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Old 12-20-2012, 01:12 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by tiams View Post
That warning doesn't even make sense. It is worded so it sounds like the show will contain graphic images BECAUSE of the CT tragedy.
Agreed. It sounds like they added the images.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:20 AM   #62
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I was disappointed. I think a good series finale could have been that scene, and Deb actually choosing to shoot Dexter, then holding him then roll credits.

This was so incredibly sloppy and rushed, even for this show, that it is a disappointment.

I still think Deb did choose to "poison" herself and that Hannah was playing her cards close b/c that's how she survives.

I'm sure I'll tune in next season, still kinda fun to watch, just not near the high caliber of TV that it once was.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:22 AM   #63
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I would have thought that LaGuerta would've automatically called for backup after getting the call from Estrada, and Dex should've taken that into account.
That's immediately what I thought, too. I think Dexter's whole plan at the end looked like amateur hour. Completely out-of-character for someone normally so fastidious with his planning and execution.
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With LaGuerta gone, will anyone recall the pending subpoena to collect Deb & Dexter's phone/GPS history?
It will be interesting to see, since the copy at LaGuerta's house certainly wasn't the only copy. There will be copies on file at the PD and probably at the court as well, so it's not like killing LaGuerta and shredding that warrant removes all evidence against Dexter and Deb.
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As an aside, I liked seeing Doakes again. He was my favorite supporting character of the series.
Totally agree with this. Doakes was a great character, and seeing him again in this episode reminded me how dynamic he was, and how wooden the majority of the supporting players are when compared to him.
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I still think Deb did choose to "poison" herself and that Hannah was playing her cards close b/c that's how she survives.
Even after Hannah admitted that she did it when Dexter went to the jail and questioned her about it?
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:32 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post

Even after Hannah admitted that she did it when Dexter went to the jail and questioned her about it?
I think they made her admission intentionally nebulous. I agree that yes, she gave the appearance of copping to the drugging. But she did it in a pretty passive manner, with about as much weight as "Yeah, sure, whatever".
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #65
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I think they made her admission intentionally nebulous. I agree that yes, she gave the appearance of copping to the drugging. But she did it in a pretty passive manner, with about as much weight as "Yeah, sure, whatever".
I don't agree, but I am not going to get my Bushmaster AR-15 and shoot you down over it either.

It is a possibility, but I think slim. As opposed to real hints that Deb could have poisoned herself, but which proved misleading.

I admit that I am the happy gullible puppy. I believe what they want me to believe till I am hit over the head with a 2 x 4.

Time will tell.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:07 PM   #66
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The subpena on the cell phone GPS records is a plot device. Tells us, and the characters, LaGuerta is on the right direction. That she'll have official proof in the near future. Dexter has to do something NOW.

Would it make posters happier if she said she ordered the Deb's official car GPS data from the archives? Was going to have Deb's car taken to the garage so the data on the onboard computer could be downloaded.? Saying she ordered the subpenas is a quicker and easier way of making the point.

Good chance Deb's cell phone is owned by Miami Metro and a subpena isn't required. If GPS cell records are being kept Miami Metro would have access without a needing a subpena and probably without even having to contact the phone company.

What will happen with the subpena. Whatever the writers want. Quinn, or someone else, will see it and run with it OR...Laguerta will be thought of as a mentally ill person who was going to kill Estrada and frame Dexter. The subpenas will go in the trash.

I know it's only fiction but it's amazing how much time is being spent trying to reopen a case which has been closed for more then 5 years and a case which was closed for what maybe a year.

A better question. How much of our GPS data does Google retain?

Last edited by lew : 12-20-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:51 PM   #67
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I think what happened in that conversation is that at first she was wondering if she could get away with denying it, so she played it cagey. Then she realized that Dexter was on to her and wasn't going to believe her if she lied, so she gave up and confessed.

I don't think there's meant to be any doubt that she did it. I really never did...if Deb did it, then she is the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of crime to pull off such an elaborate and dangerous hoax, allowing herself to be badly but not fatally injured. And Deb has never been any kind of genius. When she's good, it's because she has a hunch and just can't let go, not because she out-thinks everybody.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:23 PM   #68
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I really never did...if Deb did it, then she is the greatest criminal mastermind in the history of crime to pull off such an elaborate and dangerous hoax, allowing herself to be badly but not fatally injured.
That's a huge exaggeration. It would not be so difficult. Deb had the pills already. It had been mentioned in a previous episode that Hannah may have drugged someone to have a car accident, so Deb did not have to invent that idea. The drug was supposed to be concentrated enough to knock her out quickly. All she had to do was find a deserted road and drive slowly. The chances of survival would be pretty good if it was a level road with little but trees to hit (and she was wearing her seatbelt and the car had airbags). If she was smart enough, she could have even crashed it intentionally (get the car into position, take a big drink of water, then crash before the drug can knock her out).

As upset and obsessed a state of mind as Deb was in (she even said she would do anything), it is a risk she may have been willing to take.

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I think what happened in that conversation is that at first she was wondering if she could get away with denying it, so she played it cagey. Then she realized that Dexter was on to her and wasn't going to believe her if she lied, so she gave up and confessed.
That is what I thought when I heard that conversation. But after hearing Hannah's subsequent conversation with Deb at the courthouse, I started to wonder whether Hannah thought that Deb did it to herself and she had just been wondering whether Dexter would believe that Deb did it herself, and decided he would not believe, so she may as well not bother denying it.

I could see it going either way now. Before this episode, I was 90% certain Deb did it. Now I'm only 50%.

Last edited by john4200 : 12-20-2012 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #69
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But after hearing Hannah's subsequent conversation with Deb at the courthouse, I started to wonder whether Hannah thought that Deb did it to herself and she had just been wondering whether Dexter would believe that Deb did it herself, and decided he would not believe, so she may as well not bother denying it.

I could see it going either way now. Before this episode, I was 90% certain Deb did it. Now I'm only 50%.
My thought. Hannah was basically saying I know you use Xanax. You die from Xanax overdose and everyone, maybe including your brother, will think it's a suicide or accidental overdose.

Hannah was sort of practicing what she'd say when/if Deb dies.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:46 PM   #70
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My thought. Hannah was basically saying I know you use Xanax. You die from Xanax overdose and everyone, maybe including your brother, will think it's a suicide or accidental overdose.

Hannah was sort of practicing what she'd say when/if Deb dies.
That makes no sense. Deb was already dosed with Xanax, and Hannah got blamed for it. Why would Hannah think that if Deb again gets dosed and dies by Xanax, that Hannah would not again be blamed for it?
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:16 AM   #71
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If he had shot LeGuradia with Estrada's gun

And the way Deb shot LaGuardia on the ground would be pretty obvious

with Deb calling it in and LaGuardia going after Dexter
I don't recall any airport scenes in the finale.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:58 AM   #72
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I don't recall any airport scenes in the finale.
ReLAX.
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Old 12-21-2012, 05:59 AM   #73
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ReLAX.
I hate myself for liking this.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:04 AM   #74
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That makes no sense. Deb was already dosed with Xanax, and Hannah got blamed for it. Why would Hannah think that if Deb again gets dosed and dies by Xanax, that Hannah would not again be blamed for it?
Had Dexter, or anyone else, accused Hannah the fact that Debra had a script for Xanax and was taking a lot of it would have come out. Dexter was "point on notice" that blaming Hannah wouldn't "stick" (unless the writers want it to stick)
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:04 AM   #75
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Had Dexter, or anyone else, accused Hannah the fact that Debra had a script for Xanax and was taking a lot of it would have come out. Dexter was "point on notice" that blaming Hannah wouldn't "stick" (unless the writers want it to stick)
Are you saying it was supposed to be a secret that Deb had a prescription for Xanax? I don't think so. It's a perfectly normal thing. Probably half the police force has a prescription for something like that.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #76
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Are you saying it was supposed to be a secret that Deb had a prescription for Xanax? I don't think so. It's a perfectly normal thing. Probably half the police force has a prescription for something like that.
I assumed the secret was the fact that she was abusing Xanax. Popping the pills like candy. Hannah was in the apartment, saw the date of the script on the bottle and how few pills were left.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #77
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I assumed the secret was the fact that she was abusing Xanax. Popping the pills like candy.
But she wasn't. That's the thing. She was being pretty responsible with them, and Hannah drugged her.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:48 PM   #78
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Moving her to that post has three problems:

1) She's even more unqualified to be captain than she was to be lieutenant

2) It removes her from the central location of the series. As soon as LaGuerta became captain, she pretty much disappeared from the spotlight and the moment she came back, she was promptly killed off.

3) Who would they make lieutenant? Quinn?
Angel.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:57 PM   #79
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Jennifer Carpenter should be nominated for an Emmy already.
Didn't she and Hall get married and then divorced during the run of the show? Anyone who could believably handle the nuances of that messed up onscreen relationship while dealing with an IRL relationship with the same person would definitely have my Emmy vote. That must have been miserable.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #80
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I got behind on watching, so I ended up watching several episodes over the weekend. I immediately looked at my spouse and said "she should be covered in blood" when Deb hugged LaGuerta. I saw a little snippet afterward of the director (or maybe producer) saying that Jennifer Carpenter wasn't directed to hug LaGuerta after shooting her. She just went and did it in the moment. I guess it is possible to hug someone like that without getting blood on you, but you'd have to be careful and Deb wasn't.

there really isn't any good way to cover up this one. Deb needed to keep it together and say that she caught LaGuerta trying to set up Dexter, shooting what's his face, and then she shot LaGuerta. Otherwise, Deb's bullet is in LaGuerta and unless they dug it out, there is no way that Deb won't get caught there.

As far as Hannah, I wondered if Deb had dosed herself to blame it on Hannah. She said that she would do anything to put her away, and that would do it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #81
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The idea of Deb poisoning herself did occur to us, but we quickly concluded that that's just not Deb. She's smart enough to think of it, sure, but it's just not the way her mind works. She is the mirror image of Dexter: Dexter lives on the inside where no one can see the real him, and Deb lives entirely on the outside where you can't help but see her. This kind of deception is not her.

Now, admittedly, since her promotion she's been forced to learn a bit about keeping things inside and being sneaky; and admittedly, the writers aren't always so consistent about stuff like this when the plot demands it. But it just didn't fit, and I was glad to see them be overt about confirming Hannah did it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:20 AM   #82
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Hannah confessed to Dexter in prison. She did it.

(Unless she's lying to cover for Deb, which doesn't make a lot of sense.)
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #83
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Hannah confessed to Dexter in prison.
Not exactly. Dexter accused her of doing it, and Hannah paused a long time and then said "Because she was trying to keep us apart". That is a justification, but not exactly a confession. Perhaps we could call it an admission of motive. If Hannah's statement were recorded, it would not be considered an admission of guilt in court -- it was too ambiguous for that.

Based on what Hannah later said to Deb, I could see that as just being Hannah getting tired of telling Dexter that she did not do it, and deciding it was not worth the trouble. Whether Hannah did it or not, she felt betrayed that Dexter chose Deb over Hannah, and that is what Hannah wanted to discuss, so she may have just been trying to move the conversation along.

At this point, I could see it going either way -- Deb or Hannah could have dosed Deb.
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #84
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Given this show's history of resolving the major questions of each season in each season, and not letting plot threads continue, I suspect the writers would be blown away that anybody thinks this is still an open question. Whether she stood up in front of a judge or not, Hannah confessed to Dexter once she realized she wasn't going to get able to sweet-talk her way out of it. I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...as you just demonstrated, you have to throw out the obvious meaning of the scene and then read a whole lot into it to get something else.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:16 PM   #85
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I don't see how they could have made it any more clear.
Really? Your vision is severely limited.

First, Hannah could have said to Dexter, "I admit I put the drug in Deb's water, then I lied to you about not doing it." Then Hannah could have explained why she thought she could get away with dosing Deb (Hannah is smart, it makes no sense that she would think she could do it without Dexter finding out), then explained why Hannah failed to kill Deb (unlike all Hannah's other targets), then explained how Hannah managed to get Deb to drink half the water in the bottle without noticing the taste from the huge amount of Xanax dissolved in it.

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Old 12-28-2012, 03:55 PM   #86
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Really? Your vision is severely limited.

First, Hannah could have said to Dexter, "I admit I put the drug in Deb's water, then I lied to you about not doing it." Then Hannah could have explained why she thought she could get away with dosing Deb (Hannah is smart, it makes no sense that she would think she could do it without Dexter finding out), then explained why Hannah failed to kill Deb (unlike all Hannah's other targets), then explained how Hannah managed to get Deb to drink half the water in the bottle without noticing the taste from the huge amount of Xanax dissolved in it.
Hannah did it.

I had the same thought about the taste of the xanax though. That **** is bitter, no way a person drinking several crushed up pills in a little water wouldn't spit it out. Probably just a plot hole, like Deb's unbloodied dress. Dexter requires a certain amount of suspension of disbelief to be enjoyable.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #87
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Given this show's history of resolving the major questions of each season in each season, and not letting plot threads continue, I suspect the writers would be blown away that anybody thinks this is still an open question. Whether she stood up in front of a judge or not, Hannah confessed to Dexter once she realized she wasn't going to get able to sweet-talk her way out of it. I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...as you just demonstrated, you have to throw out the obvious meaning of the scene and then read a whole lot into it to get something else.
+1
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:47 PM   #88
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I don't see how they could have made it any more clear...
They certainly could have made it clearer and more obvious, but as a viewer I don't want that. As viewers, we (at least most of us) are able to adequately interpret the dialog.

Hannah did it.

Now, who thinks she will be back in the next season as a major element of the overall story? I don't think so. I think she'll go the way of Rita's ex.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:05 PM   #89
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Hannah could have also been "letting Dexter off the hook" by letting him think she did do it to make her going to prison easier on him.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #90
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The whole series after season one could be a dream Deb is having while she's on the Ice Truck Killer's table.
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