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Old 09-21-2012, 01:43 PM   #1
B1LL
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HDMI signal dies after the "Welcome.." screen on TiVo HD

I have 2 Lifetime Tivo HDs that have worked on the same TVs and HDMI cables for almost 5 years without a problem until recently. One of them simply stopped outputting anything after the Tivo "Welcome.." screen. When the boot-up process advances to the "Almost There.." screen, the HDMI output signal simply goes off but the AV and Component signals keep working. Everything else works normally after that (except the HDMI signal). The System Status screen says HDMI is “not connected”.

I’ve swapped my two Tivos between rooms (every combination of TVs cables, etc) and the problem is clearly only with one of my Tivos. I inspected the HDMI connector physically outside and inside on the PC board and it looks good. Also, if it matters, I'm not using cable cards. I use only OTA and analog cable inputs on both.

Since the Welcome screen displays properly every time, it seems like the HDMI hardware must be working and it seems like a software or HDMI handshake problem.

I’ve searched the forum and saw other folks reporting similar problems but I didn’t find any solutions or explanations. I'm stumped - Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:51 PM   #2
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Check and see what the output is set at. After the start up screen it switchs from 480 to 1080, I had a similar problem when my receiver ,which I was using as a switch for the tivo and my dvd playe,r stopped passing the higher resolutions and would only work with 480.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:17 PM   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply. My Bedroom Tivo doesn't work on either TV but my Den Tivo (with all the same settings) works on both TVs.

However, following your tip, I tried all the video resolutions and none made the HDMI work. My fallback is to use the Component connections (as previous folks with this bug have done), but I hate giving up. There must be an answer to this.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #4
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Just another test

While the offending Tivo is connected with component cables, change the Tivo "Video output format" to a different resolution, then switch to HDMI to see if that resolution works. If you really want to complicate things, do this with each Tivo resolution, and each TV resolution setting.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:24 AM   #5
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Arrow No HDMI

I had the same problem with a Tivo HD. On the third 2 hour call with Tivo Tech Support after they had me try all kinds of connect/disconnect and settings with no luck, they admitted that the HD controls were not fully intrgrated and sometimes had this HDMI problem. They offered to trade for a refurb HD unit for more than the cost of a new Premier, with no transfer of my existing lifetime. The agent said I would be better buying a new Premier. I think you are out of luck with HDMI.:
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:14 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by bobbythegeek View Post
While the offending Tivo is connected with component cables, change the Tivo "Video output format" to a different resolution, then switch to HDMI to see if that resolution works. If you really want to complicate things, do this with each Tivo resolution, and each TV resolution setting.
I just tried them all and every combination of Tivo resolution and TV resolution results in No resolution of my problem (pardon the pun). Any other ideas?
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ffitzgerald39 View Post
I had the same problem with a Tivo HD. On the third 2 hour call with Tivo Tech Support after they had me try all kinds of connect/disconnect and settings with no luck, they admitted that the HD controls were not fully intrgrated and sometimes had this HDMI problem. They offered to trade for a refurb HD unit for more than the cost of a new Premier, with no transfer of my existing lifetime. The agent said I would be better buying a new Premier. I think you are out of luck with HDMI.:
It sounds like if Tivo support said "the HD controls were not fully intergrated and sometimes had this HDMI problem", that they admit to a HDMI configuration problem that their own software can't reconfigure. Maybe related to the HDCP DRM crap, which I don't fully understand. If that's the case, perhaps some clever hacker has a solution.

I've searched around some more and found many folks that "tossed the towel in" on their lost HDMI capability but none that resolved this problem. I also posted on Weaknees. I hate to give up on this.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by B1LL View Post
I just tried them all and every combination of Tivo resolution and TV resolution results in No resolution of my problem (pardon the pun). Any other ideas?
The only other suggestion I have would be to post an exhaustive description of the problem (no nock against your description already posted) and the testing steps taken along with a detailed description of each reasult. My guess: you'll figure out the problem while writing. Failing that maybe someone reading it will see something in the details.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:42 PM   #9
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If I have read his reply correctly he isnt getting the HDMI hand shake between the Tivo and the TV. Bill, have you tried a different HDMI cable?
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:52 AM   #10
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If I have read his reply correctly he isnt getting the HDMI hand shake between the Tivo and the TV. Bill, have you tried a different HDMI cable?
It sure seems like some kind of HDMI handshake problem. The "Welcome.." screen comes on (which seems to indicate a handshake happened) but as soon as the "Almost..." screen comes on, the HDMI connection dies (the TV displays "no signal"). Maybe this is when the HDCP protection kicks in. I don't fully understand HDMI and HDCP, but I'm searching and learning. (I do not see any sort of "rights violation" message on my TV).

Yes I tried several HDMI cables and even swapped the locations of my malfunctioning Bedroom Tivo with my Den Tivo. I tried every combo imaginable. The bug "travels" with my Bedroom Tivo. Everything else works.

I'm now wondering about swapping hard drives between my two Tivos to see what happens, but I think that may delete all recorded programs, which my wife would not be happy about.

I'm still stumped, but really hate to give up, so any other ideas are welcome.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:25 PM   #11
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When I had the same problem I also lost the picture when it went from the start up screen to the screen showing the living room. However as long as I had the output locked at 480 I did get a picture. Anything above that and nothing. My problem was caused by the circuit in my receiver that upgraded all the inputs to a 1080 hdmi output, and then sent it to the TV over a HDMI cable. The big problem with Tivo is that if you send it back it's a fixed cost and they send you a refurbished Tivo and dont fix yours and return. So you never know if the problem was with the Tivo or not.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:40 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by B1LL View Post
It sure seems like some kind of HDMI handshake problem. The "Welcome.." screen comes on (which seems to indicate a handshake happened) but as soon as the "Almost..." screen comes on, the HDMI connection dies (the TV displays "no signal"). Maybe this is when the HDCP protection kicks in. I don't fully understand HDMI and HDCP, but I'm searching and learning. (I do not see any sort of "rights violation" message on my TV).

Yes I tried several HDMI cables and even swapped the locations of my malfunctioning Bedroom Tivo with my Den Tivo. I tried every combo imaginable. The bug "travels" with my Bedroom Tivo. Everything else works.

I'm now wondering about swapping hard drives between my two Tivos to see what happens, but I think that may delete all recorded programs, which my wife would not be happy about.

I'm still stumped, but really hate to give up, so any other ideas are welcome.
Swapping hard drives is probably not the way to go.

Leave the "good" TiVo's hard drive where it belongs.

Do you have any other hard drives, 160GB or larger, lying around, or otherwise available for temporary duty?

I'm thinking download the HD image I've got in the image begging thread and load it onto a different drive and try that drive in the TiVo.

I'm also thinking it might not make a difference.

It could be the HDMI port or the attached electronics are going bad.

However, you could swap the power supplies between the 2 HDs and see what happens to both. Bad caps aren't always visible, and failing power supplies can produce all sorts of strange symptoms.

If it turns out the HDMI port is going bad but everything else is okay, let me know it you want to sell it cheap, I plan on avoiding HDMI like the plague.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:11 PM   #13
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Swapping hard drives is probably not the way to go.

Leave the "good" TiVo's hard drive where it belongs.

Do you have any other hard drives, 160GB or larger, lying around, or otherwise available for temporary duty?

I'm thinking download the HD image I've got in the image begging thread and load it onto a different drive and try that drive in the TiVo.

I'm also thinking it might not make a difference.

It could be the HDMI port or the attached electronics are going bad.

However, you could swap the power supplies between the 2 HDs and see what happens to both. Bad caps aren't always visible, and failing power supplies can produce all sorts of strange symptoms.

If it turns out the HDMI port is going bad but everything else is okay, let me know it you want to sell it cheap, I plan on avoiding HDMI like the plague.
Thanks - I like your idea of swapping power supplies. I'll try it tomorrow and post what I see. I also believe I have an old Hard Drive somewhere.

Following up on your flaky HDMI HW idea - I tried a old cheap long (12 ft) HDMI cable and the "Welcome" screen was still solid.

I probably won't ditch this unit if the HDMI HW is flaky. Instead, I'll live with Component. This is now more of an academic exercise because the "Welcome" screen is so solid, it sure seems like it has to be a SW problem.

Any other suggestions?
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #14
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Sorry man. I had this happen on both my HD's one with lifetime and one with the 6.95 MSD. I tried everything, it happened the same time. Spoke with support and after they tried to tell me it was a power spike...that only affected the hdmi ports on these two tivos, not the other premiers and would work on startup but would loose at the handshake. I finaly said, Im not an idiot, its a software issue and it probably doesnt like the some stupid DRM update from comcrap. So, switched to component, and grabed a Woot premiere...and after about an hour of "no love for a 10 year customer" they offered me the 9.99 for the 6.99 msd and I went with that.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:21 PM   #15
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Sorry man. I had this happen on both my HD's one with lifetime and one with the 6.95 MSD. I tried everything, it happened the same time. Spoke with support and after they tried to tell me it was a power spike...that only affected the hdmi ports on these two tivos, not the other premiers and would work on startup but would loose at the handshake. I finaly said, Im not an idiot, its a software issue and it probably doesnt like the some stupid DRM update from comcrap. So, switched to component, and grabed a Woot premiere...and after about an hour of "no love for a 10 year customer" they offered me the 9.99 for the 6.99 msd and I went with that.
Let me see if I understand.

You had two S3 HDs and both developed the same problem at the same time?

Now you have a Premiere for $9.99 per month in return for giving up the $6.99 per month on one of the HDs?

Are you still using either HD?
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:15 PM   #16
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Sorry man. I had this happen on both my HD's one with lifetime and one with the 6.95 MSD. I tried everything, it happened the same time. Spoke with support and after they tried to tell me it was a power spike...that only affected the hdmi ports on these two tivos, not the other premiers and would work on startup but would loose at the handshake. I finaly said, Im not an idiot, its a software issue and it probably doesnt like the some stupid DRM update from comcrap. So, switched to component, and grabed a Woot premiere...and after about an hour of "no love for a 10 year customer" they offered me the 9.99 for the 6.99 msd and I went with that.
Thanks for the bad news. The obvious difference between our situations is that one of my units is happy and the other is not even though both have identical OTA and analog cable input signals. It also seems unlikely that a DRM update would come in through the analog cable signal.

Tivo's "Surge Story" sounds like BS - I would expect the HDMI chips to have decent surge protection since they are made for connections between devices where static discharges are common. I also didn't touch a thing before if broke.

One other item that points to DRM is that my cable company is in the process of changing their equipment. They sent me a letter that the analog signal will be eliminated soon and they are going all digital. Their digital-analog adapter won't work on Tivo, so I have to buy two cable cards and pay them about $30 per month more than the free basic analog now included with my HOA.

One question - you said that you lost your signal "at the handshake" - When does the handshake occur? Right after the "Welcome" screen?
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:38 PM   #17
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I can live with Component video, but I'm still bugged by this failure, so I tried swapping power supplies between my two identical Tivo HD units and the HDMI problem stayed with the motherboard - but got worse - The HDMI output didn't even display during the "Welcome.." screen after the swap but did before the swap.

I swapped the power supplies back and the HDMI "Welcome.." screen still doesn't work, which seems to be pointing at a bad HDMI circuit.

It still seems strange the way the HDMI abruptly failed, so I thought about swapping drives between the units to rule out a SW or configuration cause of this problem. Can anyone advise if swapping drives will cause a loss of my recorded shows.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:26 AM   #18
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I can live with Component video, but I'm still bugged by this failure, so I tried swapping power supplies between my two identical Tivo HD units and the HDMI problem stayed with the motherboard - but got worse - The HDMI output didn't even display during the "Welcome.." screen after the swap but did before the swap.

I swapped the power supplies back and the HDMI "Welcome.." screen still doesn't work, which seems to be pointing at a bad HDMI circuit.

It still seems strange the way the HDMI abruptly failed, so I thought about swapping drives between the units to rule out a SW or configuration cause of this problem. Can anyone advise if swapping drives will cause a loss of my recorded shows.
YES

So don't do it.

Besides, you don't test a suspect motherboard with a suspect drive (and by that I mean, in this instance, a drive you suspect may have some of it's software scrambled). You want to eliminate variables, not multiply them by each other.

Go here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...53#post9291653

where somebody saved me having to search for my own post, for HD images.

Install to another drive and try that.


Although HDMI and especially HDCP are the spawn of Satan, it's also possible that after running those S3 HDs for 5 years you have a power supply that's starting to go bad and another one that's starting to go worse.

Or maybe it's the HDMI port on that one mobo going bad.

Take the power supply from the problem TiVo and put it in the other one and see if it brings any problems with it.

I'd tell you which capacitors to replace just on GP, but there are at least 2 different designs used for HD power supplies and I've only physically had my hands on one of them.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:54 AM   #19
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Take the power supply from the problem TiVo and put it in the other one and see if it brings any problems with it.

I'd tell you which capacitors to replace just on GP, but there are at least 2 different designs used for HD power supplies and I've only physically had my hands on one of them.
That's exactly what I did, swapped power supplies twice, and no problem "traveled" with the power supplies, so it sure seems like it's the HDMI port on one mobo going bad.

Thanks for the warning about losing shows - I won't swap my drives. Thanks for the image file link. When I find another drive, I'll try it.

My two power supplies do look vastly different than each other. I carefully inspected all the caps for swelling on both and they all looked OK.

With either supply in it, one of my mobo's HDMI now is 100% off, including during the "Welcome.." screen, but AV and Component are fine (I have all 3 cables sets connected).

Last edited by B1LL : 10-07-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #20
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I had the same problem. After moving my Tivo HD to another room the HDMI would not work. I tried everything. Finally I figured out that the HDMI socket is loose. If I held the HDMI cord between my thumb and finger and put upward pressure on the rear of the plug (which puts downward pressure on the pins) it worked. As soon as I let go it lost the signal. it is very sensitive. I had to put a small block of wood under the cable to keep upward pressure on it. Not an ideal solution but it works.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #21
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I had the same problem. After moving my Tivo HD to another room the HDMI would not work. I tried everything. Finally I figured out that the HDMI socket is loose. If I held the HDMI cord between my thumb and finger and put upward pressure on the rear of the plug (which puts downward pressure on the pins) it worked. As soon as I let go it lost the signal. it is very sensitive. I had to put a small block of wood under the cable to keep upward pressure on it. Not an ideal solution but it works.
Thanks for the tip. I'm out of town for Christmas but next week, I'll be back at the bedside of "the patient" TiVo that has been running on component cables since my posting above. I've searched far and wide on the Internet and tried everything I could imagine (but not what you suggested).

The problem you describe fits all the symptoms and the swapping I've done. Can you tell if the problem is the PC board-to-connector solder connections or the connector pins inside the connector?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:36 AM   #22
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I just started suffering from this same issue on a Tivo HD.

I also figured out that if I hold the cable in the right spot, it will work some of the time, but very spotty.

I ended up going component video and optical audio to get it up and running.

Keep us posted if you find a solution.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:03 PM   #23
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I just started suffering from this same issue on a Tivo HD.

I also figured out that if I hold the cable in the right spot, it will work some of the time, but very spotty.

I ended up going component video and optical audio to get it up and running.

Keep us posted if you find a solution.
Unfortunately, this is one of my "perpetual back-burner" projects because (in order of importance); 1) my wife is not asking me to fix it, 2) the "work-around" isn't costing me money, 3) the cables are out-of-sight and not taunting me, and 4) email alerts of posts to this thread are infrequent.

I'm hoping someone will chime in on this thread that has a more urgent need to figure out what's up with this (what seems to be) mechanical connection problem. Perhaps that someone will have a TV lacking Component inputs.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:12 PM   #24
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SERIES 3 HD HDMI not working

Any other suggestions as my series 3 HD HDMI port just quite working? I have read the thread and no one seems to have a real fix except using the component cable. Any other suggestions?
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:48 PM   #25
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Any other suggestions as my series 3 HD HDMI port just quite working? I have read the thread and no one seems to have a real fix except using the component cable. Any other suggestions?
Does carefully moving the HDMI connector around make it work?

My hunch is it's either a flakey connection where the HDMI connector is soldered to the mobo or a flakey connection problem inside the connector itself. Pulling off the case and carefully pressing in various spots may narrow it down.

I've searched far and wide on the Internet and haven't found anyone that nailed this problem.
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