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Old 10-22-2012, 05:44 PM   #31
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Depends. The Premiere 4, XL4 and Elite units have MoCa built in so if you have one of those then you only need a MoCa adapter on the router side. FIOS, and a few other cable companies, also supply routers with MoCa built inso on that case you only need an adapter on the TiVo side. Or maybe not at all if you have FIOS and an Elite/XL4/4 unit.

If you have a standard Premiere and a standard router, then yes you will need one at each end. They sell a combo pack with 2 for about $120 so it's a little cheaper then buying them individually.

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Old 10-25-2012, 06:13 AM   #32
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So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:35 AM   #33
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You'd use a splitter on the coax. Then you'd have to use a Moca adapter (coax-to-ethernet) for anything else needing a wired network connection.

But, truth be told, it's a lot less hassle to just run the CAT5 wire needed. No screwing around with adapters, just a simple bit of wire. If you have coax going there then just run the CAT5 along with it. It will be a lot less trouble in the long run.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:33 PM   #34
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So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.
It doesn't need an "extra" coax connector, MoCa runs on the same coax cable that caries your video signal. I'm pretty sure all FIOS routers have MoCa built in, but you might want to search your specific model number just in case. If not you may be able to just get a different one from Verizon and save your self the $ for two adapters.

Also ignore the previous post about needing a splitter, you don't. The MoCa adapters have a pass through port built in. You just connect the cable from the wall to the adapter and then a short cable from the adapter to the TiVo. Also I disagree that it's easier to run Cat-5. I live in a two story house and there is simply no easy way to run Cat-5 from upstairs to down stairs. However coax is already run to both locations on the outside of the house so using a MoCa network was as simple as just plugging into the adapter.

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Old 10-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #35
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Well, it would depend on where the cabling is run and where he wants to place the MOCA bridge. Yes, if you're going to daisy-chain the stuff and the cabling is right there then of course you'd use the in/out connections.

I seem to recall having a Motorola MOCA device that was single-ended, without a pass-through. But I could be wrong and since it's buried in ton of boxes until we move back to the new house I can't confirm otherwise.

As for the routers, any of the Actiontec ones I've had for FIOS supported it. The trick is whether you're using the standard ONT-to-router connection over coax or over ethernet. If you're using an ethernet connection to the ONT then there's some configuration hurdles to leap. But either you'd still only need one MOCA bridge at the Tivo end.

I still come back to the notion that says that in the long run it's a lot less trouble to use an actual wired ethernet link. That will 'just work' and stay that way regardless of any reconfiguration or updates they might push to the router.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:15 PM   #36
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If running cables is an option then of course Ethernet is the best option. However the whole reason technologies like MoCa or Homeplug even exist is because in a lot of cases running wires is not an option.

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Old 10-30-2012, 07:05 AM   #37
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If running cables is an option then of course Ethernet is the best option. However the whole reason technologies like MoCa or Homeplug even exist is because in a lot of cases running wires is not an option.
Or one naively/ignorantly assumed not to be worth pursuing.

Honestly, the ease with which the wire can be pulled is a lot more trivial than people often assume. And the on-going headaches with the alternatives are worse. If there's a coax line pulled then adding the twisted pair for ethernet is certainly not going to be any more difficult. Yes, there a certainly situations where it could be problematic, but those are FAR outnumbered by cases where it'd be trivially simple.

My point is that: keep is simple. Pull the wire once and it will just stay working. I say this having tried various the kludges over the years and the time/money wasted on the powerline, moca, wifi and other hacks always ends up being worse than if a wire was pulled.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #38
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As I said above in my house pulling a wire was not an option. The coax is run on the outside of the house to traverse the 1st and 2nd floors. There is no way to get a cable from upstairs to downstairs other then maybe using the ducting which requires special, expensive, flume rated cat-5 cables or going outside which also requires special, expensive, outdoor rated cables. Hooking up a MoCa adapter took 3 minutes and has worked flawlesssly ever since. (running for about a month now without a single issue) It might have been better to run cat-5, but it would have been significantly more difficult and expensive for me to do so.

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Old 11-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #39
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So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.
Your FIOS router acts as the second MOCA unit by default, so you don't need to do anything with it. All you do is take the existing coax cable going into your Premier, split it with the 1:2 splitter included in the box with the Actiontec adapter.

