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Old 08-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #31
Stormspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Even if something is GPLed, you can sell it.. you just have to provide source on demand (very simplistic explanation).

e.g. you could sell binaries for people who don't know how to build it for themselves.

(the other answer is probably right too -- presumably some of it isn't GPLed)
I'm aware of that, however the license specifically states that "Instant Cake" can be distributed for free. If that's really the case, why aren't more sites hosting it? Is IC a GPL'd product?
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:00 AM   #32
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Here is the text of the License.txt file included on the disk.

Code:
This file is part of InstantCake.

InstantCake is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

InstantCake is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with InstantCake; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA

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Old 08-02-2012, 10:08 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace View Post
Here is the text of the License.txt file included on the disk.

Code:
This file is part of InstantCake.

InstantCake is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

InstantCake is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with InstantCake; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
It may say that, but that's not enough to make it true in the sense that everything on the disk is free.

I can burn a cd with Windows XP on it with an added text file saying everything on the cd is free and freely re-distributable, but my little text file does not make it so.

Part of what's on an IC cd is software that belongs to TiVo, which means the IC folks are not legally able to declare it free for redistribution.


Do you see anything on there about the source code for IC being available?
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:58 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
It may say that, but that's not enough to make it true in the sense that everything on the disk is free.

I can burn a cd with Windows XP on it with an added text file saying everything on the cd is free and freely re-distributable, but my little text file does not make it so.
Part of the reason I was looking for some confirmation. Here's the only other file on the disk that has anything relating to the GPL and source.

Code:
		    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
		       Version 2, June 1991

 Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
                          59 Temple Place, Suite 330 
                          Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
                          
 Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
 of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.

			    Preamble

  The licenses for most software are designed to take away your
freedom to share and change it.  By contrast, the GNU General Public
License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free
software--to make sure the software is free for all its users.  This
General Public License applies to most of the Free Software
Foundation's software and to any other program whose authors commit to
using it.  (Some other Free Software Foundation software is covered by
the GNU Library General Public License instead.)  You can apply it to
your programs, too.

  When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not
price.  Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you
have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for
this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it
if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it
in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

  To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid
anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights.
These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you
distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it.

  For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that
you have.  You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the
source code.  And you must show them these terms so they know their
rights.

  We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software, and
(2) offer you this license which gives you legal permission to copy,
distribute and/or modify the software.

  Also, for each author's protection and ours, we want to make certain
that everyone understands that there is no warranty for this free
software.  If the software is modified by someone else and passed on, we
want its recipients to know that what they have is not the original, so
that any problems introduced by others will not reflect on the original
authors' reputations.

  Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software
patents.  We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free
program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the
program proprietary.  To prevent this, we have made it clear that any
patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all.

  The precise terms and conditions for copying, distribution and
modification follow.

		    GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
   TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

  0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains
a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed
under the terms of this General Public License.  The "Program", below,
refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program"
means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law:
that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it,
either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another
language.  (Hereinafter, translation is included without limitation in
the term "modification".)  Each licensee is addressed as "you".

Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
covered by this License; they are outside its scope.  The act of
running the Program is not restricted, and the output from the Program
is covered only if its contents constitute a work based on the
Program (independent of having been made by running the Program).
Whether that is true depends on what the Program does.

  1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's
source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you
conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate
copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the
notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty;
and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License
along with the Program.

You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and
you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee.

  2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
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    b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
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These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole.  If
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In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program
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  3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it,
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except as expressly provided under this License.  Any attempt
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  5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have not
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  6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the
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license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by
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This section is intended to make thoroughly clear what is believed to
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certain countries either by patents or by copyrighted interfaces, the
original copyright holder who places the Program under this License
may add an explicit geographical distribution limitation excluding
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countries not thus excluded.  In such case, this License incorporates
the limitation as if written in the body of this License.

  9. The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions
of the General Public License from time to time.  Such new versions will
be similar in spirit to the present version, but may differ in detail to
address new problems or concerns.

Each version is given a distinguishing version number.  If the Program
specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any
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either of that version or of any later version published by the Free
Software Foundation.  If the Program does not specify a version number of
this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software
Foundation.

  10. If you wish to incorporate parts of the Program into other free
programs whose distribution conditions are different, write to the author
to ask for permission.  For software which is copyrighted by the Free
Software Foundation, write to the Free Software Foundation; we sometimes
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			    NO WARRANTY

  11. BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY
FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.  EXCEPT WHEN
OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES
PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED
OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  THE ENTIRE RISK AS
TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU.  SHOULD THE
PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING,
REPAIR OR CORRECTION.

  12. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING
WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MAY MODIFY AND/OR
REDISTRIBUTE THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES,
INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING
OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY
YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER
PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
Looks like standard GPL language with no info about source location. It's possible the GPL claim is bogus, but again...
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace View Post
Part of the reason I was looking for some confirmation. Here's the only other file on the disk that has anything relating to the GPL and source.

... GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991

Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
59 Temple Place, Suite 330
Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA
...

Looks like standard GPL language with no info about source location. It's possible the GPL claim is bogus, but again...

I had no idea GPL had been around that long. It's old enough to vote.

IC loads some version of Linux as an OS when you boot from it, so that part is GPL'ed.

Some of the TiVo software is actually Linux, so that part is GPL'ed.

Some of it was actually written by TiVo, so that part it proprietary.

The part of IC that handles the specific task of putting the image on the hard drive, I don't know who wrote that or under what sort of license it's distributed or if the source code for it is available or not.

Personally I consider the entire Instant Cake package to be a commercial product for which I should pay if I'm going to use it, and which I am not authorized to re-distribute.

If a copy happened to fall into my lap, I'm not sure about the ethics of extracting just the TiVo image and using some other form of MFS Tools or MFS Live to restore it to a hard drive. It's not like the image itself is theirs, because if it's anybody's, it's TiVo's, although apparently they are licensed by TiVo to distribute it.

Because it's a commercial product I feel just as free to express an opinion of whether it's worth the asking price as I would for any other commercial product.

If a copy happened to fall into my lap, any expectation that I would destroy it without taking a look to see what's on there are, of course, completely a case of "They don't know me very well, do they?".
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
There has been speculation that Weaknees absorbed/bought out/took over dvrupgrade, but I don't know of any official announcement or acknowledgement.

You'd think they'd be able to do better with it than just operate it in zombie mode.

It's like someone not really familiar with Instant Cake took the main package and just substituted an S3 image where an S1 or S2 used to go and didn't bother to do anything about the part wrapped around that, the whole "boot and load an OS" installer package, having been written to only work with IDE devices, and only in a certain configuration (something about which one the cd drive has to be and which one the target hard drive has to be).

It's not speculation. They did. And they increased the price. They don't want to have instant cake out there and that seems to be the reason for the huge price increase. I'm not sure why they just don't kill it unless it's part of the agreement that they had with Lou. Maybe they have to keep it out there for so many years.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/loujacob

Quote:
Key highlights:

• Sold company in 2010 after nine years of solid growth. Founded and grew this e-commerce company to sustainable profitability within first year, producing more than $5M in revenue at the time of sale.


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Old 11-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #37
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The disc format used that the IC CD was made from will not allow editing. The HD I need shows up as hdi but that is not a choice if you use "other" choice from CD. SO I extracted the CD and edited the PVTbake file to add hdi as a choice and used mkisofs to make a new R10 IC ISO with this command

Quote:
"mkisofs_20120406.exe" -o R10.iso -b R10.bif -c boot.cat -hide-joliet boot.cat -hide boot.cat -no-emul-boot -N -boot-info-table -V DirectR10 -boot-load-size 4 CD
CD boots up fine but gives an error that /cdrom/.live/PVTbake file cannot be found. This does not occur with original CD. I bought this in 2008 and do not have the original ISO anymore or I would just mount the ISO and edit the PVTbake file and unmount without disturbing any of the original boot track but misplaced it and can't spend 40 bucks on a new one just to see if my modded PVTbake file works. Would be nice to have an ISO encase my CD gives out.

Downloaded the newest MFSLive cd but every computer I boot the CD on hangs midway in so I can't use mfstools to install the IC image from USB.

UPDATE:

Ok, got things working like I want. I don't know why I didn't use UltraISO in the beginning so I put the IC CD in and opened UltraISO and save the CD to ISO and the original boot track was preserved so I edited PVTbake_advance file with hdi as that is my drive and added some sata commands as paths and I now have a IC disc that is baking a cake to my hdi sata drive.

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Old 12-15-2012, 10:45 AM   #38
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I found my old SAT T60 which has lifetime in storage and decided "I don't have enough aggravation, lets replace this noisy 40gb hdd and use it.

I got a cachecard/turbonet card on eBay, and set to imaging a drive.

First I ran into the no PC that has less than 8 sata ports and dragged a Dell 4600 out of teh garage only to find BOTH optical drives were dead. Of course I have numerous drives and even found a working IDE, then I gept getting a timeout as apparently it does not see the SATA drive so I found an IDE drive only to find once the Linux was loaded and teh program(s) were loaded the USB KBB was no longer seen. I ordered a PS/2-USB adapter which came yesterday BUT WAS REVERSED. I have a PS/2 KBB out for USPS delivery this morning (thanks Amazon Prime) hopefully 27th time will be the charm?
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If a copy happened to fall into my lap, I'm not sure about the ethics of extracting just the TiVo image and using some other form of MFS Tools or MFS Live to restore it to a hard drive. It's not like the image itself is theirs, because if it's anybody's, it's TiVo's, although apparently they are licensed by TiVo to distribute it.
Since the image belongs to Tivo, it doesn't matter what IC has done with it, technically you should get permission from Tivo before redistributing it. That said, since you can't use the Tivo image without their hardware, it seems they are rather liberal with the use. If you want to sell something with it you need permission but otherwise they look to be supporting all the cool thing we do with our Tivos.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsh View Post
Since the image belongs to Tivo, it doesn't matter what IC has done with it, technically you should get permission from Tivo before redistributing it. That said, since you can't use the Tivo image without their hardware, it seems they are rather liberal with the use. If you want to sell something with it you need permission but otherwise they look to be supporting all the cool thing we do with our Tivos.
Where the heck have you been? At best, TiVo turns a blind eye to some things. At worst (at least so far), they order the removal of images from free download sites.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:42 PM   #41
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Where the heck have you been? At best, TiVo turns a blind eye to some things. At worst (at least so far), they order the removal of images from free download sites.
I thought I was saying the same thing? They aren't like Apple or other companies with a zero tolerance policy, they genuinely seem to like the enthusiasts promoting their platform. Like any company, they have to protect themselves or run the risk of losing ownership.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #42
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I thought I was saying the same thing? They aren't like Apple or other companies with a zero tolerance policy, they genuinely seem to like the enthusiasts promoting their platform. Like any company, they have to protect themselves or run the risk of losing ownership.
You said
Quote:
If you want to sell something with it you need permission but otherwise they look to be supporting all the cool thing we do with our Tivos.
At best, they tolerate the development and use of the third party tools that enable us to do "all the cool thing we do with our Tivos". They provide zero support. The s/w that actually runs on the TiVo is locked down even tighter than anything Apple ever did.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:27 PM   #43
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...The s/w that actually runs on the TiVo is locked down even tighter than anything Apple ever did.
The TiVo specific proprietary software that they wrote certainly is, but the Linux part isn't.

Of course to make a TiVo work, you need both.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:57 PM   #44
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The TiVo specific proprietary software that they wrote certainly is, but the Linux part isn't.

Of course to make a TiVo work, you need both.
It's not so much the s/w I am talking about. The h/w now validates the s/w signature. They haven't gone so far as to validate it to the TSN level but it is no longer possible to install linux utilities.

I bow to no one in my liking of TiVo in general. On a couple of occasions, they have done things for me that they were under no legal obligation to do. But don't try to tell me that they "support" the development and use of things like WinMFS or JMFS or pyTiVo. They don't.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:04 PM   #45
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It's not so much the s/w I am talking about. The h/w now validates the s/w signature. They haven't gone so far as to validate it to the TSN level but it is no longer possible to install linux utilities.

I bow to no one in my liking of TiVo in general. On a couple of occasions, they have done things for me that they were under no legal obligation to do. But don't try to tell me that they "support" the development and use of things like WinMFS or JMFS or pyTiVo. They don't.
They support it to the extent that they used Linux and put themselves into a position where that stuff was possible and when they realized that they didn't become total 455hats about it.

And considering that iOpener pretty much put themselves out of business by putting open source on subsidized hardware, thereby selling a bunch of machines from which they never got subscription revenue, I'd say they've been pretty good sports about it overall.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:27 PM   #46
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The disc format used that the IC CD was made from will not allow editing. The HD I need shows up as hdi but that is not a choice if you use "other" choice from CD. SO I extracted the CD and edited the PVTbake file to add hdi as a choice and used mkisofs to make a new R10 IC ISO with this command



CD boots up fine but gives an error that /cdrom/.live/PVTbake file cannot be found. This does not occur with original CD. I bought this in 2008 and do not have the original ISO anymore or I would just mount the ISO and edit the PVTbake file and unmount without disturbing any of the original boot track but misplaced it and can't spend 40 bucks on a new one just to see if my modded PVTbake file works. Would be nice to have an ISO encase my CD gives out.

Downloaded the newest MFSLive cd but every computer I boot the CD on hangs midway in so I can't use mfstools to install the IC image from USB.

UPDATE:

Ok, got things working like I want. I don't know why I didn't use UltraISO in the beginning so I put the IC CD in and opened UltraISO and save the CD to ISO and the original boot track was preserved so I edited PVTbake_advance file with hdi as that is my drive and added some sata commands as paths and I now have a IC disc that is baking a cake to my hdi sata drive.
Might have avoided the aggrevation by booting off of a flash drive. I had the issue where I could boot off of the CD but it wouldn't mount the CD drive for actually imaging the drive. Then I found this link:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1734
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:08 PM   #47
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Might have avoided the aggrevation by booting off of a flash drive. I had the issue where I could boot off of the CD but it wouldn't mount the CD drive for actually imaging the drive. Then I found this link:

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1734
What that thread fails to mention is that IC in many instances is looking for an IDE drive (/dev/hda, b, c, d, etc) and won't accept /dev/sd"x" as an argument, so you have to have a motherboard with an IDE header and an adapter to write to a SATA drive.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:04 AM   #48
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They support it to the extent that they used Linux and put themselves into a position where that stuff was possible and when they realized that they didn't become total 455hats about it.
I guess I have never really gotten over the time they forced sites that were hosting images to cease and desist. It was insane since the s/w is useless on anything except a TiVo, it wasn't source code, and anybody with a TiVo has access to it.

I'm also a bit peeved that they won't reveal what criteria they use for deciding whether or not to use the programId* to set the metadata, particularly the Season and Episode numbers in the HDUI. Heck, they never even documented that's what they were using. I had to figure it out for myself.

Not to mention that I'm peeved at AMC because, while they are showing the original(1947) "Miracle on 34th Street" numerous times, it is the colorized version.

* in the XML, it is the <program> level <uniqueid>.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:42 AM   #49
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I guess I have never really gotten over the time they forced sites that were hosting images to cease and desist. It was insane since the s/w is useless on anything except a TiVo, it wasn't source code, and anybody with a TiVo has access to it.

I'm also a bit peeved that they won't reveal what criteria they use for deciding whether or not to use the programId* to set the metadata, particularly the Season and Episode numbers in the HDUI. Heck, they never even documented that's what they were using. I had to figure it out for myself.

Not to mention that I'm peeved at AMC because, while they are showing the original(1947) "Miracle on 34th Street" numerous times, it is the colorized version.

* in the XML, it is the <program> level <uniqueid>.
At least they didn't advertise Edmund Gwynne and run the Sebastian Cabot version instead.

As much as I like Cabot, and Jane Alexander for that matter, I like to know what I'm getting ahead of time.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #50
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What that thread fails to mention is that IC in many instances is looking for an IDE drive (/dev/hda, b, c, d, etc) and won't accept /dev/sd"x" as an argument, so you have to have a motherboard with an IDE header and an adapter to write to a SATA drive.
I ran the whole experiment using my laptop and a USB to SATA cable. Apparently IC recognizes devices connected via USB. Worked perfectly once I went to the flash drive method.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:11 PM   #51
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I ran the whole experiment using my laptop and a USB to SATA cable. Apparently IC recognizes devices connected via USB. Worked perfectly once I went to the flash drive method.
I think it depends on IC for which model.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:12 AM   #52
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I found my old SAT T60 which has lifetime in storage and decided "I don't have enough aggravation, lets replace this noisy 40gb hdd and use it.

I got a cachecard/turbonet card on eBay, and set to imaging a drive.

First I ran into the no PC that has less than 8 sata ports and dragged a Dell 4600 out of teh garage only to find BOTH optical drives were dead. Of course I have numerous drives and even found a working IDE, then I gept getting a timeout as apparently it does not see the SATA drive so I found an IDE drive only to find once the Linux was loaded and teh program(s) were loaded the USB KBB was no longer seen. I ordered a PS/2-USB adapter which came yesterday BUT WAS REVERSED. I have a PS/2 KBB out for USPS delivery this morning (thanks Amazon Prime) hopefully 27th time will be the charm?
For what you paid for the cachecard/turbonet card, keyboard and your time, you could have just bought a used S2 with lifetime service. What is the benefit of putting the Time an money into an S1?
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:28 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by shwru980r View Post
For what you paid for the cachecard/turbonet card, keyboard and your time, you could have just bought a used S2 with lifetime service. What is the benefit of putting the Time an money into an S1?
Agreed
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #54
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For what you paid for the cachecard/turbonet card, keyboard and your time, you could have just bought a used S2 with lifetime service. What is the benefit of putting the Time an money into an S1?
Learning Experience!

Or as the GP put it "I don't have enough aggravation..."
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:00 AM   #55
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After reading this thread, I would like to replace my Series 2 with the HD Tivo but I have Comcast. So now I have a cable box. So if i get 2 cable cards do I keep the cable box for on demand? Or will I lose that feature?


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A Tivo HD uses just 1 type M cablecard, or 2 type S. I doubt that anyone still supplies type S.

You cannot get on-demand through a cablecard. If you want that, you will have to keep your cable box and use a different input on your TV to view it. AFAIK, on-demand cannot go through a Tivo HD.

How are you watching on-demand now? Separate from your Series 2?? I don't remember anymore if a Series 2 has an IR blaster to control a cable box.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:55 PM   #56
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I don't remember anymore if a Series 2 has an IR blaster to control a cable box.
It does and I did. I had a Comcast STB and it worked pretty well. Then i got a Tivo HD and FIOS.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:23 PM   #57
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For what you paid for the cachecard/turbonet card, keyboard and your time, you could have just bought a used S2 with lifetime service. What is the benefit of putting the Time an money into an S1?
iirc the sat t60 is a first generation directv reciever. A used lifetime s2 is more likely a stand alone tivo.
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