TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-25-2012, 06:53 AM   #1
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
TCD652160, replaced 1kUF capacitor, still have problems, GSOD

My TCD652160, which worked beautifully for a long time now has problems. It worked great until about a week ago, and then started rebooting more and more frequently. It got to the point it would only run about 10 min, and then reboot. I tried kickstart, but no success. After researching, I opened cover and had one swelled capacitor, which I replaced.

This improved things quite a bit, where it will now run about 1-1/2 hours or sometimes longer, but then instead of rebooting, it just totally locks up and I get the GSOD. The only way to get it back is to power cycle.

I've tried running the various kickstart codes, which all succeed, except the overnight test, where it locks up somewhere during the process and won't finish.

I'm trying to figure out if I have a likely hard drive problem or if there are other power supply problems. It doesn't seem like it would be the power supply, because it can have been in the lock up mode for hours (warm/hot components) and it will still reboot and work okay for about the same time period. In other words, it doesn't seem to make any difference if it was powered down for an extended period, with cold components or not.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it's the hard drive either. I'm tempted to replace it with a new one, maybe from a seller on eBay, that already has the image, but I really don't need the larger capacity all that much, though it would be nice.

What do I look for? I've read that voltages are difficult to check on the power supply's, and you can get get proper voltages and still have a bad supply. Or is it more likely that the image on the drive somehow was corrupted, and is causing the problems? It is interesting that it works for a while, but suddenly and inexplicably locks up.

The interesting part is that it no longer ever reboots, but instead, always just locks up with the GSOD. To me, this seems that it's probably the drive, but then again...

If I buy an ebay drive (I don't have a PC with a SATA port, and don't want to spend the money to get one, or buy the CD needed, or take the time to do it), are there any recommended sellers? I see DVR Dude and uoph as the most common sellers of imaged drives. Anyone have any experience with either?
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:23 AM   #2
bshrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 263
Fan?
What cured the problem a year and a half ago?
bshrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM   #3
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshrock View Post
Fan?
What cured the problem a year and a half ago?
Oh that? I ended up getting a replacement refurb from Tivo, as it was so erratic. It could have been the power supply, but didn't check it that time. Should have. It's out of warranty now, so need to try to fix it on my own if possible.

I don't think it's the fan, because it seems to run just fine. Also, the board temperature is generally at the normal 42 deg C.
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #4
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,632
If you are actually getting a green screen (not a menu background), that is a sign that the Tivo is trying to repair itself. (IIRC)
Usually when a Tivo locks up, it will just freeze. No green screen.
Try leaving it alone in the green screen for as long as you can stand it, and see if it will repair itself.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 05:51 AM   #5
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
If you are actually getting a green screen (not a menu background), that is a sign that the Tivo is trying to repair itself. (IIRC)
Usually when a Tivo locks up, it will just freeze. No green screen.
Try leaving it alone in the green screen for as long as you can stand it, and see if it will repair itself.
It definitely is the GSOD, without any menu background. Just a plain, blank green screen, and this is always where it stops. I've left it that way overnight, and no changes. Would it possibly take longer than this?

What do you mean by IIRC?

If this is the case, does this most likely point to hard drive problems?
Thanks
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 09:06 AM   #6
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
It definitely is the GSOD, without any menu background. Just a plain, blank green screen, and this is always where it stops. I've left it that way overnight, and no changes. Would it possibly take longer than this?

What do you mean by IIRC?

If this is the case, does this most likely point to hard drive problems?
Thanks
IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

It could be the hard drive. You should probably take it out of the Tivo and run the WD Diagnostics tool on it (assuming it is a Western Digital), first the short test then then long test.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #7
poppagene
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

It could be the hard drive. You should probably take it out of the Tivo and run the WD Diagnostics tool on it (assuming it is a Western Digital), first the short test then then long test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
... (I don't have a PC with a SATA port, and don't want to spend the money to get one, or buy the CD needed, or take the time to do it), are there any recommended sellers? I see DVR Dude and uoph as the most common sellers of imaged drives. Anyone have any experience with either?
Hard to run the test outside of tivo without access to pc with sata
poppagene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #8
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,632
D'oh

Well in that case, I would take a chance and get a new hard drive from DVR_Dude and see what happens.

If the problem still persists, then we could reasonably assume something is still wrong with the power supply.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #9
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 12,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
My TCD652160, which worked beautifully for a long time now has problems. It worked great until about a week ago, and then started rebooting more and more frequently. It got to the point it would only run about 10 min, and then reboot. I tried kickstart, but no success. After researching, I opened cover and had one swelled capacitor, which I replaced.

This improved things quite a bit, where it will now run about 1-1/2 hours or sometimes longer, but then instead of rebooting, it just totally locks up and I get the GSOD. The only way to get it back is to power cycle.

I've tried running the various kickstart codes, which all succeed, except the overnight test, where it locks up somewhere during the process and won't finish.

I'm trying to figure out if I have a likely hard drive problem or if there are other power supply problems. It doesn't seem like it would be the power supply, because it can have been in the lock up mode for hours (warm/hot components) and it will still reboot and work okay for about the same time period. In other words, it doesn't seem to make any difference if it was powered down for an extended period, with cold components or not.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it's the hard drive either. I'm tempted to replace it with a new one, maybe from a seller on eBay, that already has the image, but I really don't need the larger capacity all that much, though it would be nice.

What do I look for? I've read that voltages are difficult to check on the power supply's, and you can get get proper voltages and still have a bad supply. Or is it more likely that the image on the drive somehow was corrupted, and is causing the problems? It is interesting that it works for a while, but suddenly and inexplicably locks up.

The interesting part is that it no longer ever reboots, but instead, always just locks up with the GSOD. To me, this seems that it's probably the drive, but then again...

If I buy an ebay drive (I don't have a PC with a SATA port, and don't want to spend the money to get one, or buy the CD needed, or take the time to do it), are there any recommended sellers? I see DVR Dude and uoph as the most common sellers of imaged drives. Anyone have any experience with either?
It's not impossible for there to be other capacitors also going bad that aren't showing visible signs, especially any that were in parallel with the bad one and forced to try to do the job of both.

If you have a voltmeter, connect the black lead (negative) to the chassis on the side away from the power supply, and then take the red (positive) lead and find where the power supply plugs onto the motherboard.

Stick the red lead's probe down into the hole the yellow wire goes into and see if you're getting +12 V or not. The red wire (probably more than one) is the +5 lead, and if the HD uses +3.3V, that'll be the orange wire. The black wires are all ground, so if you don't have a way to clamp the black lead to the chassis, stick the black probe down one of those holes to ground it.

Be sure to know where both ends of the power cord are at all times and keep your hands as far away from the naked power supply as possible.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #10
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
It's not impossible for there to be other capacitors also going bad that aren't showing visible signs, especially any that were in parallel with the bad one and forced to try to do the job of both.

If you have a voltmeter, connect the black lead (negative) to the chassis on the side away from the power supply, and then take the red (positive) lead and find where the power supply plugs onto the motherboard.

Stick the red lead's probe down into the hole the yellow wire goes into and see if you're getting +12 V or not. The red wire (probably more than one) is the +5 lead, and if the HD uses +3.3V, that'll be the orange wire. The black wires are all ground, so if you don't have a way to clamp the black lead to the chassis, stick the black probe down one of those holes to ground it.

Be sure to know where both ends of the power cord are at all times and keep your hands as far away from the naked power supply as possible.
Thanks, will check that this PM. I did find that after it's been off for a while it will power up and work for ~ 2 hours before it quits, but after this, it only runs for ~10 minutes. This seems to be pointing back to the power supply getting flaky after it heats up. Will need to check some other caps, and possibly even remove to test if the look questionable. I'm sure we have cap testers at work.

I also have a 250 GB THX series 3, and it's interesting that it failed the same week as the 160 GB unit. I found 3 bulged caps on it, all connected to the same circuit, replaced all and it works perfectly. These were all 2.2k uf, one 25Volt, the others 6 or 8 Volt, but replaced them all with the same 25Volt units. Wondering if something happened to our power that caused this so close to each other.

I have to say that the lead free solder they use on these power supplies is a pain to work with. It takes a tremendous amount of heat and a high power soldering iron to melt the solder to remove the bad parts. A vacuum desoldering tool doesn't even provide enough heat to melt the solder so that it be sucked away, so you have to use desoldering wick with a high amp iron. The large copper traces certainly don't help, as they act as heat sinks. Once the old ones are off, it's easy to solder in the new ones with lead based solder...
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 07:24 PM   #11
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 12,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
Thanks, will check that this PM. I did find that after it's been off for a while it will power up and work for ~ 2 hours before it quits, but after this, it only runs for ~10 minutes. This seems to be pointing back to the power supply getting flaky after it heats up. Will need to check some other caps, and possibly even remove to test if the look questionable. I'm sure we have cap testers at work.

I also have a 250 GB THX series 3, and it's interesting that it failed the same week as the 160 GB unit. I found 3 bulged caps on it, all connected to the same circuit, replaced all and it works perfectly. These were all 2.2k uf, one 25Volt, the others 6 or 8 Volt, but replaced them all with the same 25Volt units. Wondering if something happened to our power that caused this so close to each other.

I have to say that the lead free solder they use on these power supplies is a pain to work with. It takes a tremendous amount of heat and a high power soldering iron to melt the solder to remove the bad parts. A vacuum desoldering tool doesn't even provide enough heat to melt the solder so that it be sucked away, so you have to use desoldering wick with a high amp iron. The large copper traces certainly don't help, as they act as heat sinks. Once the old ones are off, it's easy to solder in the new ones with lead based solder...

Melt a little of the good old stuff (60/40 or 63/37 or thereabouts) into the joint to help get it to melt.


Something is getting flaky after heating up, maybe power supply, maybe hard drive, maybe motherboard.

But you have to have good power to be able to diagnose any other problems.

On those power supplies I'd be suspicious of all the caps which are paralleled across the +12V and +5V outputs.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 06:40 PM   #12
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Interestingly enough, it's now worked perfectly for the last 4 days, without me having done anything, except changing the resolution setting from Fixed: 480P to Fixed: 1080I. This is what it was previously, but somewhere along the line it changed itself to 480P. I don't understand how this would have changed anything, but it's the only change I made. Connection to 1080P capable TV is via HDMI cable, so I typically run it fixed at 1080I as the highest resolution setting.

Any idea why this might make a difference?
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 07:18 PM   #13
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 12,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
Interestingly enough, it's now worked perfectly for the last 4 days, without me having done anything, except changing the resolution setting from Fixed: 480P to Fixed: 1080I. This is what it was previously, but somewhere along the line it changed itself to 480P. I don't understand how this would have changed anything, but it's the only change I made. Connection to 1080P capable TV is via HDMI cable, so I typically run it fixed at 1080I as the highest resolution setting.

Any idea why this might make a difference?
You forgot to tell us you were using that spawn of Satan, HDMI.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 07:48 PM   #14
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
You forgot to tell us you were using that spawn of Satan, HDMI.
Ok, now I'm confused. Why wouldn't I want to use HDMI? It's the only way to get HD display info to the TV and display a true HD image, at least as far as I know. It sounds like there's something I don't know, although I must say that I haven't had any issues with HDMI....
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 08:22 PM   #15
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 12,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
Ok, now I'm confused. Why wouldn't I want to use HDMI? ...
Because any system where the TV and the TiVo have to maintain a conversation about whether you're allowed to watch what you're trying to watch is a problem waiting to happen, so when problems happen, the first thing you do is see if it exists on the component and composite video outs as well, or if it's confined to the HDMI out.

I'm not saying don't use it, I'm saying always suspect it.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:55 PM   #16
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Well, I'm still having problems. Replaced hard drive with used 1 GB from ebay, and it worked for a while, but recently started crashing to GSOD about every 1.5 hours. The drive was noisy, so figured it's bad, and got a new 1 GB drive.

Well, it's quiet, but still crashes, just not as soon. I'm not sure how long it runs, but can reboot and sometime within 24 hours it crashes to GSOD. It will stay there for days on end.

I've essentially replaced all the caps on the power supply, so don't think it's that. I have a new lap top with SATA, so guess I should remove the drive and check it. What software is recommended? I assume I can download from WD's website.

Is there any way to check the motherboard? Better question, is there anyway to switch lifetime subscrip to another MB? I have two spares, but both are scrip units, so hate to lose my lifetime on this unit.