The Actiontec also includes a pair of 1 meter coax cables in the box. One goes from the splitter to the Tivo Premier, the other goes from the splitter into the MOCA adapter. Done.

This is the one I bought (I got mine on ebay for a few bucks less)

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Veri...c+moca+adapter
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:00 PM   #40
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Your FIOS router acts as the second MOCA unit by default, so you don't need to do anything with it. All you do is take the existing coax cable going into your Premier, split it with the 1:2 splitter included in the box with the Actiontec adapter.

The Actiontec also includes a pair of 1 meter coax cables in the box. One goes from the splitter to the Tivo Premier, the other goes from the splitter into the MOCA adapter. Done.

This is the one I bought (I got mine on ebay for a few bucks less)

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Veri...c+moca+adapter
*wince* after getting the wife to approve the purchase of the Stream, I doubt I'd be able to convince her to spring for another $80 or so at least not right now

Check that - it looks like they are around $90
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:11 PM   #41
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The Tivo site sells moca adapters for $50. Still not cheap but it's cheaper than most other locations.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:29 AM   #42
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As I said above in my house pulling a wire was not an option. The coax is run on the outside of the house to traverse the 1st and 2nd floors. There is no way to get a cable from upstairs to downstairs other then maybe using the ducting which requires special, expensive, flume rated cat-5 cables or going outside which also requires special, expensive, outdoor rated cables. Hooking up a MoCa adapter took 3 minutes and has worked flawlesssly ever since. (running for about a month now without a single issue) It might have been better to run cat-5, but it would have been significantly more difficult and expensive for me to do so.

Dan
First, inside a duct is called 'plenum' rated, a flume is something you'd ride at the amusement part.

Second, it's a common argument tactic to just label things expensive as a quick way to dismiss the idea. I purposefully didn't mention the high cost of MOCA adapters. Not just because they're expensive but because they're a LOT more expensive than wire. And still bring along the long-term hassle. More money and on-going adventures vs simple wire.

I wouldn't think that logic is hard to understand. Combine their expense with network performance and compatibility issues and it really makes these look like they're more trouble than they're worth. Compared to just simple wire, that is.

There's another thing to consider, what else might be at that location that could use network connectivity. Like another streaming device (apple tv, roku, etc), an additional wireless access point or perhaps a home theater PC.

Just think seriously and honestly about what will work reliably long term before spending the money either way.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:57 PM   #43
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First, inside a duct is called 'plenum' rated, a flume is something you'd ride at the amusement part.

Second, it's a common argument tactic to just label things expensive as a quick way to dismiss the idea.
1000' of plenum rated cat5e is $175 from Monoprice. A MoCa adapter is $50 from TiVo. (See here) Outdoor cat5e is a little cheaper at $122 for 1000' but it's still cheaper, and easier, to buy two Moca adapters.

As for speed... You're right there are compromises with speed. But when it comes to TiVo it doesn't really matter. TiVo's are limited by other factors. When you transfer something between two TiVos, or TiVo to PC, there is an encryption process involved that is CPU bound and will never saturate even a MoCa network. For the Stream they're using MRS which is a little different, but the stream itself can still only recode at about 1/3-1/2 realtime. For a full HD stream that's still only about 40Mbps. If you're transferring large files between two PCs then MoCa may not be sufficient, but for TiVo use it's fine.

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Old 11-03-2012, 02:40 PM   #44
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I am using an Apple Airport Extreme based wireless network. The TiVo Stream is connected via ethernet to the Extreme.
I then have a AirPort Express set as a wireless bridge hardwired to a 5-port Netgear switch. This is all housed in the media center in an adjacent room and connects to all of my devices with ethernet.

The TiVo Stream works flawlessly. No stuttering and excellent response. Transfer times are comparable to times suggested by TiVo.
This may be another option, although cost may still be a sticking point ($99). I was also in a position that running wiring was not an option.

Of note, the same setup did work well with both the TiVo and the Stream connected to the switch and then to the Express, but space was at a premium in the cabinet, so I moved the Stream.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:02 PM   #45
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1000' of plenum rated cat5e is $175 from Monoprice. A MoCa adapter is $50 from TiVo. (See here) Outdoor cat5e is a little cheaper at $122 for 1000' but it's still cheaper, and easier, to buy two Moca adapters.

As for speed... You're right there are compromises with speed. But when it comes to TiVo it doesn't really matter. TiVo's are limited by other factors. When you transfer something between two TiVos, or TiVo to PC, there is an encryption process involved that is CPU bound and will never saturate even a MoCa network. For the Stream they're using MRS which is a little different, but the stream itself can still only recode at about 1/3-1/2 realtime. For a full HD stream that's still only about 40Mbps. If you're transferring large files between two PCs then MoCa may not be sufficient, but for TiVo use it's fine.

Dan
what kind of house do you live in that would need 1000' between the router and your TiVo?? I live in a large 2 story house and I ran cat6 to each room from our "office" where I have my main switch and modem/router located, and I was no where close to 1000'. Also you can buy pre-made cables in 3', 6', 10', 25', 50', 100', and even 150+ lengths - fine for most people. You can simply run them along with the coax (like what was already said) with not much effort. You then have the expansion on your network to run anything you will ever need, have no potential software/hardware issues, no power on/off issues, and it is a guaranteed connection between the 2 ends of the cat6.
And there is no other (MoCa / power line) hardware required
I am gigabit to every room in my house, we have 3 TiVos with Blu-Ray, Xbox, Wii, etc at each TV - MoCa / power line adapters would "work" and be slow and aggravating, what I have is always on and never the issue when something is not working.

Now all that said,
I am looking to put a stream in at my mother-in-laws which is on the other side of the country. I am not sure what the attic / crawl space / roof options are for running a wire at her location, and I will not be there to do it, so we are looking at either MoCa or power line. I have used mega Plug AV (200mbps) in the past but it was not for the stream. I see mixed reviews about it working for the stream so ...
... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
or
Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit



Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream?
It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real?
MoCa is supported and tested even though it only offers 175mbps.
Feedback please?
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #46
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I am looking to put a stream in at my mother-in-laws which is on the other side of the country. I am not sure what the attic / crawl space / roof options are for running a wire at her location, and I will not be there to do it, so we are looking at either MoCa or power line. I have used mega Plug AV (200mbps) in the past but it was not for the stream. I see mixed reviews about it working for the stream so ...
... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
or
Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit



Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream?
It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real?
MoCa is supported and tested even though it only offers 175mbps.
Feedback please?
Anyone?
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:49 AM   #47
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The stream is not a radio- it can be anywhere hardwired in the network. Put it in a closet next to the router.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:22 AM   #48
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The stream is not a radio- it can be anywhere hardwired in the network. Put it in a closet next to the router.
?

Her current Tivo is using WiFi, I need to get either of the options in my post to use in place of WiFi so she can use the stream. The stream will go right with the router in another room, I got that covered heh.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:25 PM   #49
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If the wifi is N and has a good connection then it mig work OK. This is all just networking. The TiVo is streaming a program to the Stream box just like it would if you had two TiVos and where trying to watch the program in another room. The Stream then recodes to H.264 and sends that over to your iPad.

So if there is a dedicated wifi N bridge between the TiVo and the leg of the network the Stream is connected to it'll likely work just fine. If the iPad and the TiVo share the same wifi network then it might still work, but you'll be pushing it.

I had an AV200 powerline networking bridge when I first bought my Stream. It worked fine. Downloads were slow, but streaming worked fine. At least for one iPad anyway.

I switched to the Actiontech MoCa adapter and streaming still works fine and downloads are now twice as fast.

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Old 12-05-2012, 02:30 PM   #50
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If the wifi is N and has a good connection then it mig work OK. This is all just networking. The TiVo is streaming a program to the Stream box just like it would if you had two TiVos and where trying to watch the program in another room. The Stream then recodes to H.264 and sends that over to your iPad.

So if there is a dedicated wifi N bridge between the TiVo and the leg of the network the Stream is connected to it'll likely work just fine. If the iPad and the TiVo share the same wifi network then it might still work, but you'll be pushing it.

I had an AV200 powerline networking bridge when I first bought my Stream. It worked fine. Downloads were slow, but streaming worked fine. At least for one iPad anyway.

I switched to the Actiontech MoCa adapter and streaming still works fine and downloads are now twice as fast.

Dan
currently 802.11g so its going to get replaced with one of the 2 options I have in my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PROxac View Post
... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
or
Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit



Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream?
It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real?
MoCa is supported and tested even though it only offers 175mbps.
Feedback please?
the AV 500 specs show it faster than the Actiontec, but TiVo likes the Actiontec so I suppose that is what I should use in spite of speed.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #51
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I've never used the AV500, but from what I understand it's highly dependent on the quality of the electrical wiring and the noise introduced by the electrical devices connected to the house. The coax lines tend to only have a couple things connected so interference is a lot less likely so in most cases MoCa works better even though it has a lower theoretical speed.

Remember to get a POE filter if you're going to get MoCa. Most cable companies require them to prevent interference with neighbors signals, and they will actually boost the MoCa signal a little by reflecting it back into the line. Plus they're only a few dollars.

Dan
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:41 PM   #52
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Ordered. thanks!
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:47 PM   #53
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I am using an Apple Airport Extreme based wireless network. The TiVo Stream is connected via ethernet to the Extreme.
I then have a AirPort Express set as a wireless bridge hardwired to a 5-port Netgear switch. This is all housed in the media center in an adjacent room and connects to all of my devices with ethernet.

The TiVo Stream works flawlessly. No stuttering and excellent response. Transfer times are comparable to times suggested by TiVo.
This may be another option, although cost may still be a sticking point ($99). I was also in a position that running wiring was not an option.

Of note, the same setup did work well with both the TiVo and the Stream connected to the switch and then to the Express, but space was at a premium in the cabinet, so I moved the Stream.
Do you know what generation your Airport Extreme is? I have a 1st generation and wondered if the antenna enhancements were a factor in your setup.

Last edited by spock : 12-27-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:05 PM   #54
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Another data point for wireless

Just thought I'd add my experiences with a new Tivo Stream.

My setup:
- Hardwired Ethernet Tivo Premiere Elite (XL4)
- Hardwired Ethernet S3
- Tivo Premiere XL ethernet to 802.11n bridge (old Asus router in bridge mode thanks to DD-WRT)
- Apple Time Machine (latest generation) as my wireless router (802.11n), which is equivalent to an Airport Extreme.
- Tivo Stream connected to a Trendnet 8-port Gb switch that's connected to the Time Machine.

I figured that I'd either have to run wire to the Premiere XL or get a MoCA adapter (and enable the bridge on the Elite), but so far, it doesn't look like I'm going to need to.

Setup of the Stream went smoothly and I'm able to watch programming on an iPad 4th gen from any of the three Tivos, including the one connected via wireless bridge. No stuttering, high-quality video. I haven't done much benchmarking on transfers, so I'm not sure how much faster downloads run from the hardwired Tivos, but it works for all three, in any case.

So, in summary, it looks like a quality 802.11n router along with a good 802.11n bridge for the Tivo (which I think is what the Tivo-branded "n" adapter actually is) might be a workable Stream solution, as long as a strong signal is available for the bridge. I get why Tivo doesn't technically support it, but wanted to provide another data point showing it can work.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:32 AM   #55
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I have always had my TiVo connected to the web via an Airport Express. I simply tell it to serve ethernet service, rather than extending the network, and the TiVo treats it like a router connection. I am sure this set-up is well-known, as I think I learned about it here!

Obviously, the problem I encountered with the Stream was not being able to hook it up to the Express, which only has one ethernet jack. So I took a shot at simply plugging it into my router (located on the other side of the house, almost as far as it could possibly be from my TiVo) and hoping for the best.

It worked! I am pretty happy, as I wanted to use the Stream, but didn't think it was worth fundamentally altering my network and home entertainment set-up.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:35 AM   #56
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The stream does not have a radio, so its location is irrelevant.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #57
ort
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I finally got a Stream and got this set up.

I have my router and stream down in my basement and my TiVo Premiere upstairs connected via the Wireless N Dongle.

It works pretty well most of the time, but there are some rooms where it has trouble getting and maintaining a connection.

I think I either need to move everything upstairs, or setup a wifi repeater.

Either way, it can wait.

I was annoyed though, because for the first hour or so, it wouldn't work at all. Nothing would stream. Then something just happened and everything worked great. I have not idea what changed.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:34 AM   #58
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Probably the software update. Mine took a little bit to get going also
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