First Quarter 2013 48 37.21%
Summer 2013 15 11.63%
Holiday season 2013 12 9.30%
Cable Companies will get it FAR in advance 8 6.20%
never. It will get canned 12 9.30%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2012, 09:23 AM   #181
shwru980r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
You can choose to allocate 0 tuners to the Mini if you wish thereby retaining all 4 tuners. If really needed once a in a while you can enable 1 tuner for live TV viewing on Mini. TiVo could even add control over that from the Mini itself if they wanted to (though they probably won't).
OK, that's good, but the Tivo isn't going to know how long you want to keep the tuner allocated. Would the Tivo prompt you to resolve every conflict created by the tuner allocation request before letting you watch live TV?
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:25 AM   #182
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Speculating is so much fun .

Frankly I am betting that many users of stand alone TiVo DVRs (as apposed to cable company provided TiVo DVRs) will end up looking at the mini and deciding that they are better off with multiple DVRs.
I think the only thing that would drive many users to dual DVRs is pricing.

I expect I am a typical user - Large screen TV in the family room where 90% of our viewing is done. Smaller screen TV in my bedroom used mostly for late night viewing. Something along the lines of the mini makes perfect sense for me - It can use a tuner (most of my late night viewing is "live"), but I also have the opportunity to finish off a movie I started in my family room. I don't want a large DVR in my bedroom. A box closer in size to my Roku, and without a hard drive would definitely be preferable.

If Tivo chooses to price the mini so high that it's comparable with a second DVR, I expect they will lose sales to people like me.

My old Tivo died a few years ago (well, not physically - it was a non-Tivo branded unit and had software issues that Tivo refused to address / would no longer work). We all loved having it, but the lack of a cost effective whole home solution kept me from purchasing another. I'm hoping that changes, but if not, I won't be purchasing anything from Tivo any time soon.

...and BTW, as a Cablevision customer, I can stream to my iPhone and iPad for free. That also should be a "built-in" feature and not an added box / expense.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:31 AM   #183
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http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-wholehome/index.html

The images on this page aren't rendering properly on any of my devices.
There is absolutely nothing new in that page. I was hoping to see thin clients mentioned but no. Just streaming to another premier.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #184
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OK, that's good, but the Tivo isn't going to know how long you want to keep the tuner allocated. Would the Tivo prompt you to resolve every conflict created by the tuner allocation request before letting you watch live TV?
not being sarcastic- i dont understand the need for live tv to take a tuner. it there's something you want to watch- why not just set the recording from the mini and then stream the program?

I guess you need the tuner allocated if you want to surf and bounce around between channels?

We have no idea but i'm sure tivo knows what percentage of their subs surfs and how often they do. Would love to see those numbers but think such things are probably more closely guarded then DOD secrets.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #185
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The Mini is designed mainly to meet the needs of TiVo's MSO partners. And since they have a vested interest in people watching commercials they're not going to do anything to specifically foster a mindset of recording everything. Plus they're competing with other whole home offerings in the industry, all of which offer live TV streaming. It may not seem like an important option to us, but it's important to MSOs and to a lot of new customers who don't quite grasp the concept of a DVR yet.

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Old 12-02-2012, 04:03 PM   #186
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It's really not much different than using a VCR back in the 80's. At least the concept has the same goal. You use it to time shift all your TV watching. At least that is what I did. Although it took a bunch of VCRs to do it. But it's so much easier with a couple of DVRs.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:00 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by TivoQueensDad View Post
I think the only thing that would drive many users to dual DVRs is pricing.

...

If Tivo chooses to price the mini so high that it's comparable with a second DVR, I expect they will lose sales to people like me.

...

...and BTW, as a Cablevision customer, I can stream to my iPhone and iPad for free. That also should be a "built-in" feature and not an added box / expense.
Yes I believe the price of the mini will be one of the determining factors in deciding if the mini is preferable over multiple DVRs, but I don't think it will be the only one.

For someone like you that doesn't own an HD TiVo now I would think a whole home solution with mini will make sense but it still isn't going to be cheap. I am guessing something near $1000 for the DVR, Mini, & lifetime service, maybe that will also get you a TiVo Stream so you can stream content from the DVR to your i-device maybe not.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:28 PM   #188
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Question We have a winner

Looks like we have a winner; apparently the mini is FINALLY getting released around the first quarter of 2013 (although, I wouldn't be surprised at all if its closer to the summer time)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-01/...ce-fee-in-tow/

Looks like a monthly service fee will be attached to it too. I'm thinking (& hoping) around $5/month. Now, I wonder how long it will take them to make it also work with a 2-tuner Premiere. And of course, the real question for me; does it lock down/steal a tuner from a 4-tuner Premiere.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:44 PM   #189
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Yeah, that's all been discussed to death in the "TiVo Mini Lives" thread.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:00 AM   #190
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Coming out end of 1st qtr
Monthly fee: $8.00
Lifetime: TBD
Cost: TBD
Does not work with 2 tuner Premiere
Dedicates 1 tuner from 4 tuner Premiere or upcoming (summer or fall) new 6 tuner Premiere.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:09 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Davisadm View Post
Coming out end of 1st qtr
Monthly fee: $8.00
Lifetime: TBD
Cost: TBD
Does not work with 2 tuner Premiere
Dedicates 1 tuner from 4 tuner Premiere or upcoming (summer or fall) new 6 tuner Premiere.
Where did you hear the monthly fee was $8? And where did you hear a 6 tuner unit was coming in summer or fall?

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:31 AM   #192
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And where did you hear a 6 tuner unit was coming in summer or fall?

Dan
He's probably referring to the Pace built 6 tuner DVR gateway that will be provided through a MVPD.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:54 AM   #193
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Where did you hear the monthly fee was $8? And where did you hear a 6 tuner unit was coming in summer or fall?

Dan
Last week, reliable source
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:02 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisadm View Post
Coming out end of 1st qtr
Monthly fee: $8.00
Lifetime: TBD
Cost: TBD
Does not work with 2 tuner Premiere
Dedicates 1 tuner from 4 tuner Premiere or upcoming (summer or fall) new 6 tuner Premiere.
Hopefully it has more than 2TBs.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #195
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Last week, reliable source
I guess we'll see how reliable they are in a couple months. $8/mo seems high to me for a Mini. Unless the initial hardware is really cheap.

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:14 PM   #196
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$8/mo. is a total non-starter, guess we'll have to see how much the box is w/lifetime.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #197
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$8/mo. is a total non-starter, guess we'll have to see how much the box is w/lifetime.
Glad I'm not the only one to think this. Monthly cost to Tivo is probably pennies per box at most. Very inconsistent policy concerning non-primary-set viewing based on device - iPad vs second TV.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:39 PM   #198
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Yeah - I am not thinking this is going to make sense for me either.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #199
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For a Premiere, how many months does it take to equal lifetime? About 30? If they use the same model, lifetime for a Mini would be around $240.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:29 PM   #200
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I'm paying $6.95/month on my Premiere-that-would-be-a-mini. And it has dual tuners and a hard drive in it. Add on the $2 a month I pay for the CableCard, and it's still only 95 cents more than this mini thing will cost.

TiVo blows it again.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:38 PM   #201
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Dedicates 1 tuner from 4 tuner Premiere or upcoming (summer or fall) new 6 tuner Premiere.
Interesting. This is a 6-tuner "Premiere" for sure, not a "next-gen" box? Without at least a cpu upgrade that thing would be sluggish as hell. (I guess it could be both, but that kinda confuses things.)
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:25 PM   #202
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At $8 a month, I calling it a big waste of time. I'll not even be considering this. Lifetime sounds like an expensive proposition as well.

If this is really true then I think Tivo might as well not even bother with it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:53 PM   #203
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Interesting. This is a 6-tuner "Premiere" for sure, not a "next-gen" box? Without at least a cpu upgrade that thing would be sluggish as hell. (I guess it could be both, but that kinda confuses things.)
Not possible. The current platform only supports 4 tuners. They have to do a new design to add 6 tuners no matter what.

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:10 PM   #204
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Not possible. The current platform only supports 4 tuners. They have to do a new design to add 6 tuners no matter what.

Dan
How do you figure? The original premier had two tuners.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:58 AM   #205
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The original Premiere had 4 tuners, two cable and two ATSC. For the 4 tuner model they simply replaced the two ATSC tuners with two more cable tuners. In fact the reason they had to disable analog recording is because the chipset they use only supports encoding two analog streams at a time. With the original Premiere this was OK because it was never allowed to record more then two things at once. But with the 4 tuner model they would have had to make the scheduler asymmetrical to support analog. For simplicity they just turned off analog completely instead.

The 6 tuner unit will need to be a whole new platform. It'll likely use a similar chipset which supports Adobe AIR, so they don't have to rewrite all the software, but it'll likely be newer and more capable of handling the burden of supporting 6 tuners.

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Old 01-19-2013, 01:16 AM   #206
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I wouldn't be surprised if they called it a Premiere still.

I really think they will keep the Premiere name for a while or at least until they are ready to release the next 2 tuner model.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:17 AM   #207
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Is this a limitation within the CPU itself or some other secondary chip on the pcb? (I'm curious as an amateur nerd.)

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 01-19-2013 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:42 AM   #208
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The original Premiere had 4 tuners, two cable and two ATSC. For the 4 tuner model they simply replaced the two ATSC tuners with two more cable tuners.
I thought the original Premiere had two tuners, each with a combined QAM/ATSC/NTSC tuner, and a pair of MPEG encoders to turn analog signals into digital. Or else it was a dual-tuner QAM chip and a dual-tuner ATSC/NTSC chip. Either way I'm pretty sure I remember it only having two tuner modules. There are no provisions for recording four sources at once, even if they programmed it to do so, because it only has two physical tuners.

The reasoning behind the waiver for the Elite was so that they could use a single 4-tuner QAM chip instead of four QAM/ATSC/NTSC chips and four sets of MPEG encoders. They removed about $100 worth of hardware to make the Elite, compared to what it would cost with all those extra tuners and support chips. If a 4-tuner QAM/ATSC tuner chip existed, we'd have a 4-tuner OTA TiVo.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:07 AM   #209
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The MPEG encoder is built into the Broadcom chipset*, which is the same in both units, and only supports encoding 2 streams at a time. It's not part of the tuner module itself. The physical tuner modules in the Premiere do have multiple tuner chips in them but they still each feed into a separate "port" on the chipset. And there are only 4 tuner "ports" on the chipset used for the current platform, which is why they can never have more then 4 tuners.

The 6 tuner unit will likely still be called a Premiere, and will run the same basic software, but it will have to use a better chipset which will likely improve performance over the current units. In addition to being faster and supporting more tuners some of the newer Broadcom chipsets also support H.264 transcoding which means the unit could have built in TiVo Stream capabilities.

Also, I can't be 100% certain, but I believe it is highly likely that given the proper software the 2 tuner Premiere units could actually record 4 things at once. Two from cable and two from ATSC. However they would never do that because it would be way to confusing for the user and the scheduling logic.

Dan

* Every TiVo since the original S2 has used an MPEG encoder built into the chipset.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:25 AM   #210
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I can't find a 6-tuner QAM chip in the Broadcom catalog. I only see 4 and 8 tuner. The 8-tuner chip is interesting, because it has MoCA built-in, along with a DOCSIS 2.0 cable modem. This could save some money for TiVo and also eliminate the tuning adapter for SDV users.
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