TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #91
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnow789 View Post
My Series 3 has started doing this tonight. I deleted the show (and cleaned out others). If it keeps happening I'm done with Tivo. My ROKU player streams just fine for free and if I can't find it there I wont watch it.

I'm really lament the loss of the old Tivo. You know-the company that actually cared about it's subscribers.
You do know that "capacitor plague" hit almost the entire consumer electronics industry and not just TiVo, right?

And wasn't discovered until there were millions of bogus caps in the pipeline?
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 11:39 PM   #92
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjackson View Post
I checked the Beta Tester brushes and found it helpful for my research works.
spammer in waiting
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 11:30 AM   #93
crazee8
Registered User
 
crazee8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
You do know that "capacitor plague" hit almost the entire consumer electronics industry and not just TiVo, right?

And wasn't discovered until there were millions of bogus caps in the pipeline?
Just curious, if you care to comment on it, what was the time frame these capacitors hit the market and what other types of electronics could these capacitors be on?
crazee8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2012, 11:47 AM   #94
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazee8 View Post
Just curious, if you care to comment on it, what was the time frame these capacitors hit the market and what other types of electronics could these capacitors be on?
I recommend the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague".

I had a perfectly good Abit BX-6 (Pentium II/Celeron Slot 1) motherboard (which model was first released in mid-1998) I picked up used in late 2000 which fell victim.

Of course I didn't know that was the problem at the time, so I wasted a lot of time and energy.

I've had a few other motherboards with the same problem.

The LCD monitor in front of me I grabbed out of someone's front yard where they'd left it for the garbageman.

Bad caps in the power supply, one cap kit from lcdalternatives later, and I've got an HPvs17e for under $20.

Single layer boards, like LCD monitor/TV power supplies and TiVo power supplies, are easier to unsolder the bad caps and solder in the good ones than through holes on multilayer boards like computer motherboards.

Anything that uses electrolytic capacitors is probably at risk if made from the mid '90s on, although it's the ones subject to the most stress, like in switching power supplies or CPU power converters on motherboards, that are most likely to give the most trouble.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 01:34 AM   #95
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,611
Technically, these days, it's not really capacitor plague - that was just a bunch of caps from a chinese company who tried to steal the formula of the electrolyte (the capacitors work because one of the plates has a very thin oxide layer - the other plate couples to the oxide layer through the electrolyte). I believe it really ended in the early 2000s or so.

Doesn't mean they don't fail - they are the worst components ever aside from mechanical ones. They's so bad, you're looking at tolerance (how close they meet their specified capacitance) of +50/-20%. And those cheap chinese caps? They're in business making caps still - companies like CapXon ("CrapXon") and the like. They're not as short-lived as they were with the poorly stolen formula, but they aren't as high quality as good quality Japanese ones are. They still do dry out and are equally questionable after a few years (they're normally rated for 2000 hours at rated temperature, and their life doubles with every 10C lower they're operated at).

Of course, cheap caps don't last as long and fade from usefulness far quicker than if they used those Nippon Chemi-Con or Panasonic or RubyCon style caps. Usually what happens is they lose their ESR - switching supplies require "low ESR" caps to operate and often the cheap ones have ESRs that go out of spec wildly (easily 10x - when they're supposed to have under an 10 ohms, they can easily end up over 200+ohms).

Unless TiVo's using NOS problem caps (most likely not - these things don't usually sit around), these failures are really due to the cheap caps failing because they're lousy parts.
Worf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 04:52 AM   #96
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Technically, these days, it's not really capacitor plague - that was just a bunch of caps from a chinese company who tried to steal the formula of the electrolyte (the capacitors work because one of the plates has a very thin oxide layer - the other plate couples to the oxide layer through the electrolyte). I believe it really ended in the early 2000s or so.

Doesn't mean they don't fail - they are the worst components ever aside from mechanical ones. They's so bad, you're looking at tolerance (how close they meet their specified capacitance) of +50/-20%. And those cheap chinese caps? They're in business making caps still - companies like CapXon ("CrapXon") and the like. They're not as short-lived as they were with the poorly stolen formula, but they aren't as high quality as good quality Japanese ones are. They still do dry out and are equally questionable after a few years (they're normally rated for 2000 hours at rated temperature, and their life doubles with every 10C lower they're operated at).

Of course, cheap caps don't last as long and fade from usefulness far quicker than if they used those Nippon Chemi-Con or Panasonic or RubyCon style caps. Usually what happens is they lose their ESR - switching supplies require "low ESR" caps to operate and often the cheap ones have ESRs that go out of spec wildly (easily 10x - when they're supposed to have under an 10 ohms, they can easily end up over 200+ohms).

Unless TiVo's using NOS problem caps (most likely not - these things don't usually sit around), these failures are really due to the cheap caps failing because they're lousy parts.
We're talking about Series 2 and Series 3 power supplies, so it's a case of what TiVo's SUB-CONTRACTORS, who made the power supplies for them, WERE using, so it all took place after 2000, maybe 2002 to 2008, roughly.

Supposedly the incomplete formula was used at least as recently as 2007.

Also, the possibility of counterfeit capacitors exists. Anyone can print up a wrapper.

Interestingly enough, the only CapXon caps I've seen in TiVo supplies have been in the S2 DT supply, the 649 models, and that's the only S2 I have not heard of having power supply problems.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 09:43 AM   #97
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
Did you, Mike, ever solve your reboot problem? Mine is starting to do it also but only occasionally so far. I'm running kickstart 54 as i type this. Your experience would be helpful, that is if you've learned anything other than what you've already posted here. Thanks
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 11:29 AM   #98
loubob57
Cancer sucks!
 
loubob57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 24,179
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Interestingly enough, the only CapXon caps I've seen in TiVo supplies have been in the S2 DT supply, the 649 models, and that's the only S2 I have not heard of having power supply problems.
I just replaced 10 caps in my OLED S3 yesterday. This S3 was ordered the day the S3 went on sale in 2006. Of the 10 replaced caps 4 of them were CapXon brand. The one bulging cap was one of those. I replaced another bad one 6 months ago and I'm certain that it was also a CapXon brand cap. So half the caps in my S3 were CapXon brand. The other caps were Ost brand, which are apparently also known to go bad.
__________________
Well boys, I reckon this is it: nuclear combat, toe to toe with the Russkies.
loubob57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #99
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
My HDTCD652160 has been rebooting on it's own. I ran a "kickstart 54" with no error messages. I then opened it up and found 2 bulging disc which are shown in the attachment here. My questions to all you helpful folks are, where would I get those two capacitors and what would I ask for when I did find a place to get them. I will attempt to fix myself if it's not too complicated, which it doesn't appear to be, however I have no idea where to get them and what they are called. Or should I just buy a new power supply. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tivo pwr supply.jpg (55.5 KB, 37 views)
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #100
loubob57
Cancer sucks!
 
loubob57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 24,179
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
My HDTCD652160 has been rebooting on it's own. I ran a "kickstart 54" with no error messages. I then opened it up and found 2 bulging disc which are shown in the attachment here. My questions to all you helpful folks are, where would I get those two capacitors and what would I ask for when I did find a place to get them. I will attempt to fix myself if it's not too complicated, which it doesn't appear to be, however I have no idea where to get them and what they are called. Or should I just buy a new power supply. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks
That looks like the same power supply in my S3. There are a couple of lists of capacitors in this thread.
__________________
Well boys, I reckon this is it: nuclear combat, toe to toe with the Russkies.
loubob57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 02:31 PM   #101
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
My HDTCD652160 has been rebooting on it's own. I ran a "kickstart 54" with no error messages. I then opened it up and found 2 bulging disc which are shown in the attachment here. My questions to all you helpful folks are, where would I get those two capacitors and what would I ask for when I did find a place to get them. I will attempt to fix myself if it's not too complicated, which it doesn't appear to be, however I have no idea where to get them and what they are called. Or should I just buy a new power supply. Any and all advice welcome. Thanks
They're probably 3300uF (microFarad) and rated at 10 Volts, and are in parallel across the +5V output.

Go read the thread loubob57 linked to, and any threads linked to in that thread.

Somewhere you should come across what I say about Low ESR, high temp, and don't look for them at Radio Shack.

Are you anywhere near Raleigh, NC? I gotta guy up there sells 'em.

If you replace both of them and the ones on the +12 V output as well, that's maybe $10 in parts total, not counting shipping if you mail order.

As un-soldering and resoldering jobs go, it's fairly simple, but you'll need a heavy enough wattage iron or gun to overcome the heat dissipating properties of the big areas of copper on the bottom of the board to which the capacitors leads are soldered.

In addition to the obvious screws (for which you'll need the same #10 Torx bit you need to open the case) on the inside of the chassis holding the power supply board down, there's a small dark screw that goes into the plasic of the AC input socket from the outside, just above the actual pins, and you'll need a slightly smaller Torx bit for it, maybe a #8 or #9.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #102
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
Thanks so much for your time. Now I just have
To look up what you guys suggested and then pull it off. I new
Power supply is kind of expensive.
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:05 PM   #103
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
Thanks so much for your time. Now I just have
To look up what you guys suggested and then pull it off. I new
Power supply is kind of expensive.
Which is why it's better to repair it yourself or maybe even get it repaired locally if there's a good shop nearby.

