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Old 01-07-2013, 02:37 PM   #5701
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When I ordered Showtime I lost some channels until they fixed it.

Some idiot borked up your account by trying to add things. A tech visit or a new adapter ain't gonna fix it.

Call 'em back and try to get someone competent.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:38 PM   #5702
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I'm on TWC Austin and will be moving to a Cablecard soon. Fortunately TWC Austin has one of the better track records regarding Tivo, CableCards and TAs as far as i can tell. So my apprehension level is not too high just yet.

However, I read on another Tivocommunity thread that TWC enable copy protection on ALL digital channels. Does anyone know if this is true? Does TWC Austin do this? If they do, that will be a problem as my wife sometimes likes to put Tivo recorded shows on her iPad when she travels. I use Toast and a new Mac Mini to prepare the files, but if they are copy protected I assume this will no longer work.
You are correct. All TWC markets do this.

You will be limited to only transferring your local broadcast channels. It sucks
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #5703
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Has anyone seen the use of a cable splitter as the cause of a problem with channel reception?

It does not seem the tuning adapter to be the problem...troubleshooting with the Time Warner tech did not seem to reveal a cable card issue....
Is the splitter causing the problem? Could switching cable outlets have created a problem?
Any thought on this?
This does seem to be the likely source of your trouble. Either the splitter is inadequate or the cable outlet you moved to has an issue. One thing I have seen in home video cables and cables where I work (video post production) is that a single strand of the shielding braid can sometime get caught in the connector and can even touch the center conductor. With analog it usually will work anyway even though the signal will be degraded. With digital it will not work. In fact digital is very sensitive to this and many other things like cable kinking. For digital to work, your cabling has to be perfect.

EDIT: In fact I am upgrading some of my wire and devices in anticipation of going digital/cablecard. I added an Electroline Drop Amp (unity gain because my runs are not very long). It passes all signals (digital and analog) in both directions. http://www.electroline.com/product_EDA_UG.php Also making sure the cables I have are properly terminated and are good quality RG-6.

I have concerns about an outdoor splitter TWC put in years ago when I got Roadrunner. If I have problems when I get the Cablecard I'll have the option of removing the splitter and using the Electroline to split off the various TV cables and the cable modem line without any losses.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:12 PM   #5704
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Has anyone seen the use of a cable splitter as the cause of a problem with channel reception?

It does not seem the tuning adapter to be the problem...troubleshooting with the Time Warner tech did not seem to reveal a cable card issue....
Is the splitter causing the problem? Could switching cable outlets have created a problem?
Any thought on this?
Any time you change something on the coax wiring, you risk causing a signal quality problem that TA's are sensitive to. Putting a splitter in divides the signal strength, adds new connections that if not done well add noise. Go to the TA diagnostic page and check the FDC and SNR levels. FDC should be no more than +/- 10 (closer to 0 the better) and RDC should over 30.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:38 PM   #5705
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Any time you change something on the coax wiring, you risk causing a signal quality problem that TA's are sensitive to. Putting a splitter in divides the signal strength, adds new connections that if not done well add noise. Go to the TA diagnostic page and check the FDC and SNR levels. FDC should be no more than +/- 10 (closer to 0 the better) and RDC should over 30.
got it...I'll do it.

Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:48 PM   #5706
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Just to clarify which FDC and RDC stat...
FDC +/-10 dBmV (closer to 0 the better)
RDC over 30 dBmV
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:57 PM   #5707
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Just to clarify which FDC and RDC stat...
FDC +/-10 dBmV (closer to 0 the better)
RDC over 30 dBmV
okay...I didn't find RDC, and there ARE TWO fdc'S...here is what the screen says:

Downstream status, OOB Freq: 75.250 MHz, carrier lock: yes, SNR 17dB fair, data:yes, hunt mode: none

inband freq: 693.000 MHz QAM256, carrier lock: yes, SNR 32 dB Good
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:31 AM   #5708
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What model TA do you have? These are the TA diag pages from my Cisco STA1520


Attached Images
File Type: jpg ta_diag1.jpg (32.0 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg ta_diag2.jpg (33.0 KB, 130 views)
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:36 AM   #5709
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I don't recognize that screen...will have to check when I get home later today...Time Warner scheduled for a 4:00 appointment this afternoon...let's hope they can resolve this.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:26 PM   #5710
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My TA's are Motorola....
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #5711
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Well, them's shoes of a different sort. Not sure if the Motorola equipment operates the same way or has the same signal specs.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM   #5712
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okay...I didn't find RDC, and there ARE TWO fdc'S...here is what the screen says:

Downstream status, OOB Freq: 75.250 MHz, carrier lock: yes, SNR 17dB fair, data:yes, hunt mode: none

inband freq: 693.000 MHz QAM256, carrier lock: yes, SNR 32 dB Good
On a Cisco system at least, both these SNR's would be on the low side. My OOB SNR is typically 26 dB and inband QAM256 (i.e., a tuned channel) SNR is typically in the 34+ dB range.

Measure the signal strengths for some channels. I suspect they will be on the low side (i.e., below 75).
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:45 AM   #5713
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so what exactly does the SNR tell me?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:57 AM   #5714
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SNR (and S/N on Cisco) is the signal to noise ratio. It's recommended to be higher than 30 dB. SNR of 17 dB is too low. Could be from low signal level due to too many splits or high noise level due to bad cable or connectors. Did cable tech not find anything yesterday?
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:03 PM   #5715
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SNR (and S/N on Cisco) is the signal to noise ratio. It's recommended to be higher than 30 dB. SNR of 17 dB is too low. Could be from low signal level due to too many splits or high noise level due to bad cable or connectors. Did cable tech not find anything yesterday?
he no-showed....very frustrating...I spent an hour on the phone last night..when setting the appointment, I had asked them to do the appointment pre-call to my cell phone because my plan was to just leave the office and head home when he called....well, he called my home number instead...no one was there, so they cancelled the appointment.

After an hour, being transferred seven times, and receiving no satisfaction, I finally got to the retention/cancellation group....we are re-scheduled for this afternoon.

More to follow.....
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM   #5716
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SNR (and S/N on Cisco) is the signal to noise ratio. It's recommended to be higher than 30 dB. SNR of 17 dB is too low. Could be from low signal level due to too many splits or high noise level due to bad cable or connectors. Did cable tech not find anything yesterday?
Acceptable SNR differs with modulation type. 30+ is required for QAM256 but the OOB channel is QAM64 which requires less SNR.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:57 PM   #5717
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I think QAM64 still needs SNR over 24 dB maybe.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #5718
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I think QAM64 still needs SNR over 24 dB maybe.
I dont know the actual value needed... but QAM64 can definitely cope with quite a bit more noise than QAM256 and thus can operate at a much lower SNR than QAM256..... BUT... In the same cable system, I wouldnt expect such large delta between the FDC and the channel you are trying to watch. With my TA, the SNR delta between FDC and watched channel is about 5db (33db FDC vs 38db RDC) as measured by the TA. The signal level is 5dBmV different (-4dBmV vs 1dBmV). To have a 25db SNR difference means the FDC is at a pretty low level in comparison with the active channel (which is also showing a questionable SNR of 32db).


Page 14 shows a table with error probabilities for both schemes at various SNR's. It shows 24db SNR as pretty much sucking for both schemes. At 30db SNR, it shows QAM64 as having 8 orders of magnitude better error probabilities than QAM256.

http://docsis.beckitrue.com/document...ER_BER_104.pdf

lrhorer could do this subject more justice than I could.

EDIT: Found another reference to acceptable SNR's..

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/5862

QPSK: 12 dB minimum. 15 dB or higher recommended. (often used in upstream channels)
16 QAM: 18 dB minimum. 21 dB or higher recommended. (often used in upstream channels)
64 QAM: 24 dB minimum. 27 dB or higher recommended. (often used in downstream channels)
256 QAM: 30 dB minimum. 33 dB or higher recommended. (often used in downstream channels)

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Old 01-09-2013, 08:13 PM   #5719
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So do you think smoberly's issue is due to poor signal or too much noise or something else?
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:24 PM   #5720
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So do you think smoberly's issue is due to poor signal or too much noise or something else?
I think he has a poor signal problem. Low overall level with too much negative tilt. Bad cable, bad splitter etc etc.

