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Old 09-12-2012, 01:03 PM   #1
wkearney99
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Does reboot require networking?

I've got a pair of Tivo HD units that were just moved. We're renting a house while our old one is torn down and a new one built. One of them was hanging as the "few minutes more" screen and would only boot when an ethernet connection was hooked up. The other one seems to be stuck in a reboot loop, jumping back to 'powering up' after showing the 'few minutes more' message for a few seconds.

Both of these units have been working fine. Both back at the old house and here at the new one, when setup on some boxes temporarily. They only now show problems when I unplugged them (while nothing was recording) to move them into the furniture that just got delivered.

So, does the Tivo *require* the network in order to boot?

And what's the prescribed troubleshooting process on the reboot loop? Pop the case and check for cables, and bulging caps? Or is there something I can do from the remote to debug it?
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:55 PM   #2
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Tivo does not require a network connection to boot.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:15 PM   #3
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Curiously enough, after about a half-hour the reboot loop one finally came up. The other one came to life 2 minutes after connecting ethernet to it. This after being on the 'few minutes more' screen for at least 15 minutes. Both are now working.

But is there a debug or error log I could check to see if there were drive issues that need resolving?

Otherwise I suppose it's time to pickup two replacement 2TB drives and copy everything over while it's still accessible.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #4
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Curiously enough, after about a half-hour the reboot loop one finally came up. The other one came to life 2 minutes after connecting ethernet to it. This after being on the 'few minutes more' screen for at least 15 minutes. Both are now working.

But is there a debug or error log I could check to see if there were drive issues that need resolving?

Otherwise I suppose it's time to pickup two replacement 2TB drives and copy everything over while it's still accessible.
If you don't want to take the drives out, hook them to a computer, and run the manufacturers diagnostics, you can run kickstart 54.

You might want to open the TiVos up and check all the connections to make sure they are tight and visually inspect the power supplies to see if there are any bulging caps.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:17 AM   #5
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My TivoHD unit only seems to boot when the ethernet connection is connected (wired). Maybe it's just a bug in the software or something, but my experience has been the same as yours.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #6
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My TivoHD unit only seems to boot when the ethernet connection is connected (wired). Maybe it's just a bug in the software or something, but my experience has been the same as yours.
It's not a bug, it's a coincidence. The ethernet connection has nothing to do with a Tivo booting up.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
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It's not a bug, it's a coincidence. The ethernet connection has nothing to do with a Tivo booting up.
Unless, and this is a very, very long shot, somehow a faulty ground is being completed by connecting the Ethernet cable.

But any time an S2 or S3 is acting funny, suspect "capacitor plague" in the power supply.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:48 PM   #8
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Unless, and this is a very, very long shot, somehow a faulty ground is being completed by connecting the Ethernet cable.
Hmmm, you may be on to something there. This is a rental house, one we're living in while ours is being demolished and a new one built. There's a mish-mash of outlets; some old two prong while others with the ground socket. There's some new romex into the old box, so they could be wired properly. But it's highly likely some don't have a 'real' ground in them.

Another wrinkle is all Tivo are plugged into 350W APC battery backups. Just enough to keep them running during the annoyingly frequent dips in power we get around here. In the old house the batteries covered it long enough for the generator to kick in. We don't have one in the rental (he types just as the lights blinked...)

Anyway, I'll recheck the wiring once I dig out my electrical tools. I've got a socket tester in there... somewhere...
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:33 AM   #9
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Hmmm, you may be on to something there. This is a rental house, one we're living in while ours is being demolished and a new one built. There's a mish-mash of outlets; some old two prong while others with the ground socket. There's some new romex into the old box, so they could be wired properly. But it's highly likely some don't have a 'real' ground in them.

Another wrinkle is all Tivo are plugged into 350W APC battery backups. Just enough to keep them running during the annoyingly frequent dips in power we get around here. In the old house the batteries covered it long enough for the generator to kick in. We don't have one in the rental (he types just as the lights blinked...)

Anyway, I'll recheck the wiring once I dig out my electrical tools. I've got a socket tester in there... somewhere...

I really didn't properly emphasize how long of a long shot I meant.

Actually I meant some kind of ground problem in the TiVo itself.

Did I mention that this explanation is extremely unlikely to be the reason for the problem and that you should first suspect almost anything and everything else short of an actual voodoo curse?

The Tivo should be able to boot connected to nothing (no antenna or cable, nothing in the Ethernet jack or either USB port, no cable cards, no audio or video equipment--just because you can't see that it's booted doesn't mean it hasn't--nothing) except for someplace to plug in the AC cord, and that someplace doesn't have to be "grounded" to anything as long as the correct number of electrons run up one side of the power cord and back down the other and change direction about 60 times per second, so it could be an inverter connected to a stand alone car battery, and the TiVo should still boot.

It shouldn't need a network connection to boot successfully.


Pick up another UPS for the computer and copy those drives to other drives just to be on the safe side.

Then run the manufacturer's long test on the drives.

(you're supposed to have already run it on the new drives before using them--when it comes to hard drives you can't trust anyone anymore)

In that new house, put in the capability to handle more amperage than you expect to need--if you're planning 200 Amp service, change it to 400 so it's there down the road if you need it--and twice as many outlets as you think you'll need being fed by twice as many circuit breakers.

And run lots of conduit for non-power uses, like TV cable, wired Ethernet, remote speakers, things that haven't even been invented yet, et cetera.

It doesn't have to be metal, maybe not even the gray stuff. Ask the local inspector/code office if you can use ENT, the ribbed blue stuff often called smurf pipe. And use the next larger diameter from what you think you'll need.

In 10 or 20 years, you or the then current owners will thank me.

And design the house so you have a stretch of driveway that's level and big enough to change a tire on, and set things up so that groceries can be carried straight from the car to the kitchen and garbage straight from the kitchen to wherever the garbage cans are outside.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:42 AM   #10
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I really didn't properly emphasize how long of a long shot I meant.

Actually I meant some kind of ground problem in the TiVo itself.

Did I mention that this explanation is extremely unlikely to be the reason for the problem and that you should first suspect almost anything and everything else short of an actual voodoo curse?

The Tivo should be able to boot connected to nothing (no antenna or cable, nothing in the Ethernet jack or either USB port, no cable cards, no audio or video equipment--just because you can't see that it's booted doesn't mean it hasn't--nothing) except for someplace to plug in the AC cord, and that someplace doesn't have to be "grounded" to anything as long as the correct number of electrons run up one side of the power cord and back down the other and change direction about 60 times per second, so it could be an inverter connected to a stand alone car battery, and the TiVo should still boot.

It shouldn't need a network connection to boot successfully.


Pick up another UPS for the computer and copy those drives to other drives just to be on the safe side.

Then run the manufacturer's long test on the drives.

(you're supposed to have already run it on the new drives before using them--when it comes to hard drives you can't trust anyone anymore)

In that new house, put in the capability to handle more amperage than you expect to need--if you're planning 200 Amp service, change it to 400 so it's there down the road if you need it--and twice as many outlets as you think you'll need being fed by twice as many circuit breakers.

And run lots of conduit for non-power uses, like TV cable, wired Ethernet, remote speakers, things that haven't even been invented yet, et cetera.

It doesn't have to be metal, maybe not even the gray stuff. Ask the local inspector/code office if you can use ENT, the ribbed blue stuff often called smurf pipe. And use the next larger diameter from what you think you'll need.

In 10 or 20 years, you or the then current owners will thank me.

And design the house so you have a stretch of driveway that's level and big enough to change a tire on, and set things up so that groceries can be carried straight from the car to the kitchen and garbage straight from the kitchen to wherever the garbage cans are outside.
All good points regarding the house. This is why we've spent 9 months with an architect fine-tuning it. Just about every possible nit's been picked, including all the ones you mention.

As for ground, well, it wouldn't make much difference on the Tivo as it's plug doesn't use a ground lug. So nevermind.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:06 AM   #11
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All good points regarding the house. This is why we've spent 9 months with an architect fine-tuning it. Just about every possible nit's been picked, including all the ones you mention.

As for ground, well, it wouldn't make much difference on the Tivo as it's plug doesn't use a ground lug. So nevermind.
I'm not saying a funky ground system at the house couldn't cause other problems with A/V equipment, hum, interference, et cetera, just that it wouldn't make the difference in whether the TiVo boots or not.

Since Ethernet is supposed to be balanced twisted pairs, none of the wires involved should be grounded anywhere unless you're running sheilded CAT5 or 6, but the TiVo jack isn't set up to take advantage of that

After you long test the new drives and copy the old drives to the new drives and long test the old drives, put them back in the TiVos and run KS 58 and see if that helps, 'cause it seems the TiVo is having to do a lot of housekeeping during the boot process.

Are you using tuning adapters because of Switched Digital Video?
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:29 AM   #12
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Are you using tuning adapters because of Switched Digital Video?
Nope, single M-card with FIOS.
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