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Old 12-06-2012, 11:10 PM   #1
DaveDFW
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Zero suggestions on XL4?

My XL4 is about two weeks old now, and I have yet to receive one recorded suggestion. I'm seeing the same behavior as on my old S3s--the suggestions list never populates with any shows despite having suggestions turned on and page and pages of thumbs ratings. My Tivo has the current 20.2.2.1 software.

Find TV, Movies & Videos --> Browse TV --> TV --> Suggestions --> "Wait a few hours..."

In the S3, this was a never-resolved issue related to tuning adapters. Disconnecting the TA would allow the list to populate, reconnecting would allow the populated suggestions to record. I assumed they had fixed this issue with the S4s. I called Tivo support and the agent had never heard of this issue in the S3 and suggested an RMA for the XL4.

I've done the only troubleshooting step on tivo.com--turn off suggestions, reboot, turn on suggestions, reboot again.

I haven't seen any other posts detailing problems with the various S4 models and suggestions, so am I unique? What else can I try to enable suggestions?
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:05 AM   #2
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Follow up--this is exactly the same behavior as the S3. I left the XL4's TA disconnected overnight and four pages of suggestions magically populated.

No one else is having this problem?
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #3
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Have you tried getting a new tuning adapter from the cable company?
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:12 PM   #4
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Same problem here.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #5
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When I was on TWC in Dallas, I had that problem on every model of Series 3, but not on the Premiere. I didn't get the Elite until after I left Dallas, but I assumed it would work on any Series 4 box. Maybe one of the recent updates re-introduced that bug.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #6
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I don't really suspect my TA is faulty, especially since this is exactly the same way in which S3 and HD suggestions fail with the same workaround. To me, this is obviously a Tivo software issue.

This is also not a speculative tuning issue. Once the suggestions list has been populated with the TA disconnected, the Tivo successfully records suggestions on SDV channels once the TA is reconnected. I'm watching my suggestions list slowly decrease as suggestions have been recording all weekend.

Either Tivo has broken the S4 suggestion programming or Time-Warner in North Texas is doing something that isn't being done in other markets.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:04 AM   #7
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No suggestions. I miss suggestions.
I have this problem with premiere 4 and had it with the S3, the in off reboot worked on the s3 rarely, the new TiVo has recorded 1 suggestion despite my best efforts in over a month (and it happened to be a blank channel.)
I have an old tuning adapter that occasionally has dropped out, wonder if that contributes to the problem but clearly TiVo doesnt handle SDV well.
Will have try the disconnection method.
Hey, anybody on Cox Phoenix with the digital package ever seen anything on the 3d channel? I get nothing, ever.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:07 PM   #8
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My XL4 records some suggestions, but always in SD when I have the same channel in HD. I wish there was a way to set suggestions to record HD only.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:16 PM   #9
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Turn off the SD versions of the channels.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:56 PM   #10
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Turn off the SD versions of the channels.
Bingo!
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
What else can I try to enable suggestions?

Play the game, if you have the patience, and start rma-ing tivos until they say uncle.
Or,
Since disconnecting the tuning adapter is a known work around.
Put the tuning adapter power supply on a timer

edit I stand corrected
Or,
Deny network access to the tuning adapter within the network router.


Last edited by Teeps : 01-01-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:46 AM   #12
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The tuning adapter doesn't connect to your network. It talks to the cableco headend via coax using its built-in cable modem.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
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The tuning adapter doesn't connect to your network. It talks to the cableco headend via coax using its built-in cable modem.
You are correct.

I was thinking of the running out of guide data problem.

In which either disconnecting the tuning adapter, from tivo; or tivo from network is a work around.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:24 AM   #14
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Best way is to put the tuning adapter on a timer and have it shut off late at night so the suggestions list will populate. No SDV channels will tune or record during this time, but who sets up a lot of season passes in the middle of the night?
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:10 AM   #15
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Wow! Suggestions recording after leaving it unplugged for a few hours! So how often do I need to cycle the TA?
And I am going to experiment to find out for how long it needs to be unplugged; is it a database lookup that has a trigger post network connection, or reboot, or something.
Why am I excited that when I already have too much to watch my TiVo will find me more stuff? No idea, but I am!
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permanentpress View Post
Wow! Suggestions recording after leaving it unplugged for a few hours! So how often do I need to cycle the TA?
When I tested, I just left the TA unplugged overnight when I had no scheduled recordings. So eight hours or so has been sufficient to allow the suggestions list to populate with about four days of suggestions.

