TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Underground Playground > TiVo Upgrade Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-26-2012, 01:04 PM   #1861
TheNumberSix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nowhere special
Posts: 151
Hi everyone.

I have a question and wanted to check with your collected wisdom.

I have some Tivo HDs and a Series3. (I know this is the Premier thread.) My backup strategy was always to have an expanded drive in each one. Then every six months or so I would take out the drive, back it up with WinMFS, run a disk utility (Spinrite 6), then reinstall it. While the backup and Spinrite was running, I would have the original drive installed for a week or two.

This scheme seemed to work well.

Now I have a Premier 4 on the way and I understand that WinMFS or any other tool cannot back up the drive image. All I can do is clone it.

So what I'm thinking is this. It comes with a 500GB drive, which is plenty big for me. I don't need to expand it. I will crack the case and look at whichever drive it is and I will try to buy another one, as close as possible to it. (Same vendor and size) Then every six months, I will clone the drive to the other and just swap it out.

Does this seem like a reasonable strategy? My concern is keeping high uptime in case of a problem. This way I just can swap out the drive and carry on.

A potential problem I see with this approach is that I bet there will be some few bytes difference in between the drive sizes. Will that screw it up?

Also, I can try to use JMFS, but I also have a fully functioning Gentoo Linux box. Would it be easier to just to do a dd command?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
TheNumberSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 08:16 PM   #1862
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNumberSix View Post
Hi everyone.

I have a question and wanted to check with your collected wisdom.

I have some Tivo HDs and a Series3. (I know this is the Premier thread.) My backup strategy was always to have an expanded drive in each one. Then every six months or so I would take out the drive, back it up with WinMFS, run a disk utility (Spinrite 6), then reinstall it. While the backup and Spinrite was running, I would have the original drive installed for a week or two.

This scheme seemed to work well.

Now I have a Premier 4 on the way and I understand that WinMFS or any other tool cannot back up the drive image. All I can do is clone it.

So what I'm thinking is this. It comes with a 500GB drive, which is plenty big for me. I don't need to expand it. I will crack the case and look at whichever drive it is and I will try to buy another one, as close as possible to it. (Same vendor and size) Then every six months, I will clone the drive to the other and just swap it out.

Does this seem like a reasonable strategy? My concern is keeping high uptime in case of a problem. This way I just can swap out the drive and carry on.

A potential problem I see with this approach is that I bet there will be some few bytes difference in between the drive sizes. Will that screw it up?

Also, I can try to use JMFS, but I also have a fully functioning Gentoo Linux box. Would it be easier to just to do a dd command?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Just get a bigger drive and when you make the copy do not expand the image, than you can keep going back and forth without problems, does seem a bit much for a drive that will most likely last you 4 or more years.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 05:57 AM   #1863
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,335
Wd Av-gp Wd20eurs 2tb - $99.99

Western Digital WD AV-GP WD20EURS 2TB - $99.99

Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-TB-Ha...dp/B0042AG9V8/
Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136783
__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 03:28 PM   #1864
Arcady
Stargate Fan
 
Arcady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,894
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I don't know what model drive they put in the Elite (I assume it's also a 2TB?), but as long as its LBA number is the same or slightly smaller than that of the EURS, ...
It turned out my original Elite had the same drive in it, a WD 20EURS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
It will take several hours.
I hooked both drives to SATA ports and booted the jmfs disk from a CD drive on USB. I don't know if my SATA ports are just really slow, but it took about 16 hours to copy the entire 2TB drive.

It is working now. Thanks to all for the assistance.
__________________
Roamio Pro (3TB)
Premiere Elite (2TB)
Premiere (320GB)
Two TiVo Minis

Left DirecTV 4/15/07. Left TWC 8/8/11. Now on Comcast Xfinity.
Arcady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 03:35 PM   #1865
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
It turned out my original Elite had the same drive in it, a WD 20EURS.



I hooked both drives to SATA ports and booted the jmfs disk from a CD drive on USB. I don't know if my SATA ports are just really slow, but it took about 16 hours to copy the entire 2TB drive.

It is working now. Thanks to all for the assistance.
Thanks for the data points.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 10:18 AM   #1866
trusted-1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1
Premiere Upgrade via Parallels 7 Virtual Machine on Mac OSX 10.6.8

In case anyone wants to know:

The premiere_linux_inc_supersize_jmfs-rev104.iso imported easily into Parallels to create & run a virtual machine and worked well to create a copy, expand and supersize a Premiere 320gb image to a 1.5TB WD15EARS drive.

The transfer was 10800 kpbs average done on a couple of USB to SATA adapters.

The 2nd one I tried failed with a write error but the 1.5TB drives were not new so I suspect this is an issue with the drive not the Virtual Machine.

I am running an extended test on the drive to see if it needs an RMA prior to the next attempt.
__________________
Best Regards,
Trusted-1
trusted-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:37 PM   #1867
socalhdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4
Question WD AV-GP WD20EURS + wdidle3

Hi! About to jump in and do the upgrade.

With the 20EURS model, do I have to perform the wdidle3 alchemy? Or with the EURS, am I good right out of the box?

Thanks so much!

Last edited by socalhdtv : 12-21-2012 at 12:04 AM. Reason: typo
socalhdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 11:45 PM   #1868
ShinySteelRobot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalhdtv View Post
Hi! About to jump in and do the upgrade.

With the 20EURS model, do I have to perform the wdidle3 alchemy? Or with the ERUS, am I good right out of the box?

Thanks so much!
I can't remember if I had to change the idle on my EURS, but just to be safe you should use the wdidle3 command to set it to 300 seconds. Simply download and burn this ISO, boot from it, and then change the idle time.

I remember my EARX drive defaulted to 8 seconds, which would have made reboots fail.
ShinySteelRobot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:06 AM   #1869
socalhdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot View Post
I can't remember if I had to change the idle on my EURS, but just to be safe you should use the wdidle3 command to set it to 300 seconds. Simply download and burn this ISO, boot from it, and then change the idle time.

I remember my EARX drive defaulted to 8 seconds, which would have made reboots fail.
Thanks - I'm guessing that wdidle does NOT work on a Mac? I've never used the program.
socalhdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:10 AM   #1870
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
wdidle3 is also available on The Ultimate Boot CD.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:20 AM   #1871
socalhdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4
wdidle

Thanks!

The strange thing is the EURS is not even listed as a "supported" drive on the wdidle-download page. So I'm so confused if the drive needs to be "wdidle"d or not!
socalhdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:46 AM   #1872
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by socalhdtv View Post
Thanks!

The strange thing is the EURS is not even listed as a "supported" drive on the wdidle-download page. So I'm so confused if the drive needs to be "wdidle"d or not!
I recently put into service a EURS and a couple of EARX (wish they'd been EADS, but that's another rant for another time).

Can't remember which ones needed it, if any, but running it didn't break any of them--you just get a "this feature is not supported" type error message or it comes back saying it's disabled.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #1873
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
Just curious, is there a reason why people use the WD 20EURS drive? From what I read, you can use any newer SATA drive.
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 04:19 PM   #1874
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 739
Some drives are tuned for video use and others for computer use. Different parameters are adjusted to optimize drive noise, heat, streaming, etc. Some drives have issues with the Tivo OS like the WD20EURS which needs the idle head parking feature to be disabled to prevent issues locking up the system.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 05:04 PM   #1875
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,335
No, the WD20EURS does NOT need any tweaking. I have used that HDD several times for an upgrade as is, with no issues. The Premiere used to solely use WD AV-GP HDDs and the WD20EURS in the Elite.
__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #1876
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
The EURS, because of the way its error handling routine is optimized for A/V applications, isn't the right thing for anything else, but it is good for a TiVo, has a warranty at least as long if not longer than most everything else, and $100 is about the best price you're going to find on a 2TB drive.

It's only suitable for Series 3 and Series 4 TiVos, Series 1 and Series 2 units can, as far as is known, only use up to a 1TB drive, although since they're PATA/IDE, they can use 2 of them on the same data cable, unlike SATA drives.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 06:20 PM   #1877
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
And as soon as the sale at newegg ends the price at Amazon will go back up, so grab it now.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 06:31 PM   #1878
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
I just upgraded to a Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB Drive (ST32000641AS) Will this work fine or should I go buy the WD20EURS?

It seems to be working fine with no problems so far, however I just installed it today.
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:05 PM   #1879
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,335
If it's working fine I would leave it alone, the Seagate Barracuda is a 7200rpm Desktop HDD and will generate more heat than either a Seagate HD Pipeline or WD AV-GP, which are both 5900rpm HDDs and designed for continuous video recording, and low heat.

What was the original TiVo HDD you replaced?
__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:08 PM   #1880
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
320gb TiVo premiere. Do you think using this drive will be detrimental to the life span of the drive or the TiVo itself?
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:13 PM   #1881
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,335
What was the Make and Model# of the original 320GB?