Guess, maybe I should install an old power supply, the original 160 GB drive and call Tivo to see if they will do another exchange for a fee. Might be the best option....

Thanks,
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #17
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 12,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
Well, I'm still having problems. Replaced hard drive with used 1 GB from ebay, and it worked for a while, but recently started crashing to GSOD about every 1.5 hours. The drive was noisy, so figured it's bad, and got a new 1 GB drive.

Well, it's quiet, but still crashes, just not as soon. I'm not sure how long it runs, but can reboot and sometime within 24 hours it crashes to GSOD. It will stay there for days on end.

I've essentially replaced all the caps on the power supply, so don't think it's that. I have a new lap top with SATA, so guess I should remove the drive and check it. What software is recommended? I assume I can download from WD's website.

Is there any way to check the motherboard? Better question, is there anyway to switch lifetime subscrip to another MB? I have two spares, but both are scrip units, so hate to lose my lifetime on this unit.

Guess, maybe I should install an old power supply, the original 160 GB drive and call Tivo to see if they will do another exchange for a fee. Might be the best option....

Thanks,

If you search WD's site for your drive's model number, the page you get will have something on the left you can click on to get to a "download" page, where you can get the WD diagnostic program to run from a bootable floppy or a bootable CD-R.

Or you could burn yourself a copy of the (free) Ultimate Boot CD, which has the WD software (and a whole bunch of other software), and which is handy to have a copy of.

Just be sure to burn any file with an .iso extension "as an image".
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:39 AM   #18
KMD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 11
Well, nothing but problems. I've run the WD Data Lifeguard tests, and everything comes back good. I've tried two different power supplies, 3 different hard drives and the Tivo still crashes after a couple of hours and goes to the GSOD. The failure is always the same, no exceptions, and never recovers on its own.

Any other ideas? I'm beginning to think the motherboard is bad. I had about 3 bad capacitors at the same time on the original power supply, and I'm wondering if it damaged something. It hasn't worked right since then, and has slowly gotten worse. It used to run a couple of days before it crashed, and now it's down to < 8 hours.

Would there be any advantage to installing a new image? I haven't tried that, but rather doubt that it would help, since 3 pre-imaged drives all have the same issue, but check out otherwise.
KMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 10:42 PM   #19
jmbach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 567
And fresh image is worth a try.

One other program that I use on a windows PC to look at drives is HDD GUARDIAN. It is free and gives me a quick thumbnail of how the drive is operating. What Iike is that even though the SMART on the drive passes, it tells me if the drive is starting to reassign sectors. Any drive that is starting to reassign sectors needs to be replaced even if the SMART passes. Reassigning sectors although it is not supposed to can erase the data in that sector depending on how that sector failed. This can cause corruption of the OS which will introduce failure.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:01 AM   #20
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 1,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMD View Post
If I buy an ebay drive (I don't have a PC with a SATA port, and don't want to spend the money to get one, or buy the CD needed, or take the time to do it), are there any recommended sellers? I see DVR Dude and uoph as the most common sellers of imaged drives. Anyone have any experience with either?
DVR_DUDE has the best reputation, as an individual, selling pre-imaged drives on ebay. I bought one for each model TiVo I own from him, just to see what the big deal was.

Just be aware that most of his advertising is scare-tactics, misinformation, and just plain FUD, that he's resorted to, just like all the others in the game.

If you can replace a cap, you should be technically inclined enough to use the many tools on here, which are FREE, to image/expand a drive. You can also easily get download links for images PM'd to you on here, also for free.

Watch for Newegg to have drives on sale, with free shipping. Most of the time, that makes the cost of the "pre-imaging" higher than the cost of the bare drive.

Other than being able to buy a larger drive, and still be able to add a TiVo approved DVR expander external drive (certain models/circumstances only), at any time. I don't see the value. Most people find themselves having MORE problems once you add an external expander drive, and they tend to have short lifespans.

Be aware that you don't actually -need- an AV-rated drive for any TiVo currently on the market, or any that came before them. TiVo does not use the ATA streaming extensions command set, and just writes the A/V data to the drive like a computer would.

Many people mistakenly believe they either need an AV drive, or that they will get better performance/lifespan by using them. This has not been proven to be the case for TiVo use.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |