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Old 01-02-2013, 12:14 PM   #1
sknaf
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Only the bottom Left LED

I have 2 S3 (oled 648250B), one works, one not; both have lifetime.
I tried swapping the HD and PS, still only the single LED.


So guessing it's the last part, the motherboard.
Unless someone else has any other ideas ??

If I buy a ebay/craigslist S3 to swap parts can I retain my lifetime ?

TIA ...

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Old 01-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #2
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Lifetime is tied to the crypto chip on the motherboard. If you replace the motherboard, you will lose the lifetime service, unless you desolder the chip and move it to the replacement motherboard.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:52 PM   #3
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Have you considered that the front panel may be at fault?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:56 PM   #4
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@ThAbtO: Good point, I should have also mentioned nothing comes up on TV.

@Arcady: I can do soldering. Which one is the crypto chip ?

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Have you considered that the front panel may be at fault?

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Old 01-03-2013, 12:33 AM   #5
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Where's lrhorer when you need him?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:56 AM   #6
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Good thing you have the OLED model. The Atmel AVR Type AT90SC6464C chip is the one you would need to swap. It is located right near the eeprom chip (with sticker that has CBOM and 3.16 on it) towards the rear of the HDD assembly, next to the cable card slots and CMOS battery.

Some other suggestion of moving the Atmel chip:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...79#post8909479
and http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...34#post9404234
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:18 AM   #7
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Have you checked the capacitors? The S3 has a history of bad caps.

Check out this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...bad+capacitors
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:21 AM   #8
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He did say that he swapped power supplies and hard drives with his working one so seems unlikely that a power supply working in one would not work on the other even if it had marginal capacitors but he should check just in any case.

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Old 01-03-2013, 11:15 AM   #9
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Hmm, I know the S3 OLED and earlier had the TSN on the crypto chip, but where is it stored in newer boxes? It has to be somewhere, right?
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:35 PM   #10
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@Blahman: This is the one you are talking about - u6, correct ?


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Old 01-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
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@Blahman: This is the one you are talking about - u6, correct ?


~Knaf
nope, it's U16, notice the part number matches what he posted..
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:05 PM   #12
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@Arcady, Starting with the TCD652160 (Series 3 HD) and beyond the TSN is on die of the CPU. Before that the TSN was stored in a separate atmel chip, depending on if it was an S1, S2, DTiVo, Or S3 OLED 9TCD648250B) the chip will either be part AT90SC3232C or AT90SC6464C. Series 3 HD, HDXL, and Series 4 (Premiere) all have the TSN on die of CPU.

@sknaf, As dianebrat already pointed out, U16 is the AT90SC6464C that holds the TSN. U6 is the prom chip which I mentioned it being near.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:27 AM   #13
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So, could the CPU be moved to a new board? I'm not sure how it as attached, probably a BGA or some other evil thing. Might be easier to move new components to a failed board in that case. Would it really destroy TiVo's business model to put the chip in a socket?
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #14
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Arcady, yes, if you can find someone with the proper equipment to remove, reball, and set BGA components you could in theory move the CPU to a new motherboard. It would be similar to what some people do for repairing Xbox 360s when they wanted to preserve a CPU for which the key was known (before other hacks made the value there drop dramatically). As to socketing the chip, I don't think they've ever had the atmel socketed (I know on some the prom was). That is the gamble taken with lifetime, that the unit can be kept going longer than the benefit of lifetime. The systems where the TSN was in a separate chip just made that process a bit easier. Newer systems with the TSN on die of the CPU just make things harder to maintain for long life cycles.

Although, it has been a long time since I tried, it used to be that is you swapped on the web page the TSN of the same exact model (example TCD652160 for TCD652160) it would move the lifetime. I've not had to do that in a while as I've been happily keeping my S3s going and have recently invested in a few parts systems to have on hand for potential failures.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknaf View Post
@ThAbtO: Good point, I should have also mentioned nothing comes up on TV.

@Arcady: I can do soldering. Which one is the crypto chip ?
I can do soldering as well, I've been at it for about a half a century now.

But moving a crypto chip is closer to surgery, in that you need special equipment and should practice on something dead and disposable first and only do it as a last resort.

If you have to do it, I can advise you on how, but let's try everything else first.

What happens on screen, via the yellow composite video cable, when you plug the "bad" unit into the wall socket?
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #16
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