WD AV-GP WD3200AVVS?
__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:14 PM   #1882
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
No, the WD20EURS does NOT need any tweaking. I have used that HDD several times for an upgrade as is, with no issues. The Premiere used to solely use WD AV-GP HDDs and the WD20EURS in the Elite.
Perhaps not. Many posts about the WD20EURS and disabling the head parking feature resolving some issues people were having with the drive,

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

Last edited by jmbach : 12-22-2012 at 07:20 PM.
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 09:17 PM   #1883
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
What was the Make and Model# of the original 320GB?

WD AV-GP WD3200AVVS?
The original drive is a Western Digital WD3200AVVS - Green Power
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 11:21 PM   #1884
socalhdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4
Thumbs up Post-install report - WD20EURS

Overall, a very good experience.

* 1st attempt at copying the original drive from the Premiere died part-way through.
* Then was a bit finicky in recognizing the drives.
* 2nd attempt went smoothly. Took about 3.5 hours over USB on an iMac.
* Reboot of TiVo went great. Using 11% or so of the new 2TB.

In my experience, the EURS did NOT need wdidle set-up.

Thanks all for the help!
socalhdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 12:14 AM   #1885
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
If it's working fine I would leave it alone, the Seagate Barracuda is a 7200rpm Desktop HDD and will generate more heat than either a Seagate HD Pipeline or WD AV-GP, which are both 5900rpm HDDs and designed for continuous video recording, and low heat.

What was the original TiVo HDD you replaced?
Been using it for a couple hours now and it seems to be working fine with no issues. If it were to give me problems, what should I look for? Given this is a 7200 RPM drive and will generate more heat, what are the drawbacks?

I used this drive because I had it at my disposal, I could buy the Western Digital 20EURS drive if I really need to. Since I am a N00B I don't know what I should do!
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:00 AM   #1886
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by DM3MD157 View Post
Been using it for a couple hours now and it seems to be working fine with no issues. If it were to give me problems, what should I look for? Given this is a 7200 RPM drive and will generate more heat, what are the drawbacks?

I used this drive because I had it at my disposal, I could buy the Western Digital 20EURS drive if I really need to. Since I am a N00B I don't know what I should do!
I have been using 7200 RPM drives for years without any problems, the advantage of the AV drives is the low error correction so one might expect to get less picture breakup over time, I have not ever noticed any problems with non AV drives, some have run for years.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 05:40 AM   #1887
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by DM3MD157 View Post
I used this drive because I had it at my disposal, I could buy the Western Digital 20EURS drive if I really need to. Since I am a N00B I don't know what I should do!
Was the HDD previously used in another device? How old is the HDD and did it already have many hours of use. If so, I would say to get a new WD20EURS. If it was relatively new and unused, I'd just stay with it. Watch the MBT: temp in System Info above ~50°C, I would be concerned.
__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #1888
DM3MD157
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoxInPHX View Post
Was the HDD previously used in another device? How old is the HDD and did it already have many hours of use. If so, I would say to get a new WD20EURS. If it was relatively new and unused, I'd just stay with it. Watch the MBT: temp in System Info above ~50°C, I would be concerned.
The hard drive had minimal use. I can keep an eye on the temps, is that info located in the system menu? Is the only risk of running this drive a HD failure? Or can it break the motherboard or power supply?
DM3MD157 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #1889
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by DM3MD157 View Post
The hard drive had minimal use. I can keep an eye on the temps, is that info located in the system menu? Is the only risk of running this drive a HD failure? Or can it break the motherboard or power supply?
The drive shouldn't damage either any more than any other drive, but if I were in your position, and had the extra $100 to spare (always a consideration), I'd get the EURS, do a byte for byte copy to it from the 2TB Seagate, and re-purpose the Seagate as a computer drive where you relocate the TiVo Desktop program's My TiVo Recordings folder after formatting that Seagate as one big NTFS partition.

That's assuming you have a Windows PC.

Otherwise, if you're a Mac person, I would think that you could put the drive in an external USB case, or in a NAS box, and still store copied TiVo shows on it (if not copyprotected by your cable company).

Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > System Information should show you the temp.

Just be careful when the Sys Info screen is showing if you have more than one TiVo (or have a Philips/Magnavox VCR or DirecTV receiver) in the house, as that's the screen that makes the TiVo vulnerable to a change of remote control address.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 03:26 AM   #1890
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by DM3MD157 View Post
I just upgraded to a Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB Drive (ST32000641AS) Will this work fine or should I go buy the WD20EURS?
FWIW, I have 3 of those drives in my desktop PC and they run at about 95F (35C). Cool, quiet, reliable.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |