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Old 11-27-2012, 05:12 PM   #781
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Well, she's filled up our spare 74.5 GB hard drive and has filled up part of our other drive that size, but just in time to the rescue: Yesterday my new Sonology NAS from Amazon arrived, along with two 3TB Western Digital HDs I ordered.
And again I say, "Data always expands to fill all available hard drive space."

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Last night I hooked everything up, and the NAS is now online. For now I've created a T: drive to point to our new abundant space.
Actually, I would say probably forever. Even if all the services are moved to the NAS, you will almost certainly still want to access the NAS as an ordinary file server from workstations within the house.

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I know I've been advised to install pyTiVo directly onto the NAS, which I can look into; I just hope it won't be too complicated for me to figure out.
If the OS is anything like the one on its bigger brothers, then not too much so. I definitely request you move the discussion over to the Linux thread whihc is stickied over on the Home Media forum.

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But for now, I could probably continue to run pyTiVo on our XP machine, and have it store videos on the NAS. I notice it made me password protect the NAS, so what I don't know yet is, when pyTiVo tries to move a video onto it, will it have trouble doing so because of the password protection?
That is a function of Windows. As long as the network share is mapped and pyTivo is run with sufficient permissions, it will be able to read and write the share. If you run kmttg, then you probably always want to run it from a Windows machine, even though it can write directly to the network share. The NAS is not really designed to harbor a desktop environment.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:14 PM   #782
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Has she at least tossed out those Liberty's Kids and Between the Lions VHS tapes??
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:24 PM   #783
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Has she at least tossed out those Liberty's Kids and Between the Lions VHS tapes??
She probably has. When we moved to a new house last year, she went through and kept her most important VHS tapes and got rid of the rest. She probably kept all her DVDs though, because they don't take as much space.

By the way, as we speak, our new NAS is in the process of receiving 23 episodes of Southpark from one of her TiVos. The new hardware is working nicely, and it was remarkably easy to set up, despite my lack of networking/server knowledge.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:47 PM   #784
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At that rate, it might fill up pretty fast. See my response above.

In the mean time, if you have Premieres or hacked S3 TiVos, kmttg can delete the original content after it is transferred, if you like. At first I suspect you want to get comfortable with the setup and make sure it is reliable enough for you. I believe you have already run into the situation where a show did not transfer completely, so if it is of concern to you, you might stay on top of the transfers a bit so you can undelete any partial transfers on the TiVo, but at some point you might consider implementing such a facility.

At some point you might also consider ripping some or all of those DVDs to the NAS, depending on how many you have. Once again I refer you to my response above, though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:24 AM   #785
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She actually still has a giant heap-load of general hospital eps, but she's not transferring them because she keeps telling herself she's going to catch up on it. Plus it's a never ending, always new releasing show so it's not the kind of show that could be put off long term like South Park can.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:25 PM   #786
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She actually still has a giant heap-load of general hospital eps, but she's not transferring them because she keeps telling herself she's going to catch up on it. Plus it's a never ending, always new releasing show
You're kidding, right? A soap opera? That same girl has been pregnant with that same priest's baby for 27 years!!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:35 PM   #787
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You're kidding, right? A soap opera? That same girl has been pregnant with that same priest's baby for 27 years!!!
At least those years pass.

About 2 or 3 seasons into The Nanny, she mentions to a friend having fallen a few years behind on reading Apartment 3G, and the friend says "Well, it's later that same day..."
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #788
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The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS. She has a long list of such shows. She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking. I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)

Also I told her that Time Warner has been one by one eliminating our analog channels. Later this month, there are 6 or 7 of them that are about to disappear. When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)

Anyway, my wife thought of a great idea. She could use the Premier to record local networks, and her two S2's for everything else. But that will be a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand. She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.

I did suggest another idea: that I trade my TiVo HD with her Premier (since I don't care about copy protection. I always watch then delete my shows anyhow.) Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:30 PM   #789
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the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.
The shows on the S2 would wouldn't use as much disk space when copying them to the NAS. I don't mind an S2 on a small TV and it's OK sometimes on a large TV depending on the program.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:07 AM   #790
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The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS.
That's one reason I don;t recommend a Premiere, among many others.

