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Old 12-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #31
lrhorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
LOL, yes. I'll stick in the camp that doesn't consider something broken just because the power plug is not inserted, (or because an externally imposed change impairs the desired basic functionality even though the device is still performing exactly as originally designed)
It isn't performing as originally designed. It was designed to decode the QAM carriers provided by the CATV system and save them to the hard drive. It can no longer do that.

Occam's razor demands we not unnecessarily complicate things. If something does not work properly, it is broken. Again, as far as being broken or not, the cause is irrelevant. Fixing the item is a matter of returning it to a fully functional state (or at least within reasonable limits), irrespective of whether a 6 year old chlid can easily do it in a matter of seconds or it takes more effort than building the pyramids. Just because something is trivially broken, perhaps even so trivially as to be not worth mentioning, does not mean it is not, nevertheless, broken.

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I have to admit I do find a statement such as "The CATV changed their encoding and it broke my TiVo" understandable and not objectionable. However, I think it is actually not a strictly correct usage of "broke".
It absoluetly is. There is a spectrum of operational existence for any device. At one end, the device is considered "fully functional", at the other the device is "completely broken". While a device may be partially broken (or for the glass half full folks partially functional), it is still nonetheless either broken or not, and the classification has nothing to do with how the device is broken. Only the matter of how well it works is at issue.

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However language does evolve and this usage may show up in dictionaries if it is used enough.
It has been common for decades.

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Somehow I doubt if "you pulled the power plug and broke my TiVo" will ever become that popular though.
You obviously have never worked for a CATV company in an engineering or field support role. Easily 60% of reports of the cable being broken (they often use the term "not working") are due to unplugged STBs or DVRs, especially at Christmas time. When I was working for them, they did not charge for sending out a technician to troubleshoot and repair such issues. (Note repairing something is not possible unless it is broken.) I believe they have since started charging for such frivolous dispatches.

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@lrhorer: In case it wasn't obvious, jrtroo is pointing out you incorrectly attributed numerous quotes to me in your post #22.
Yes, it was obvious.

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Is it possible we have broken this thread?
"We" didn't, but I did. I just fixed it, however. Need I point out again that by definition I could not have fixed it unless it were broken?

Last edited by lrhorer : 12-03-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:31 PM   #32
dlfl
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........Occam's razor demands we not unnecessarily complicate things. ......
Who is this Occam guy and why is he threatening me with a razor?

Sorry but there's just no argument, or amount of arguing, that will convince me that a device is broken just because it's unplugged. You get credit for verbosity and sophistry though, although I'm not sure where you can get a discount on a cup of coffee with that.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #33
tvmaster2
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@lrhorer, you are of course, correct.

when the TivoHD was released, both mpeg2 and mpeg4 existed. It would be idiotic of Tivo to assume that "software" and codecs may one day, in the near future, cause Tivo's software to not communicate properly, and ignore an operating system structure which could be altered to follow these changes.

All you need to do is read the user manual (and box) which the TivoHD arrived with to realize that the machine CANNOT record HD programming from a cable company (if said company uses h.264). Therefore, quite simply, the TivoHD does not do what it's own advertising material claims it does, regardless of release dates, etc.

Therefore, whether you use one term or another, it is NOT functioning as advertised. If it cannot function in the future, then Tivo should be offering an extremely inexpensive alternative, either FREE transfer of lifetime service to a unit that CAN record HD material from a cable company, or a combination of low-cost hardware/service plans.

If you, as a company, manufacture hardware products that rely on third-party software events, then you better base your hardware on a platform that can be updated as well.

Tivo has one, single attribute that trumps all the others: it's SOFTWARE interface. For Tivo to conveniently ignore the part of their software that invisibly makes the machine function, so they can expect idiots to update their hardware at their own cost every three years, then they will lose me as a customer.

Tivo's sole goal should be stealing, and keeping, as many customers away from the mostly awful software that runs satellite and cable co's set-top boxes, as well as finding a solution to the ON-DEMAND limitation that those same companies have to this point, denied Tivo users from using.

Sorry, Tivo. lrhorer and myself may be in the minority, but we are correct. Fix your products.


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Old 12-03-2012, 08:54 PM   #34
dlfl
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..........
Now you [tvmaster2] are just ranting senselessly. .......
.......You [tvmaster2] started out with a moderately defensible position in part, but now you have just gone off the deep end into total rubbish.
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@lrhorer, you are of course, correct.
...........
Umm... I guess the above quotes are not what you think he is correct about, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvmaster2 View Post
..........when the TivoHD was released, both mpeg2 and mpeg4 existed. It would be idiotic of Tivo to assume that "software" and codecs may one day, in the near future, cause Tivo's software to not communicate properly, and ignore an operating system structure which could be altered to follow these changes.......
Given the TiVo HD design is now at least 5 years old, and (as lrhorer said in an earlier post) it will be 2 or 3 years before H.264 cable is anything but rare, I think TiVo did fine if they didn't address that functionality in their design. Get real and stop trying to put a guilt trip on TiVo.

BTW, in an effort to say something exactly on topic in response to your first post, I'm on Time Warner and I've seen no hints they are about to go H.264.

I hope TiVo, in their generosity and to promote customer good will, does come up with an H.264 mod for the HD.
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