What part of the country are you in?
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:13 PM   #104
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
If I pull one out will it tell me exactly which one it is? Or do
I have to interpret based on the dimensions
Given in the links?
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #105
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
I'm in the Detroit area. What kind of shop are you talking about, tv repair?
The soldering sounds a little more involved that I'm used to.
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:38 PM   #106
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
You mention that I should just replace the ones
On the 12 v side as well but when I went to the
Links I didn't see anything referring to 12 v. However
If I just order all the ones listed in the links, will I get
All I need if I choose to replace all as was also suggested?
Thanks
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:10 PM   #107
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
If I pull one out will it tell me exactly which one it is? Or do
I have to interpret based on the dimensions
Given in the links?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
I'm in the Detroit area. What kind of shop are you talking about, tv repair?
The soldering sounds a little more involved that I'm used to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
You mention that I should just replace the ones
On the 12 v side as well but when I went to the
Links I didn't see anything referring to 12 v. However
If I just order all the ones listed in the links, will I get
All I need if I choose to replace all as was also suggested?
Thanks

Yes, a TV repair shop, perhaps preferably a "mom and pop" type operation where there's not a lot of corporate structure to get in the way of dealing directly with whoever is going to actually do the work.

I don't know what labor rates run up there, but if you find someone you can directly work a deal with, maybe you can take the board out of the TiVo and just carry it in and get the caps swapped out for good ones real quick and comparatively cheaply.

Ask him (or who knows, maybe her) if the two bulging ones aren't indeed paralleled across the 5V out and there should be one or two on the 12 V line as well and you might as well replace them now and not have to worry about them later.

Those (the ones on the 5 and 12 outs) are the ones most famous for failing.

Or maybe a stereo repair place, but one that actually does board level repairs, not just some car stereo installer.

Exactly what kind of soldering have you done, with what kind of equipment?

Figuring out which capacitors are part of which circuit when you don't have any service literature is done by knowing enough about electronics to start with the yellow wires (12 V) or the red wires (5 V) and work your way backwards looking at the various copper traces, or "lands" on the bottom of the power supply's circuit board.

If you're looking for a shop to do it instead of yourself, tell them you've got a switching power supply with capacitor plague and you were told to make sure they knew the importance of using 105 degree Low ESR replacements by someone who knows more about these things than you do.

If they give any indication that they think any old replacement capacitor will do, you're in the wrong place.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 05:25 PM   #108
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
You obviously know what you're doing, how much
Would you charge if I shipped to you. Assuming your answer
Will be, " if I do it for you I'd have to do it for the
Dozens of others too", I still appreciate your time
And knowledge. All the ones listed in those links, are they
All the ones I need?
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #109
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
You obviously know what you're doing, how much
Would you charge if I shipped to you. Assuming your answer
Will be, " if I do it for you I'd have to do it for the
Dozens of others too", I still appreciate your time
And knowledge. All the ones listed in those links, are they
All the ones I need?
Knowing what I'm doing is not the same as being in a position to guarantee my work long distance.

I suppose the post office could deliver just the power supply by itself for about $10-$15 each way, plus another $10 worth of caps, and we're getting near the cost of getting it done locally even if I donate my time.

Let me check with the guy in Durham to see if he got the guy in Raleigh to fix his and how that worked out and maybe I'll have somebody I'll feel comfortable referring you to.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:18 AM   #110
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
Thank you!
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #111
Golfsferr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 27
I found a great priced power supply on eBay and it appears to be in great shape. So I took the plunge. Thanks for your help though.
Golfsferr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 02:05 AM   #112
George Cifranci
Viva La Tivo!
 
George Cifranci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Posts: 676
Add me to the list I guess. :-(

Lately I will be watching a recorded show and it will totally freeze up. After a short time the TiVo will reboot. One time I rewatched that same recorded show and it froze up at the same place. I suspect it might be one of my 2 hard drives. I guess I will have to open it up and check the PSU as well. I have an original Series 3 (with the OLED display) that I bought in late Dec 2006 and when I got it I immediately replaced the 250GB drive that came with the S3 with a 750GB Seagate DB35 that I had bought from Weaknees (in fact the UPS guy delivered them both at the same time which was nice). Later I added an external drive with another 750GB Seagate DB35. I might just let it go for now and see if it keeps happening. Those drives have been running pretty much non-stop for 6 years now. It would be nice to replace them with a single 2TB. Is there a way to move everything from my two 750GB drives to a single 2TB drive?
__________________
George

TiVo S3 - (12-20-06) 318HR HD (2TB)
TiVo S2 - (06-16-04) 329HR SD (retired)
TiVo S1 - (10-03-01) 60HR SD (retired)
TV: Sony SXRD R60XBR1 HDTV
George Cifranci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 09:07 AM   #113
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,845
Since you're in Columbus, OH, I'm betting you are on TWC, right? Which means all your recordings other than cable copies of local broadcast stations are copy protected and cannot TTG to your PC, which is what you would have to do to save them. Even if possible it's a time-consuming process that takes a lot of drive space on your PC. With a good (hard-wired) network your S3 will transfer at a little more than 1 MB/sec and each file has to transfer twice (to/from your PC). So you can do the math. Of course if one of your current drives is failing, transfers will either fail or take longer as the drive has to retry the reads.
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 12:20 PM   #114
irepoder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfsferr View Post
I found a great priced power supply on eBay and it appears to be in great shape. So I took the plunge. Thanks for your help though.
I'll buy your old power supply. Drop me a note.
irepoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |