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Old 12-03-2012, 11:26 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by vurbano View Post
who makes these asinine decisions to only support Iphones and Ipads? Is tivo trying to put themselves out of business? First the do not build the ability to stream into the boxes themselves making you buy a silly add on streaming box and then they restrict streaming to a tiny share of the market?
Tiny share? Do you actually believe this? I don't understand why people who hate Apple need to be in denial about how popular they are. You don't have to like them but other people do.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:58 AM   #122
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First the do not build the ability to stream into the boxes themselves making you buy a silly add on streaming box...
And if anyone thinks the $130 add-on is a silly thing now, the technology to do what the Stream does was not possible at reasonable consumer-level pricing 3 years ago. It would have added a lot more than that to the price of the Premiere if it were incorporated into the box.

Further, the Tivo app didn't exist yet and the iPad only first debuted about a month prior to the Premiere. So the primary market for the Stream literally didn't exist yet either. So why would they have incorporated it?

It'll be incorporated into the next generation hardware. By releasing an accessory for current hardware now rather than mandating an upgrade a year from now for people to complain about, they're a year ahead of most of their competition.

Talk about first world problems. This dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.

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Old 12-04-2012, 07:36 AM   #123
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Tiny share? Do you actually believe this? I don't understand why people who hate Apple need to be in denial about how popular they are. You don't have to like them but other people do.
I dont hate apple Sparky, Infact I own an ipad2 and love it. But you are ignoring reality and math.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #124
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Further, the Tivo app didn't exist yet and the iPad only first debuted about a month prior to the Premiere. So the primary market for the Stream literally didn't exist yet either. So why would they have incorporated it?

I'm not sure why, but I'm back in this thread...

I think the decision to go iOS only was the poor decision. Even if Tivo's 2009 era research showing that their current Tivo+Android users spend less and expected future Tivo+Android users would also spend less (ouiji board research?), the decision to not include streaming to a larger overall platform like web browser based streaming is confusing. I read that only about 12% of U.S. households own a tablet, and of the total iPads sold the U.S. has 20-30 million. Not bad. However, compare that to 200million+ personal computers owned in the U.S. Granted, not all of those would be able to use a Tivo Stream via browser, but the option would be there for current and potential customers to take advantage of Tivo Stream. To survive and thrive, Tivo needs to keep the customers it has and to expand.

As a comparison, Simple.tv allows streaming to Roku, iPad, or web browser. Sure there is no Android support yet (coming eventually), but there are at least a couple options for non-Apple devotees.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #125
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They aren't going iOS only. They went iOS first.

If the decision was to put it out in September with iOS only, or wait 6 months and have it for both platforms, then I think they made the obvious and easy choice.

We're going around in circles.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by mr_smits View Post
I'm not sure why, but I'm back in this thread...

I think the decision to go iOS only was the poor decision. Even if Tivo's 2009 era research showing that their current Tivo+Android users spend less and expected future Tivo+Android users would also spend less (ouiji board research?), the decision to not include streaming to a larger overall platform like web browser based streaming is confusing. I read that only about 12% of U.S. households own a tablet, and of the total iPads sold the U.S. has 20-30 million. Not bad. However, compare that to 200million+ personal computers owned in the U.S. Granted, not all of those would be able to use a Tivo Stream via browser, but the option would be there for current and potential customers to take advantage of Tivo Stream. To survive and thrive, Tivo needs to keep the customers it has and to expand.

As a comparison, Simple.tv allows streaming to Roku, iPad, or web browser. Sure there is no Android support yet (coming eventually), but there are at least a couple options for non-Apple devotees.
I don't believe Tivo's decision is to go iOS-only. An android app exists, and Stream support is coming with a future update. But I agree that Tivo should bring streaming and apps to more platforms. They should definitely redo their Windows app and start fresh there too, as well as other platforms.

They've been developing cloud services as well. In a perfect world, they'll be more platform-agnostic where it doesn't matter what device it's accessed from.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #127
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who makes these asinine decisions to only support Iphones and Ipads? ...tiny share of the market?
Nothing personal, but if you are going to call someone asinine, make sure you have your facts straight.

I'm sure the decision was based on revenue, and it was the right decision. The primary target is tablets, not phones.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:12 PM   #128
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I dont hate apple Sparky, Infact I own an ipad2 and love it. But you are ignoring reality and math.
No, you are.. (Yes, I meant that to sound that way.)

Fragmentation abounds..

http://developer.android.com/about/d...rds/index.html
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:52 PM   #129
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They aren't going iOS only. They went iOS first.
Until Tivo Stream supports any other platform besides iOS, it is iOS only. Future promises of support for other platforms is nice in theory but really is meaningless vaporware.

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If the decision was to put it out in September with iOS only, or wait 6 months and have it for both platforms, then I think they made the obvious and easy choice.
The series of earlier decisions that led to Tivo having to make that choice is the problem. To me, that is a leadership failure, really. If Android support really is so much more difficult then at least web browser support should have been available at launch. Imagine the wide appeal. With Tivo Stream browser support, any home networked computer becomes a Tivo device. Take a quick break at your computer and watch that recorded show. Stream the local news to your laptop while working on the back patio. I'd buy a Stream.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:18 PM   #130
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The Stream is a first generation product. The initial development was likely just to see if they could get it to work and if it would sell. If it's successful then I'm sure they'll invest in supporting it on every platform they can. The method they use for Streaming, HLS, is an open standard so it can be supported on almost any device. It's all just a matter of writing the app.

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Old 12-26-2012, 02:43 PM   #131
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754182

Reading this article made me think of this thread. I'm sure the same challenges they encountered are being encountered by the TiVo Stream developers.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:35 PM   #132
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Yeah, people forget that android is far more splintered. Apple has a pretty simplistic set of devices, so doing the QA on apps should be a lot easier. Imagine trying to do just the Samsung phones, let alone all of the other devices.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:30 AM   #133
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Like most developers, they would pick a core group of hardware and OS revision to begin support on, get that working and release it. Add devices via patches and updates as they go and release to additional devices as can. You have to start somewhere....or in Tivo's case, perhaps not.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:54 PM   #134
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True, the idea is that you come up with something that works for 90% of the users and then anger the 10%, and work towards closing the gap. But, if the number of use cases (ie. devices and OS revs) is very large, then you have a massive matrix and you can't get to the 90%.

To support on iOS you can say Iphone 4, 4S and 5 with iOS 5 and 6. That is 6 use cases. For Ipad you can say Ipad 1 with iOS 5 (6 is not supported), 2 and 3 with iOS 5 and 6 and mini with iOS6 (5 is not supported). That is another 6 use cases. So roughly 12 cases for 95% of the apple customers. Yes, you could argue the 3GS/3G/3 (which they may support) but that isn't a huge departure.

Now, Just looking at Samsung, I see 5 different (current) android offerings. Not to mention what was offered last year, not to mention their tablets. Multiply that by all of the supported Android versions and you have a huge matrix. For Samsung alone. What about all of the other Andriod units.

A fragmented market is your worst enemy. I used to be in product development and when you had to make sure that your chip worked in everyone's platforms it was a major pain. People would ask why we couldn't get products to market quicker and the answer was always features, price, performance, pick any two. Unfortunately the market it driving the price, so you are trading off schedule or features (I count device support in features). So, do you choose to trade off schedule or other features in order to get it to android on time, or do you lag the android support in order to get it onto the market with the widest addressable base (it is targeted at tablets, not phones) or do you wait.

In my mind they did the smart thing - go after apple first, because it is easy, establish the market, then bring it out on android. If the target was phones and not tablets the choice would have been harder and they might have decided to do it the other way.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:04 PM   #135
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20754182

Reading this article made me think of this thread. I'm sure the same challenges they encountered are being encountered by the TiVo Stream developers.
Interesting article. I'm not sure why it is surprising that it is more difficult to develop for Android considering the entire ecosystem takes the opposite approach that iOS does. I suppose that they now know to build in a bit more time for Android development - at least for the next year or two as Gingerbread loses marketshare.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #136
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Well it's 2013 now. is there any new word on when the stream is coming to android? i would have purchased one months ago if there was Android support. Although at this point I'll take the release of the Mini over Android support for the Stream.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:08 PM   #137
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TiVo is probably busy gearing up for CES next week. We probably wont hear anything until after the show.

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Old 01-03-2013, 03:42 PM   #138
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Maybe at the show ?

( she asked hopefully)

I'm really regretting giving my son an ipad mini for Christmas, in other words, I wish i had kept it for myself.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #139
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Well it's 2013 now. is there any new word on when the stream is coming to android? i would have purchased one months ago if there was Android support. Although at this point I'll take the release of the Mini over Android support for the Stream.
I wouldnt count on it anytime soon, TiVos official android app doesn't even work on jelly bean. I got a nexus 7 months ago and still waiting for it to work. I check every week in the play store and it still says that it doesn't work on jelly bean.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:59 PM   #140
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Follow the money (fear)

I would imagine that I'll be accused of starting a "conspiracy theory" but here is my best guess at why we don't have streaming on Android:

Money. ---> Fear

Explanation:

With iOS, locking down HD video out over HDMI out is controlled by Apple - done deal...

With Android, this is not so easy to do, as there are way too many paths that can end up with TiVo Stream reaching a TV that has no Tivo . This translates to lost revenue, and that is, as we C++ programmers say - ++ungood.

If, and only if, TiVo figures out how to lock down video out over HDMI for *all* Android devices, then we will see streaming support on Android released.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #141
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Maybe too much of a conspiracy theory. However revenue > all else. When you can do something with apple and have total control, you have a lower cost. Doing things on android are more complicated and there is greater odds of someone getting around the system. I.e. lawsuits.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #142
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I wonder if you could install the apple app on a jailbroken apple tv and stream it that way?
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:58 PM   #143
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Maybe too much of a conspiracy theory. However revenue > all else. When you can do something with apple and have total control, you have a lower cost. Doing things on android are more complicated and there is greater odds of someone getting around the system. I.e. lawsuits.
Actually there is a technological issue as well. TiVo uses encrypted HLS for streaming. Apple invented the protocol so they support it on all their devices. However Android didn't add support until 4.0 (aka Ice Cream Sandwich). And until recently very few tablets existed that used Android 4.0+. So it makes sense that TiVo would wait for greater market penetration of 4.0+ before dedicating resources to an Android app.

Increased sales of the Kindle Fire HD and Nexus line of tablets, both of which run 4.0+, is what likely motivated TiVo to finally start working on an Android app for the Stream. However they had a good 6 month head start on the iOS app so it could still be a few months before we see the Android app released.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:58 PM   #144
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TiVo will eventually add a Windows 8 app, which would then support most laptops either directly or via dual boot (i.e. bootcamp) or VM setups.

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I love my tivo, and they piss me off so much at the same time. Slingbox lets you watch from mac, pc, android, iphone, ipad, android pad. Tivo is so dumb for not including pc, and mac. Guess i'll stick with my tivo HD until they allow PC viewing or my tivo HD dies. Slave to the tivo......
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:28 PM   #145
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While it's taken longer then I expected I still think we'll see something in the next year. TiVo showed a product at the cable show that was basically the entire TiVo UI, complete with playback, running in a web browser. It was for some Charter CloudTV thing, but if they release something similar to the public then we could see streaming supported on any device with a web browser.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #146
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All the android fanboys keep chastizing Tivo for supporting Apple iOS first.
Well, follow the money. It just makes good business sense and enabled faster time to market. Alternatively follow the rule of diminishing returns when you consider the fragmentation and support compexity of the android universe.

In other words, if you are a general fighting a war, and you have only 1 bomb to drop across enemy lines, do you drop the 1 bomb you have where you are assured to kill 1,000,000 enemy soldiers, or do you drop the bomb where you have a 30% chance of killing 1,200,000 enemy soldiers? You make the decision.

Anyhow, I am sure eventually Tivo will release an Android app which I hopefully can use on my moto razor phone, since I dont have any Apple tablets nor phones.....
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:29 AM   #147
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All the android fanboys keep chastizing Tivo for supporting Apple iOS first.
Well, follow the money. It just makes good business sense and enabled faster time to market. Alternatively follow the rule of diminishing returns when you consider the fragmentation and support compexity of the android universe.

In other words, if you are a general fighting a war, and you have only 1 bomb to drop across enemy lines, do you drop the 1 bomb you have where you are assured to kill 1,000,000 enemy soldiers, or do you drop the bomb where you have a 30% chance of killing 1,200,000 enemy soldiers? You make the decision.
I'm saying this as a long-time Tivo customer, as a former Tivo investor, and as a technology fan. For me, it's more about Tivo's poor leadership and the inability to regain the position as market leader or innovator in the DVR space. Someone in the Tivo chain of command screwed up by downplaying Android and web browser support this long. At least one of those platforms should have been available at Stream launch so that even if you aren't an iOS owner, you could use your computer browser to Stream to your laptop or desktop. Don't roll out a product that is completely unavailable to a huge portion of potential customers. With different leadership, Tivo would have been trail blazing with the Roamio line rather than playing much needed catch-up. It's embarrassing. Even startup Aereo is rumored to have their Android client available this month - they already have web browser support.

First, let me say that it has gotten better if and when the promised features "coming soon!" with Roamio line and Mini are eventually delivered, then Tivo will be about tied with the DISH Hopper and Joey product that has Slingbox capability. That means I will be buying a Roamio and Minis to replace my Premieres.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:13 PM   #148
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All the android fanboys keep chastizing Tivo for supporting Apple iOS first.
Well, follow the money. It just makes good business sense and enabled faster time to market. Alternatively follow the rule of diminishing returns when you consider the fragmentation and support compexity of the android universe.

In other words, if you are a general fighting a war, and you have only 1 bomb to drop across enemy lines, do you drop the 1 bomb you have where you are assured to kill 1,000,000 enemy soldiers, or do you drop the bomb where you have a 30% chance of killing 1,200,000 enemy soldiers? You make the decision.

Anyhow, I am sure eventually Tivo will release an Android app which I hopefully can use on my moto razor phone, since I dont have any Apple tablets nor phones.....

Virtually no one is chastising TiVo for supporting iOS first.

Read the thread, read what people are saying, and respond to what people are saying. Don't respond to what you wish people were saying so you could post your inanity.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:03 PM   #149
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Does anyone know if the stream when being viewed off an iOS device can be used with air play?
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:52 PM   #150
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Does anyone know if the stream when being viewed off an iOS device can be used with air play?
Not without jailbreaking.
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