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Old 09-12-2012, 08:58 PM   #31
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Didn't hate it and will add a SP, but didn't think it was that great either. I think I am too cynical of these shows now after years of flop after flop. (Alcatraz, FF, TN, The Event, Bionic Woman, etc..)
Jericho.

The dialog was very much like it was written by the Hollywood hack "choose your own adventure from these cliche's" method.

"No time to talk. Listen carefully...":
...

"Put down your gun!"
"Just leave and leave us alone."

Does that ever work?

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I hope that she has some other item that they were talking about, or the writers are just jerking our chains to build up the mystery of what the H is going on.
Or like with Alcatraz (miserable) and even Breaking Bad (excellent) the writers have the haziest of ideas how the story will go and count on figuring it out as they go along.

Prediction: It gonna turn out that Giancarlo's Captain is not such a bad guy. So far he hasn't directly killed anybody and he ordered the end to the shootout.

The kid will remain nasty, but his weakness will be how he's smitten by Ms. Tank Top.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #32
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I know that to watch most fiction I have to have a "willing suspension of disbelief" and I could use it for the removal of electricity. But this show is pushing it with presence of fire but no steam engines. I mean a large part of first industrial revolution (no pun intended) was powered by steam. Also water power was used extensively before electricity yet there were no signs of water powered mills even when there were nice dams already in place.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:43 PM   #33
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JJ Abrams was on Today. He said writers never know how it will end up until they see how it plays out. He said they do know the story of what's behind the power failure.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:06 PM   #34
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I know that to watch most fiction I have to have a "willing suspension of disbelief" and I could use it for the removal of electricity. But this show is pushing it with presence of fire but no steam engines. I mean a large part of first industrial revolution (no pun intended) was powered by steam. Also water power was used extensively before electricity yet there were no signs of water powered mills even when there were nice dams already in place.
I agree, if you can have fires, hot soup, how do combustion and steam motors stop working?
I think the writers were more worried about taking our modern world and it's people to a pre-industrial revolution one where all of physics is broken, than thinking about if any of it makes sense with the physics of their new world. If it was just electricity then the cars wouldn't have powered down on the freeway, also the planes turbines would have kept spinning so no falling tubes of death falling down on the suburbs. I think I'm going to have issues with this show but SP remains. I'll try not to complain too loudly on these forums.

Imagine if the soldiers rolled into the town with one of these (and horses), I think it would have been way cooler.

Steam Powered Car

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:32 PM   #35
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That would explain the airplane falling vertically in a flat spin...momentum has also been cancelled out!
That plane did fall wrong. But there was a lot of momentum to the projectiles at the village fight. An arrow knocked a charging man backwards!

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Prediction: It gonna turn out that Giancarlo's Captain is not such a bad guy. So far he hasn't directly killed anybody and he ordered the end to the shootout.
No, he ended the fight by shooting a bunch of people down.


And the Google guy should be thinner and tougher after 15 lean years.

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Old 09-14-2012, 08:31 PM   #36
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If it was just electricity then the cars wouldn't have powered down on the freeway, also the planes turbines would have kept spinning so no falling tubes of death falling down on the suburbs.
A car will not run without electricity, nor will a jet liner fly without electricity. The only exception to the car might be a diesel, but even there modern diesels are controlled by engine computers, just like the fuel is pumped by electric fuel pumps on jet airliners, even the ones that still don't use modern electric run avionics. On a lot of the newer planes, the avionics use electrically powered hydraulic actuators to move the rudder, elevator, etc. Fly by wire, and that requires electricity.

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Old 09-14-2012, 08:39 PM   #37
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If it was just electricity then the cars wouldn't have powered down on the freeway, also the planes turbines would have kept spinning so no falling tubes of death falling down on the suburbs.
Well modern cars and trucks need electricity to run the computer which controls the engine. Old cars need electricity to power the spark plugs, but old trucks with diesel engines should have kept running however they would be a bear to start without electric starters. Jet engines also should have kept running however the avionics to control the plane depend on electricity.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:36 AM   #38
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I think modern guns work just fine, reference Gus' gun which appeared to be a Desert Eagle or something.

I'm thinking that after 15 years all the manufactured ammo is rare or scarce, so they use breach loaded guns because it's easy to hand mfg ammo.

Just a guess though.
There are some pretty big stockpiles out there. They made mention of Monroe having control of leftover military resources ("tanks, planes...") so that would probably include a fair bit of ammo as well. Only rationale I can come up with is that the militia isn't "regular army", so they don't get the good guns (but then, why wouldn't he send his best troops after such an important target?).

Even in civilian hands there ought to be enough to go around. My brother works with a nutjob "prepper" who cashed in his retirement funds to buy hundreds of thousands of rounds for his farm --enough to shoot every man, woman, and child in the surrounding counties 5 times each?! And that's just one nut out of many (apparently the guy got the 5 rounds per inhabitant rule from a website).

Speaking of which: if the dad knew this was (or even could be) coming, why didn't he prepare better beforehand? He, and to some extent his wife, were obviously in on the conspiracy ahead of time (wifey knew what he was talking about when he said "it's happening"). Yet the show implied that he just bought some groceries and started filling bathtubs. If he knew something that huge was likely to happen, he ought to have stockpiling like mad and making other arrangements as well. Even if he was trying to keep it on the down-low, he should have been able to amass enough supplies over time that he wouldn't be so panicked over one bathtub-full of water and some extra ramen noodles.