I'm not so fond of suggestions that I will continually disconnect the TA. It's just a feature that doesn't work correctly and it will stay that way unless Tivo issues a software fix.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 01-02-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #17
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I am experiencing the same problem with my new XL4. I replaced a TiVo HD, transferring the cable card and tuning adapter. I never had any problems recording suggestions before, the XL4 still has plenty of free space, but no suggestions.

One thing that seems odd, but may lend a clue as to what the problem is.... Tivo sent down a line up change, adding the military channel in HD, but it isn't live yet, when I try to tune to the new channel, I get a message "channel not provided by tuning adapter. Contact your cable provider for more information". Seems pretty standard. Except when I go into the suggestions screen, there is one (and the only one) pending/future/possible recording, on (drum roll) the military channel HD.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben_Jamin75 View Post
Tivo sent down a line up change, adding the military channel in HD, but it isn't live yet, when I try to tune to the new channel, I get a message "channel not provided by tuning adapter. Contact your cable provider for more information". Seems pretty standard. Except when I go into the suggestions screen, there is one (and the only one) pending/future/possible recording, on (drum roll) the military channel HD.
TiVo did not send down a line-up change, your cable company did.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:24 PM   #19
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TiVo did not send down a line-up change, your cable company did.
No. The cable company notified tribune, the company that tivo uses for guide data that they were adding channels. The line up was updated on tribune/tivo's servers, which was pushed out to my box on a daily call. There was a message on my tivo, which I have seen many times over the years, "a line up change has occurred". And i now receive guide data for the channels are not live yet, they are due to be added 1/13/13. Someone somewhere between the cable company, tribune, and tivo, jumped the gun and sent out the change early.

I have also experienced times where the cable company adds channels and tivo knows nothing about it. In that case, the cable card sees the channel, but there is not guide data because tivo/tribune hasn't been updated.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:42 AM   #20
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Every channel add I have gotten in the last two years happened 2-14 days before the channel actually went live. I'd rather have a dead channel that exists for a while than have an active channel that has no guide data.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:37 PM   #21
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...and now back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress

Quote:
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Every channel add I have gotten in the last two years happened 2-14 days before the channel actually went live. I'd rather have a dead channel that exists for a while than have an active channel that has no guide data.

I've only had it happen a couple times that I had to report a line up issue to get tivo/tribune to fix it and get guide data.

I agree, I'd rather have it added early than late.

But, back to the topic of this tread....
I just found it interesting that I had suggestions ONLY from the channel that the tuning adapter didn't know anything about. It's seems to add evidence to the working theory that premiers, tuning adapters & suggestions don't get along, at least for some.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:50 PM   #22
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I've only had it happen a couple times that I had to report a line up issue to get tivo/tribune to fix it and get guide data.

I agree, I'd rather have it added early than late.

But, back to the topic of this tread....
I just found it interesting that I had suggestions ONLY from the channel that the tuning adapter didn't know anything about. It's seems to add evidence to the working theory that premiers, tuning adapters & suggestions don't get along, at least for some.
Part of the SDV protocol allows TiVo to ask the headend (thru the TA) to tune a channel with a lower priority for suggestions than it does for normal channel requests. And the headend can respond with a negative response. So most likely the issue is a headend issue with tuning adapters and not technically a problem with the TiVo. It could also not be an issue at all but rather there are too many nodes and thus all suggestion channel requests fail.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:01 PM   #23
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Part of the SDV protocol allows TiVo to ask the headend (thru the TA) to tune a channel with a lower priority for suggestions than it does for normal channel requests. And the headend can respond with a negative response. So most likely the issue is a headend issue with tuning adapters and not technically a problem with the TiVo. It could also not be an issue at all but rather there are too many nodes and thus all suggestion channel requests fail.
No, as I mentioned above this isn't a speculative tuning issue. In my case, all suggestions will record IF the suggestions list is populated. If speculative recordings are being blocked because of the provider's policy, the block will occur at the time of channel request. If speculative recording were being blocked, nothing on the suggestions list would record and each failed attempt would generate an error in the recording history.

The problem is that under some circumstances a Tivo with a TA attached will not populate the suggestions list. Step one in the suggestions-recording process is failing.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 01-06-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Part of the SDV protocol allows TiVo to ask the headend (thru the TA) to tune a channel with a lower priority for suggestions than it does for normal channel requests. And the headend can respond with a negative response. So most likely the issue is a headend issue with tuning adapters and not technically a problem with the TiVo. It could also not be an issue at all but rather there are too many nodes and thus all suggestion channel requests fail.
No, it's the tivo. Same cable card, same tuning adapter, same cable company. Only change, replacing TiVo HD with premiere XL4.

XL4 doesn't show anything in the suggestions screen
Find TV, movies, & videos -> browse TV & movies -> TV -> suggestions

Old TiVo HD always had shows listed in its suggestion screen. I have not had any major tuning adapter issues, until now.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:56 PM   #25
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By chance, does anyone have any new insight into this issue?

Back on 1/22 I changed cable companies and discovered when installers arrived that Charter uses SDV in my area when they had a pair of Motorola TAs with them. At first no issues, but then a few days later I noted that both my Premiere (bought around Oct/Nov) and TiVo HD had stopped recording suggestions. I really rely on suggestions!

I followed along with some advice here and found both had nothing in their list of Suggestions. The wife (with the HD) doesn't care much, and I was able to get a handful of items on the Premiere with an overnight power-down, but it hasn't been long enough yet to conclusively determine whether this will end up recording any of those programs.

So...does anyone have any new insights? I've found nothing useful on TiVo's own forums or elsewhere.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:29 PM   #26
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I was able to get a handful of items on the Premiere with an overnight power-down, but it hasn't been long enough yet to conclusively determine whether this will end up recording any of those programs.
Once the suggestions list has populated with the tuning adapter powered off, they should record when the tuning adapter is powered on assuming that the suggestions don't conflict with scheduled recordings or that a speculative tune isn't blocked at the time of request.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:31 AM   #27
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Once the suggestions list has populated with the tuning adapter powered off, they should record when the tuning adapter is powered on assuming that the suggestions don't conflict with scheduled recordings or that a speculative tune isn't blocked at the time of request.
That's generally what I learned from this thread. And when I followed this advice and got some stuff on the suggestions list, I did in fact get a small number of suggestions recorded -- including some that weren't on that list. But this is still not even close to a good solution.

I'm wondering about something else, though. Charter's instructions for both brands of TAs show it with a cable splitter, and I've read in numerous places here and elsewhere that you really can lose the splitter and use the coax in/out instead. I'm curious if that would make any difference in this.

One way or another, I'm really not happy if I need to power down my TA overnight periodically to get my suggestions working again -- it really makes my TiVo experience worthwhile!
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:56 AM   #28
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I'm wondering about something else, though. Charter's instructions for both brands of TAs show it with a cable splitter, and I've read in numerous places here and elsewhere that you really can lose the splitter and use the coax in/out instead. I'm curious if that would make any difference in this.
In my experience, it makes no difference how the coax signal reaches the Tivo. Whether you use the tuning adapter's pass-through or split the coax and feed the Tivo separately will not affect the suggestions issue. For those who experience the issue, merely having the tuning adapter powered on and attached via USB prevents the suggestions list from populating.

Removing power from the tuning adapter isn't the only method which works. You may also disconnect the USB cable and effect the same result of populating the suggestions list. It's just that powering down the tuning adapter is easier to automate with an external timer for those who choose to implement a workaround.

Quote:
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But this is still not even close to a good solution. ... I'm really not happy if I need to power down my TA overnight periodically to get my suggestions working again...
I absolutely agree. This is clearly a Tivo software error and and Tivo's refusal to address the issue is unforgivable.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 02-01-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:25 PM   #29
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I'm not yet ready to implement a timer-based workaround, but I'll keep that in mind for later -- especially on my Premiere, as the wife seems to care far less about this than I do.

But after all I've read thus far, I do think TiVo is dragging on this matter. It's clearly not just on the Premiere, either, since I'm getting it on a TiVo HD and Premiere.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:29 PM   #30
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It's clearly not just on the Premiere, either, since I'm getting it on a TiVo HD and Premiere.
True, this issue occurs on the S3 and HD also. But because further development is practically dead for those platforms, the chance of receiving a software fix is effectively zero.

The Premiere line, however, is a current product for which Tivo is still releasing software updates. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect software fixes for major flaws on a current product.

Last edited by DaveDFW : 02-01-2013 at 01:43 PM. Reason: One more sentence.
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