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She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking.
There is no question that the S2 is a dead horse. It just hasn't been buried, yet. At this point I would say the Premiere is backward looking, though.

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I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)
Agreed. I cannot watch most SD material. It's nauseous making.

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When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)
I doubt it. Certainly, I spent many years using an S1 TiVo with a series of different leased STBs, but the setup was hardly reliable. Time Warner had a habit of randomly rebooting the STBs, usually around 04:00, which would cause me to lose several days' worth of recordings. Even without that, however, I was supremely jealous of my sister's DirecTiVo, which had two tuners. Giving up one tuner in a box would be a pretty hard thing to take.

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a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand.
Why not just set up auto-transfer profiles in kmttg to transfer to the NAS?

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She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.
Yes, but copying to the NAS is really a better idea.

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Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.
Not really. Once the PROM is replaced, it only takes a few minutes. See the other forum, and look for the link in my signature.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:09 AM   #791
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The shows on the S2 would wouldn't use as much disk space when copying them to the NAS.
A lot more than an SD copy from his THD or Premiere.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:47 AM   #792
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A lot more than an SD copy from his THD or Premiere.
Analog cable recorded on S2s results in smaller files on the computer than the same analog cable recorded on an S3.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:02 AM   #793
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Analog cable recorded on S2s results in smaller files on the computer than the same analog cable recorded on an S3.
True, but we aren't talking about analog broadcasts. As he mentioned, the analog channels are going away. We are talking about digital SD from a Premiere or THD vs digital SD converted to analog by a DTA or STB and then fed to the S2. Digital SD will be about 1.5G / hour. I don't have an S2 for actual comparison, but I suspect the S1's compression was about the same as the S2, and my old S1 recordings run close to 2.7G / hour. Of course, one has some control over the S2 coding rate, so if one is amenable to making the video even worse, recording in "basic" quality will result in less space utilization.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:21 AM   #794
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Not really. Once the PROM is replaced, it only takes a few minutes. See the other forum, and look for the link in my signature.
I think I'll follow up on that, because I have a coworker who is also highly mad at her copy protected shows. She has multiple TiVos and also an iPad that she'd like to move videos to.

She's been hoping for me to discover options for her, because she doesn't know much about computers. She's not even comfortable replacing a hard drive for that matter, but she'd be grateful for any help I can give her. I haven't said I'd help her though because I don't even know what's involved, but I'll go ahead and look at your link.

She thinks I'm smart and wizardlike with computers, but I told her my knowledge is inferior compared to a lot of people here on TCF.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:43 AM   #795
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Why not just set up auto-transfer profiles in kmttg to transfer to the NAS?
That does sound it makes more sense; I'll suggest this to her. Right now I only know how to set up one time transfers, but I'll look into the auto-transfer strategies.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #796
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One thing I worry: Right now, she's already wiped out 3.9% of the NAS with shows. It doesn't sound like much, but we haven't had it very long. Well, her TiVos were full, and hopefully with her new breathing room, her rate of transfers will slow down soon.

The NAS, including hard drives, cost $400-$500, and I'd prefer that not to be an expense that recurs very often.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #797
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True, but we aren't talking about analog broadcasts. As he mentioned, the analog channels are going away. We are talking about digital SD from a Premiere or THD vs digital SD converted to analog by a DTA or STB and then fed to the S2. Digital SD will be about 1.5G / hour. I don't have an S2 for actual comparison, but I suspect the S1's compression was about the same as the S2, and my old S1 recordings run close to 2.7G / hour. Of course, one has some control over the S2 coding rate, so if one is amenable to making the video even worse, recording in "basic" quality will result in less space utilization.
An S2 records a 2 hour movie from analog cable at best quality, then it gets copied to a FAT32 partition by TiVo Desktop and the last 5 minutes or so get lopped off by the FAT32 4GB file size limit.

Would the same show recorded at SD from a digital channel on an S3 make it onto that same FAT32 partition without any pieces missing?
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:19 AM   #798
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That does sound it makes more sense; I'll suggest this to her. Right now I only know how to set up one time transfers, but I'll look into the auto-transfer strategies.
It is actually one of the few functions I found a little bit weird in kmttg. It took me a couple of tries before I understood the basic idea and was able to get it working properly. Once I understood what he had done, however, I didn't have any further problems. Give it a look, and post over in the Home Media thread if you get stuck. It is entirely possible you may not have the same misconceptions I did when I first tried it out.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:24 AM   #799
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One thing I worry: Right now, she's already wiped out 3.9% of the NAS with shows. It doesn't sound like much, but we haven't had it very long. Well, her TiVos were full, and hopefully with her new breathing room, her rate of transfers will slow down soon.
I'm sorry but I just have to chuckle at your expense on that one.

At some point, I think you will really want to recode the videos to h.264. Using VRD, it is easy (and can even be automated), and will save you 30% on space. Assuming most of her material has commercials, and assuming you pad by 1 minute on both ends, editing out the commercials and padding will save an additional 30%, meaning you will fit about twice as many videos in the same space.

The only drawback (you will need to speak with the matrimonial unit about this) is you will either need to push the videos or else encounter somewhat slower transfers back to the TiVo. Note if she likes vidmgr, which I expect she will, the point is moot.

Now, pushing is really great, and you have seen some of the TV screen shots of vidmgr, which is a push add-on for pyTivo. (As I believe you know, one can also push from the pyTivo web interface from a PC.) There is one serous caveat, however. Pushing requires the cooperation of the TiVo mind server. If either the internet or the mind server are down, pushes will not work. We suffered a period of a couple of weeks when the mind server was severely impaired, and during that period, failure rates in excess of 70% were encountered. If it happens again, I suspect wifey won't be pleased. I'll leave you to decide when to warn her about the issue. During the initial adjustment phase may not be the best time.

One additional wrinkle revolves around your decision to purchase a NAS. Overall, I would not say it was a bad decision, by any means. There is one drawback, however. The NAS simply does not have a powerful processor. Ordinarily, it is far more than powerful enough to run pyTivo, vidmgr, Jukebox, etc. The exception is recoding video. Recoding video is exceedingly CPU intensive. Now, once again, 99% of the time, this will not be an issue in any way. If, however, you do decide to recode all your videos to h.264/MP4 (which I definitely recommend), and if the mind server starts having some issues, I would suggest the following:

For the duration of the issue, shut down pyTivo on the NAS, and temprarily fire it up on the fastest PC you have in the house. You will have to pull all the videos from the NPL, rather than pushing them (no vidmgr), but then that is a given. On the TiVo, you and your wife will not be able to tell any difference, except of course that the file transfers, while still slow, will not be as slow as from the NAS. Once the issue with the mind server has been resolved, you can easily shut down pyTivo on the PC and fire it back up on the NAS.

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The NAS, including hard drives, cost $400-$500, and I'd prefer that not to be an expense that recurs very often.
Well, it shouldn't. The NAS itself can be upgraded without having to upgrade the drives. You can either purchase a larger NAS or more economically, roll your own server. Then of course, you can sell the NAS, sans drives. That said, 4% isn't much - yet. Nonetheless, I would come up with a budget for drive expansion based upon how fast you find yourself filling up the NAS. $100 a year or so - say $8 to $10 a month - may be more than enough.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #800
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An S2 records a 2 hour movie from analog cable at best quality, then it gets copied to a FAT32 partition by TiVo Desktop and the last 5 minutes or so get lopped off by the FAT32 4GB file size limit.
That sounds about right. The compression on the S2 may be a bit better than the S1.

