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Old 10-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #1
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Homeland - 9/30/12

No thread yet?

I thought this episode was a really good start and, again, I was left with the feeling...."huh? It's over ALREADY?". Can't wait for each episode. I'm glad they moved things forward to have Brody be a Congressman already. It avoids some redundancies that could have happened and sets up lots of different angles.

Characters are awesome.

I would have wanted to tell Estes to ***ck off, but it's in her blood, so I understand why she didn't Hopefully, Saul, can "manage" her in a way that keeps it all moving forwar! Love this show!
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:22 AM   #2
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We're still catching up on S01, based on recommendations here. Up to about S01E07. Liking it well enough so far.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:37 AM   #3
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I have fear that the tension will be missing this season. We already know the answers to the REALLY critical "Is he? Will he?" questions.

A couple of the happenings in this first episode were too pat for what we expect from Homeland.

Estes has a list of future drone targets filed away in his office? Methinks the targets are picked in short timeframes based on fresh intelligence. And then Nassir needed Brody hisself to go get the docs? No way.

Why were they locking gates at the end of the bazaar as Carries approached? The store just happened to be closing?

Dana just happens to blurt out that Dad is a Muslim in her class with the Vice-President's son?

The Vice-President is going to pick a freshman congressman with a whole few months of experience to be his running mate? There's a big need to shore up the vote of the DC area voters?

The CIA needs Carrie because an unknown source with a critical warning will only talk to her. R-i-g-h-t.

A bit disappointing. As I said I hope they can get close to the original level of tension.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:16 PM   #4
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I didn't follow the list of targets thing. I thought it was a list of known potential targets of terrorists. Why would they keep that in a safe anyway? Was Brody sent to retrieve it so they would know which of their "actual" targets are "known" targets?
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:21 PM   #5
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I expected Brody to take a photo of the document from Estes' safe instead of handwriting everything and wasting precious seconds. Other than that, I'm glad it's back!
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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I expected Brody to take a photo of the document from Estes' safe instead of handwriting everything and wasting precious seconds. Other than that, I'm glad it's back!
There was a line of dialog when he was going through security saying something to the effect that no electronics/cellphones were allowed in. (Assuming I heard correctly, which happens less and less often over the years.)
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:30 PM   #7
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There was a line of dialog when he was going through security saying something to the effect that no electronics/cellphones were allowed in. (Assuming I heard correctly, which happens less and less often over the years.)
I missed that. But James Bond used a good, old-fashioned film spy-camera ... back in the day!
Do they even make those cardboard, disposable film cameras anymore?
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #8
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I missed that. But James Bond used a good, old-fashioned film spy-camera ... back in the day!
Do they even make those cardboard, disposable film cameras anymore?
I just recently threw out a box of junk, including an old "Spy Pen Camera" I had when I was a kid. Didn't actually look very much like an ink pen, though, to be honest.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #9
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I didn't follow the list of targets thing. I thought it was a list of known potential targets of terrorists. Why would they keep that in a safe anyway? Was Brody sent to retrieve it so they would know which of their "actual" targets are "known" targets?
That's how I took it.

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And then Nassir needed Brody hisself to go get the docs? No way.
It was a test of his loyalty. Who knows how much they really needed it.

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Why were they locking gates at the end of the bazaar as Carries approached? The store just happened to be closing?
It seemed to me that gate was already locked. Maybe it's always locked. The store was not closed, since Carrie entered it from within the bazaar. Not sure why you would care about this.

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Dana just happens to blurt out that Dad is a Muslim in her class with the Vice-President's son?
Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch, but she is a teenager, and teens don't always have the best judgment.

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The Vice-President is going to pick a freshman congressman with a whole few months of experience to be his running mate? There's a big need to shore up the vote of the DC area voters?
McCain picked Sarah Palin. That was less believable, and that is the real world.

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The CIA needs Carrie because an unknown source with a critical warning will only talk to her. R-i-g-h-t.
I thought this was a good way to bring Carrie back in. They had to have some reason to bring her back, and I thought last season they established that she had been in the field and had "agents" such as this one. Yeah it's convenient, but other shows would just do some hand waving and then have her back as a full agent within the first half hour of the show.

I thought this was a strong episode. It layed the groundwork for a new season, so of course there's not going to be the same level of tension as later episodes. Will she make the vegetable lasagna or won't she? I did think the level of tension was pretty high in second half of the episode. Not bomb vest in the shelter high, but up to par with last season.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #10
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I would have wanted to tell Estes to ***ck off, but it's in her blood, so I understand why she didn't Hopefully, Saul, can "manage" her in a way that keeps it all moving forward! Love this show!
Did you notice the big grin on Carrie's face after she faked out the guy that was chasing her? She's an adrenaline junkie, she craves the "high" of being in the field. That is her blessing and curse

Quote:
Estes has a list of future drone targets filed away in his office? Methinks the targets are picked in short timeframes based on fresh intelligence. And then Nassir needed Brody hisself to go get the docs? No way.
Nazir probably doesn't have a lot of people who could get into Estes' office, Brody was probably the best choice

Quote:
Why were they locking gates at the end of the bazaar as Carries approached? The store just happened to be closing?
I didn't read it that way, I thought she just ended up at a dead end that was locked, like a fire exit.


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I didn't follow the list of targets thing. I thought it was a list of known potential targets of terrorists. Why would they keep that in a safe anyway? Was Brody sent to retrieve it so they would know which of their "actual" targets are "known" targets?
He didn't steal a list he stole "keys to a database" note that it was a set of numbers that Brody copied into his notebook -- it is possible that what Brody stole isn't what Nazir's journalist friend said it was. Those numbers could be any number of things

Quote:
The Vice-President is going to pick a freshman congressman with a whole few months of experience to be his running mate? There's a big need to shore up the vote of the DC area voters?
I'll let it go for plot purposes, and remember Brody doesn't think he has a real chance, Brody is also a "War Hero"

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The CIA needs Carrie because an unknown source with a critical warning will only talk to her. R-i-g-h-t.
Of all the ways they had to get Carrie back into the CIA (otherwise the series doesn't go much of anywhere) this one was the least unbelievable. I thought Carrie was going to work for her friend at "Ballard Home Communications" and Saul was going to "sub contract" some stuff out to them
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:45 PM   #11
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The CIA needs Carrie because an unknown source with a critical warning will only talk to her. R-i-g-h-t.
I read an interview with the writers just this morning where they said they lifted this idea more-or-less directly from a John le Carré novel. Not to say that's a validation, necessarily. I just thought it was interesting.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:44 PM   #12
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Keys to a database make even less sense to keep on paper.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:49 PM   #13
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Brody's treachery is becoming less and less believable. When he was asked to steal the information from Estes safe, he explained that he would not help them attack innocents. But as soon as Issa was mentioned, Brody was willing to go through with the theft with no further explanation. That just does not make any sense. Brody is worried about the poor boy Issa getting killed, so he is going to help the terrorists kill innocent American boys and girls?

Brody's motivation does not ring true. And I cannot buy that he was brainwashed so that whenever he though of Issa, he would do whatever horrible thing he was asked to do -- for the terrorists to have the ability to do something so specific to his mind while leaving the rest of his considerable intellect operating efficiently seems highly unlikely.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:35 PM   #14
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I expected Brody to take a photo of the document from Estes' safe instead of handwriting everything and wasting precious seconds. Other than that, I'm glad it's back!
Clearly, Brody hasn't discovered camera phones yet.

I didn't understand the safe thing either. Why would Nazir want this list anyway? Is he going to attack places that the CIA already thinks are targets? Why???
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:07 PM   #15
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Brody is worried about the poor boy Issa getting killed, so he is going to help the terrorists kill innocent American boys and girls?
Wasn't Issa killed in the drone attack? That was the catalyst for Brody becoming an almost terrorist. She mentions Issa, and he remembers his rage at the USA and is more willing to perform the task she has for him. I don't remember any discussion of killing innocent American boys and girls.