However, that may not be the only problem there is. TA's and Cablecards are notorious for issues leading from cableco account configuration problems... (improperly balanced or configured accounts etc). Since TWC is mostly Cisco based and that is what is typically discussed here, I dont know if Moto based systems have the same kind of issues. That said... the first thing I would do is clean up the signal and get the SNR's up to snuff. Then I would reinitialize the account and re-hit the boxes and see what results.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:45 AM   #5721
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I think he has a poor signal problem. Low overall level with too much negative tilt. Bad cable, bad splitter etc etc.

However, that may not be the only problem there is. TA's and Cablecards are notorious for issues leading from cableco account configuration problems... (improperly balanced or configured accounts etc). Since TWC is mostly Cisco based and that is what is typically discussed here, I dont know if Moto based systems have the same kind of issues. That said... the first thing I would do is clean up the signal and get the SNR's up to snuff. Then I would reinitialize the account and re-hit the boxes and see what results.
SCSIRAID--Thanks so much for the input....by means of update, Time Warner no-showed again last night. The tech actually called me at 3:30 to tell me he would be late for the 4:00-5:00 appointment...said it would be closer to 5:45 as he was still on a job. I told him that was fine and that I would be home at that time...just call back when on the way. 6:30 rolls around and I call TW to check on the status...appointment has been closed because no one was home when the tech arrived (this is not true--wife home all day, I got home by 5:15). I blew a gasket, but a lot of good that did....I am now rescheduled again for Friday afternoon...the best retention department would do was to offer a $20 missed appointment credit, or as I was told by the supervisor I spoke to....we would be happy to process a disconnect order for you.

At any rate...needless to say, were it not for the fact that TW is the only option for me to continue to use my TiVo's, I'd be gone so fast....

So, SCSIRAID, back to the issue at hand….when the tech theoretically arrives tomorrow, what should he do to make sure that he, “Cleans up the signal and get the SNR's up to snuff.” What exactly should I expect that he will do?

I appreciate your help….we started losing channels in the bedroom last night, too…which is so odd…I had none of these problems prior to the appointment last weekend when all they did was add internet service….I can’t begin to understand why that would affect my two bedroom units.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #5722
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or as I was told by the supervisor I spoke to....we would be happy to process a disconnect order for you.
TWC must be your only option, as that person clearly threw that in your face.

Far as troubleshooting; have you tried connecting a new RG6 cable from the first split to the problematic TiVo(s)?
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:38 PM   #5723
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SCSIRAID--Thanks so much for the input....by means of update, Time Warner no-showed again last night. The tech actually called me at 3:30 to tell me he would be late for the 4:00-5:00 appointment...said it would be closer to 5:45 as he was still on a job. I told him that was fine and that I would be home at that time...just call back when on the way. 6:30 rolls around and I call TW to check on the status...appointment has been closed because no one was home when the tech arrived (this is not true--wife home all day, I got home by 5:15). I blew a gasket, but a lot of good that did....I am now rescheduled again for Friday afternoon...the best retention department would do was to offer a $20 missed appointment credit, or as I was told by the supervisor I spoke to....we would be happy to process a disconnect order for you.

At any rate...needless to say, were it not for the fact that TW is the only option for me to continue to use my TiVo's, I'd be gone so fast....

So, SCSIRAID, back to the issue at hand….when the tech theoretically arrives tomorrow, what should he do to make sure that he, “Cleans up the signal and get the SNR's up to snuff.” What exactly should I expect that he will do?

I appreciate your help….we started losing channels in the bedroom last night, too…which is so odd…I had none of these problems prior to the appointment last weekend when all they did was add internet service….I can’t begin to understand why that would affect my two bedroom units.
I would expect him to take his signal analyzer and look at signal quality where the cable enters your house. That would tell him whether the problem is backward or forward from that point. Then he would walk forward or backward thru the cabling and replace coax connectors and spltters till he finds the culprit. He can look at the levels on TA's and other STB's without even being at your house IF they are in 2 way mode and able to communicate else he can check there with the same signal analyzer.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:55 PM   #5724
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I would expect him to take his signal analyzer and look at signal quality where the cable enters your house. That would tell him whether the problem is backward or forward from that point. Then he would walk forward or backward thru the cabling and replace coax connectors and spltters till he finds the culprit. He can look at the levels on TA's and other STB's without even being at your house IF they are in 2 way mode and able to communicate else he can check there with the same signal analyzer.
Thanks...let's see what happens...at this point, I'll be happy to just have someone show up at my apartment.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:02 PM   #5725
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Time Warner tech on the way now...took an executive level escalation to get someone's attention....hopefully he is successful.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:15 PM   #5726
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Time Warner tech on the way now...took an executive level escalation to get someone's attention....hopefully he is successful.
Hopefully they send an actual TWC Employee and not a contractor. The in house techs seem to be more knowledgeable.

TWC worked their butts off with me back when TiVo had undiagnosed pixelation problems on SDV channels. They ended up sending an engineer up from Charlotte with about 100K of test equipment which allowed us to figure out what was going on.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:37 PM   #5727
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I would expect him to take his signal analyzer and look at signal quality where the cable enters your house. That would tell him whether the problem is backward or forward from that point. Then he would walk forward or backward thru the cabling and replace coax connectors and spltters till he finds the culprit. He can look at the levels on TA's and other STB's without even being at your house IF they are in 2 way mode and able to communicate else he can check there with the same signal analyzer.
How sophisticated is that signal analyzer? How does it assess tilt, or variation of signal strength or SNR with frequency over the band? I guessing maybe it looks af several discrete 6 MHz bands spread over the band. Does it do any QAM demodulation to check the bitstream quality? My guess is it doesn't.

I'm still amazed (and grateful) at the work you did with TWC and TiVo to get the SDV glitch problem fixed. I get momentary pixelations several seconds after transitions between programs and commercials which I suspect result from an inability of the Tivo HD decoders to handle something. These things don't occur with the Cisco or Samsung DVR's on the same cable system and they don't occur for antenna (OTA) signals. I wonder if the Premiere and Elite tuners would perform better.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #5728
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How sophisticated is that signal analyzer? How does it assess tilt, or variation of signal strength or SNR with frequency over the band? I guessing maybe it looks af several discrete 6 MHz bands spread over the band. Does it do any QAM demodulation to check the bitstream quality? My guess is it doesn't.

I'm still amazed (and grateful) at the work you did with TWC and TiVo to get the SDV glitch problem fixed. I get momentary pixelations several seconds after transitions between programs and commercials which I suspect result from an inability of the Tivo HD decoders to handle something. These things don't occur with the Cisco or Samsung DVR's on the same cable system and they don't occur for antenna (OTA) signals. I wonder if the Premiere and Elite tuners would perform better.
The analyzers they carry here are quite sophisticated. The even do QAM analysis and show constellation diagrams.

I had a lot of fun with the pixelation issue... It drove me crazy but the 'hunt' for the problem was very enlightening. Im just glad we found it and TiVo fixed it. TWC was good about providing the info as to what was wrong to TiVo.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:52 AM   #5729
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The analyzers they carry here are quite sophisticated. The even do QAM analysis and show constellation diagrams.
.........
Can they tune to any 6 MHz band or just to selected frequencies? Also, I wonder if there are different (less sophisticated) boxes that most technicians use. I had one in my house and neither he nor the instrument he used to check signals seemed to be that sophisticated -- and he couldn't explain what it did very well. The instrument was handheld and about the size of a shoe box but not as deep. I suppose the equipment they use could vary with TWC region, of course.

I definitely suspect the attitude towards TiVo varies with TWC region -- I can't imagine my TWC dispatching a fully equipped team of engineers to debug a TiVo problem!
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #5730
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smoberly, let's get an update on Stump the Chumps. Did the TWC tech solve the issue?
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