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Would the same show recorded at SD from a digital channel on an S3 make it onto that same FAT32 partition without any pieces missing?
It should very easily so, with quite a bit of room to spare. Of course, it depends entirely on the bit rate set by the provider, but the most common rate shaping in the industry allocates about 3.45 Mbps to each SD video stream. It can be more or less if they employ dynamic rate shaping. I rarely record any SD material, but I have done a small handful, and luckily a few of those are still coded as the original .mpg. The Roaring Twenties, which clocks in at 1:46:32, takes up 1.88G. Extending it to 2:00:00 would make it just a bit under 2.12G - far away from the 4G limit. (Not that I recommend FAT formatting.) It was recorded from Turner Classic Movies before they went HD. Calendar Girls, recorded from WGN America, is 1:31:13 and takes up 2.87G. Extending that to 2 hours would be 3.77G. 'More space, to be sure, but still under the 4G mark. Of course, recoding to h.264 will cut those figures by about 30%.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:36 PM   #801
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The copyprotected shows on her TiVo Premier are supremely annoying her; she'd really like to transfer them to our NAS. She has a long list of such shows. She complained that I should have bought an S2 for her third TiVo and not a TiVo Premier. I told her that I got the Premier because it's more future thinking. I told her for one thing that Premier is hooked to an HD monitor, but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)

Also I told her that Time Warner has been one by one eliminating our analog channels. Later this month, there are 6 or 7 of them that are about to disappear. When we go all digital, she might be happy to have the Premier. (OTOH, maybe when that happens, the S2s will still be useful if they can control an external Time Warner digital tuner via IR, so maybe her point about the S2s is valid, and that's what I should have gotten her.)

Anyway, my wife thought of a great idea. She could use the Premier to record local networks, and her two S2's for everything else. But that will be a lopsided arrangement (because she records an awful lot of stuff not on local networks), so to compensate, she can HMO a bunch of stuff from her S2s over to the Premier soon after they hit Now Playing, to balance out the hard disk demand. She told me that she's noticed that if she records on a nonnetwork chanel on an S2, then moves it to the Premier, it still remains uncopyprotected, so this strategy of hers sounds doable.

I did suggest another idea: that I trade my TiVo HD with her Premier (since I don't care about copy protection. I always watch then delete my shows anyhow.) Then, somehow hack the TiVo HD to defeat the copy protection. But I made this suggestion unseriously, because from what little I've read on this topic, such a hack sounds complicated, and there's a good chance my skills aren't enough to accomplish it.
I think it's time to cut your losses and kick her to the curb.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #802
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but she told me she doesn't care about HD. (That part is tough for me to understand or empathize with.)
That's simple.

She cares more about the story than she does in how it's presented.

I can see where she is coming from. I recently upgraded from a CRT to an HDTV. I was frugal and didn't gain a lot of screen size.
I notice the difference, but "WOW" isn't one of the words I'd use to describe it.
More like "That's nice".

Your wife probably doesn't care at all, which makes things better for you.
Convert everything she saves to the highest SD quality and save yourself hard drive space.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:41 AM   #803
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That's simple.

She cares more about the story than she does in how it's presented.
That's specious. The two are irrevocably intertwined.

Story: A teenage girl and a teenage boy from feuding families met and impetuously fall in love. They secretly get married, but the boy in a fit of rage kills her cousin and is banished from the principality. She and a friar concoct a plan whereby she can go to be with her husband by faking her death. He thinks she is really dead, and kills himself. She sees him lying dead and kills herself. Everyone is sad.

There, I've given you the story, so you never need to watch any production of Romeo and Juliet, or any of its spin-offs, for that matter, right?

Presentation is of extreme importance, even in a book. If it weren't, there would be no point in going to see a play or a film based upon a book, at all.

Watching Franco Zefferelli's Romeo and Juliet is an excellent example. My sister taught English for over 30 years, and almost every year that she taught 9th grade, she would show that film to her class. Usually, it was on a small CRT. When Romeo kills Tybalt, the class laughed. They tended to yak through the presentation, and at the end were chatty and mostly upbeat. When she was able to take them to a theater, however, it was completely different. When Tybalt was killed, they gasped, and some even cried. For most of the film, the theater would be silent as a tomb, no pun intended. At the end of the film, almost everyone would be crying, and some would sob out loud. Few would speak.

I myself have seen the film many times, and on a small screen, the film just does not have a tremendous impact. On a very large screen, it leaves one breathless, and still does so, many years and many viewings later.

Some time try having two or more people tell you the same story, one of whom is a gifted storyteller, and the others not. The gifted storyteller will rivet you to the spot. The others will not make much of an impact, and may even bore or possibly even annoy you. The difference lies in one and only one thing: presentation.

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I can see where she is coming from. I recently upgraded from a CRT to an HDTV. I was frugal and didn't gain a lot of screen size.
I notice the difference, but "WOW" isn't one of the words I'd use to describe it.
More like "That's nice".
I recently obtained a BluRay copy of The Man from Snowy River. I have seen this film more than a dozen times. "That's nice" certainly describes my reaction when watching it in SD on a small video monitor. "Stunning!" was my repeated thought while watching it on a 150" screen in 1080p. As a Thanksgiving treat, I let my housekeeper watch the film during her work hours. Almost the entire time, she sat with her hands over her face in awe. I seriously doubt she would have done so if she were watching it on a 19" CRT.

It is certainly true a superior presentation media will not make up for a poor script, poor acting, or poor cinematography. Indeed, it will make the latter much worse and may even make poor acting more evident. It is also true there are many shows that are not able to benefit much from a large, high definition display. You are not likely to see these in an IMAX theater. Many films, however, benefit greatly from a greater theatrical presence.

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Your wife probably doesn't care at all, which makes things better for you.
Convert everything she saves to the highest SD quality and save yourself hard drive space.
I wouldn't either, for a soap opera, which is one reason - although certainly not the top one or even one of the top three - I don't watch soap operas.

Last edited by lrhorer : 12-03-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #804
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That's specious. The two are irrevocably intertwined.
<snip>
Yeah, wrong word choice. Let me rephrase:

She cares more about the story (and its presentation) than she does in how it's displayed (HD vs. SD).

I'm sure if I had a 150" 1080p screen, I would be WOWed too.
But for now, I'm satisfied with a 32" 720p.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:42 PM   #805
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I talked to my coworker who has a TiVo Premier and an S1, and she also doesn't care about HD. She said to save space she records everything at lower quality except for one show because her sister likes that show, and wants to see it in HD.

She was quite disappointed when I told her my TCF findings about it being pretty much impossible to defeat the copy protection on a Premier, but now she's interested in getting a bigger HD for her Premier, as I think she also has space problems. But she doesn't feel comfortable opening the TiVo or a computer to do it. I suppose if I'm nice I could help her with it, as I still have my TiVo Premier utilities CD from back when I upgraded my wife's Premier.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:53 PM   #806
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Those women are crazy. I record nearly everything in HD and can't stand the look of SD. I want the story, the presentation and the display. Give me it all!
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #807
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Quote:
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Yeah, wrong word choice. Let me rephrase:
OK.

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Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
She cares more about the story (and its presentation) than she does in how it's displayed (HD vs. SD).
Well, so do I. The movie Australia, for example, was visually absolutely astounding. The word "stunning" applied to its cinematography easily as well as to The Man from Snowy River. Meanwhile, the plot of TMFSR was nothing over which to get all excited, nor was the acting exactly stellar, but Australia downright sucked. For a given show, the greater size and higher resolution can make a huge difference, but admittedly in some cases not so much.

I will however dispute the notion that anyone watching a soap opera cares anything at all for the story.

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I'm sure if I had a 150" 1080p screen, I would be WOWed too.
Excuse the pedantry, but the screen is 150". One can display any resolution one likes on it. The projector happens to support 1080p.

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But for now, I'm satisfied with a 32" 720p.
Well, it is certainly better than nothing. I could barely even see a 32", unless I were sitting somewhat closer than I do in the theater, or in the living room for that matter.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:21 PM   #808
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Those women are crazy. I record nearly everything in HD and can't stand the look of SD. I want the story, the presentation and the display. Give me it all!
Will you marry me?
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #809
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:39 PM   #810
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My wife made the comment that lrhorer might be good marriage material, given his advanced abilities to make TiVos do what you want them to do.
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