And don't forget, they can completely ruin Brody's life by divulging that he has been working for them. He murdered someone for them. He pretty much has to do what they say if he wants things to continue as they are.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:19 PM   #16
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Wasn't Issa killed in the drone attack? That was the catalyst for Brody becoming an almost terrorist. She mentions Issa, and he remembers his rage at the USA and is more willing to perform the task she has for him. I don't remember any discussion of killing innocent American boys and girls.
The "task" as you call it, is to steal information that will help the terrorists kill civilians. Brody told her, "I will not help you with the killing of innocent civilians". I'm surprised you cannot remember that -- it was a pivotal scene in this episode.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:20 PM   #17
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Clearly, Brody hasn't discovered camera phones yet.
They made a point of the guard at the entrance security check taking his cell phone

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I didn't understand the safe thing either. Why would Nazir want this list anyway? Is he going to attack places that the CIA already thinks are targets? Why???
If Nazir knows what the drones are going to target, he could move his people out of the way and/or put innocents in harms way.

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Old 10-02-2012, 03:29 PM   #18
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How long before we find out the Nazir deliberately put Issa in danger of being killed so that he could get complete control over Brody. It's not a stretch to believe that children would be used in this way...and Brody's reaction to that news?
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:20 PM   #19
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Great episode. Nobody plays slightly crazy, very bipolar, extremely intense like Claire Danes plays Carrie Matheson. Most deserved Emmy in history.

Y'all can pick this to pieces, but it's more fun if you just watch and enjoy. And really, most of what you're picking apart isn't crazy bad (like Revolution, where we wonder why steam engines don't work, etc). Brody's motivation is what it is. What he stole from Estes safe is what it is. We can't over-analyze the legitimacy of what he stole, because we don't really know how it will come into play.

And honestly, the joy of TCF TV threads is truly diminished by the incessant whining. Again, I understand when a show has become untrue to its canon. But jeez, we don't even know what the canon is for this year.

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How long before we find out the Nazir deliberately put Issa in danger of being killed so that he could get complete control over Brody. It's not a stretch to believe that children would be used in this way...and Brody's reaction to that news?
I thought we already knew that. But maybe that's because I assumed that's what actually happened, so I assumed I saw it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:22 PM   #20
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The "task" as you call it, is to steal information that will help the terrorists kill civilians. Brody told her, "I will not help you with the killing of innocent civilians". I'm surprised you cannot remember that -- it was a pivotal scene in this episode.
I remember the scene fine. I was responding to your quote where you seemed to be putting "the poor boy Issa" on one side of the scale and "American boys and girls" on the other. Brody wasn't weighing the life of Issa, who is already dead by the way, against the lives of American children. He was being reminded of the reason he turned against the US government, and probably realizing at the same time what might happen to him if he refused to do what she was asking. I just didn't find his actions any less believable than what we've seen him do before.
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:52 PM   #21
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I remember the scene fine. I was responding to your quote where you seemed to be putting "the poor boy Issa" on one side of the scale and "American boys and girls" on the other. Brody wasn't weighing the life of Issa, who is already dead by the way, against the lives of American children.
Evidently you do not remember the scene. You even said you did not remember it in your previous post. To refresh you memory, here are the key elements of dialog from the scene with Brody and the woman whose family has been close to Nazir since 1947.

Quote:
Brody: If you need these, you must be planning to hit one of these targets....I am not a terrorist!

Woman: There is a difference between terrorism, and a justifiable act of retaliation.

Brody: I will not help you in the killing of innocent civilians!

Woman: ....The point is blatant aggression against a sovereign nation cannot go unanswered!
Clearly Nazir wants Brody to steal the encryption keys to the database of potential targets so that Nazir's terrorists can attack one or more of the targets, and Brody realizes this.

To those who are confused about what is being stolen, I thought it was fairly clear so I will explain. The Department of Homeland Security has a list of potential targets that terrorists may attack in the US -- DHS Threat Assessment. Presumably this includes things like the value of the potential target, how vulnerable it is, and what sort of security the potential target has in place (or how that security is being increased). Obviously this information would be valuable to terrorists planning to attack US targets. Brody's comments quoted above make it clear that he knows this.

Here is the folder that Brody got the keys from:


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Old 10-02-2012, 05:15 PM   #22
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Evidently you do not remember the scene. You even said you did not remember it in your previous post.
I'm not sure if you are being serious. I said that I didn't remember any discussion of killing innocent American boys and girls (i.e., children). I didn't remember it because it never happened, as you have just proven with your transcript of the dialog.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:31 PM   #23
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I'm not sure if you are being serious. I said that I didn't remember any discussion of killing innocent American boys and girls (i.e., children). I didn't remember it because it never happened...
Yes, serious. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course it happened. Killing innocent civilians at a US target is almost certain to include boys and girls.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:59 PM   #24
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Yes, serious. Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course it happened. Killing innocent civilians at a US target is almost certain to include boys and girls.
I interpreted your post to mean Brody was weighing the life of "poor boy Issa" against "innocent American boys and girls," but they weren't talking about American children, and I wouldn't expect many children to be at the places on the potential targets list (I could be wrong about that, I haven't seen the list ). You said you were finding Brody's actions less and less believable, so I responded with some reasons Brody might have agreed to break into the safe.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:03 PM   #25
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I wouldn't expect many children to be at the places on the potential targets list (I could be wrong about that, I haven't seen the list ).
It is a list of all potential targets of US interests that DHS believes terrorists may hit. Certainly children are highly likely to be at many of the potential targets.

But you are really getting hung up on a minor point. Even if there were no children, there would be innocent civilian men and women killed (and many would be mothers and fathers to children). For Brody being willing to kill such people in retaliation for Issa being killed is very hard to believe.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #26
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But you are really getting hung up on a minor point. Even if there were no children, there would be innocent civilian men and women killed (and many would be mothers and fathers to children). For Brody being willing to kill such people in retaliation for Issa being killed is very hard to believe.
For me, it's enough that they showed how conflicted he was about it. He probably didn't think everyone in the bunker was evil, yet he came close to blowing them all up. Now the targets seem like they may include more innocents, so he is even more conflicted, but what was the alternative to breaking into the safe? Could he say no, and Nasir would just let him go on with his life? I don't think so. So pull on the Issa heartstrings a little, and all of a sudden he doesn't see breaking into the safe as such a bad option.

I suspect he will struggle a lot this season about what he does or doesn't do for Nasir.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:29 PM   #27
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"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

It's pretty disconcerting that Apu's hottie 'journalist' has the combination to the Director of Counterterrorism's safe inside the CIA. How the hell did they get that?

You'd think that the CIA has a large enough budget so that Carrie doesn't have to wear a $5 Walmart wig.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:11 PM   #28
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"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

It's pretty disconcerting that Apu's hottie 'journalist' has the combination to the Director of Counterterrorism's safe inside the CIA. How the hell did they get that?...
It's gonna turn out that the obvious is obvious - Carrie's Arab-American CIA pal is Nassir's mole in the CIA. Note how he was the one who dragged Estes out of his office right on cue.

Let's not mention that it may be more the FBI that has the list of internal US targets than the CIA.

Oh. And Apu is an Indian (presumed) Hindu. Sorta the opposite of Muslim. They tend to fight each other.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:27 PM   #29
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Great episode. Nobody plays slightly crazy, very bipolar, extremely intense like Claire Danes plays Carrie Matheson. Most deserved Emmy in history.
And that burgeoning look of joy on her face as she left the bazaar was pure brilliance.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:33 PM   #30
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Oh. And Apu is an Indian (presumed) Hindu. Sorta the opposite of Muslim. They tend to fight each other.
Yes, I was making a joke, equating Abu with the Simpsons character, as sometimes is my wont. And noting my disdain, if you will, of Nazir.
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