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So if the power is out everywhere, how can the amulet allow things to work locally? Where is that power coming from for the computer, for instance? It's a sure bet that after 15 years the generators aren't spinning anymore.

Dave
A massive E/M field capable of disrupting electrical power (including batteries) over a wide area would probably be capable of supplying power as well. A better question would be: if the electro-chemical processes in a simple battery don't work, how the heck do people work? We're just a bundle of electro-chemical processes ourselves...
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:13 AM   #39
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Watched it last night and it didn't grab me the way LOST did for instance. I'll leave the SP for now. Also, the uncle's fighting abilities were way over the top.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:41 AM   #40
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I'm not an expert on planes, but I kind of doubt jet liners would just fall from the sky without electricity. I would think they would need more redundancies than that.

Still, why no combustion or steam engines?
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:09 PM   #41
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Still, why no combustion or steam engines?
I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I hold out hope that they've thought this out beyond "Wouldn't it be cool if the lights went out and planes crashed from the sky?" There's no evidence that they have, but so far there's no evidence that they haven't (us not understanding after one episode without an explanation is not evidence of anything).
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:31 PM   #42
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Is/will it be a free download on Amazon? Will check later.
It's not on Amazon at least yet. However the Pilot is available for FREE download on iTunes currently.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #43
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I hold out hope that they've thought this out beyond "Wouldn't it be cool if the lights went out and planes crashed from the sky?" There's no evidence that they have, but so far there's no evidence that they haven't (us not understanding after one episode without an explanation is not evidence of anything).
There is no direct evidence that they haven't thought it out, but there is circumstantial evidence -- the fact that no one here has been able to come up with a good explanation (and I don't mean that it has to be rigorously correct, just remotely consistent with the fantasy) suggests that there likely is no good explanation possible. Whatever explanation they eventually give is likely to be full of holes.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:45 PM   #44
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There is no direct evidence that they haven't thought it out, but there is circumstantial evidence -- the fact that no one here has been able to come up with a good explanation (and I don't mean that it has to be rigorously correct, just remotely consistent with the fantasy) suggests that there likely is no good explanation possible. Whatever explanation they eventually give is likely to be full of holes.
That may be.

Or it may be that their science adviser is smarter and more knowledgeable than us.

I'm willing to wait and see.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:54 PM   #45
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Or it may be that their science adviser is smarter and more knowledgeable than us.
It has nothing to do with a science adviser. There is no possible scientific explanation that can fit with what has been shown. As I said, any possible explanation would be fantasy. The only question is whether it will be consistent with itself, or full of holes.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:14 PM   #46
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It has nothing to do with a science adviser. There is no possible scientific explanation that can fit with what has been shown. As I said, any possible explanation would be fantasy. The only question is whether it will be consistent with itself, or full of holes.
JJ Abrams usually likes to throw in some supernatural elements.
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:46 PM   #47
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Aliens or God--must be 1 or the other.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:28 PM   #48
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There is no direct evidence that they haven't thought it out, but there is circumstantial evidence -- the fact that no one here has been able to come up with a good explanation (and I don't mean that it has to be rigorously correct, just remotely consistent with the fantasy) suggests that there likely is no good explanation possible. Whatever explanation they eventually give is likely to be full of holes.
Science, schmience. It's all just theory, you elitist!

Remember the Titanic-sized holes in Alcatraz. This turkey already has bigger ones.

They really are pushing the "girl with a bow" angle.

BTW, another cliche is the "just when one of the overwhelming army gets the drop on our hero, the bad guy gets shot by the smirking off-screen cast member." IAIRC they did that twice in about a 2 minute span.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:01 PM   #49
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They really are pushing the "girl with a bow" angle.
Yeah but it is a crossbow with a hand crank, so she's a sissy.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:59 PM   #50
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I'm not an expert on planes, but I kind of doubt jet liners would just fall from the sky without electricity. I would think they would need more redundancies than that.
Older plane's flight control systems are electromechanical that is electric motors power hydraulic systems to operate the flight control surfaces. With more modern planes the flight control surfaces are operated directly by electric motors. Then the latest planes are fly by wire which means in truth the controls the pilot uses don't directly control any of the flight surfaces, but tell a computer what the pilot wants done and the computer actually controls the plane. Now I assume they have redundant sources of electricity, redundant motors and redundant computers. But in all cases without any electricity the pilot loses control of the plane.

So I can buy without good sources of electricity jet liners fall from the skies. Now smaller gas powered plans would lose power when the spark plugs stop working but should be able to glide to the ground since the pilot controls have cables to the control surfaces and work fine without electricity.

But I do have a hard time thinking of a reason for them to not use steam power and especially not use water power. During the industrial revolution water power was used in a lot of places.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:04 PM   #51
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Re steam power.


We've seen one episode.

Give it time.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:23 PM   #52
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Science, schmience. It's all just theory, you elitist!
No, no, no! Act'lly I'm an elidist, defi'ly not an elitist.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:30 PM   #53
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I hope it is internally consistent. What if the "laws" of physics have just changed? I am thinking of the ideal gas law, PV=nRT. What if R, the gas constant, has changed, or is no longer a constant? All steam engines, whether powered by wood, coal, gas, fission, etc, rely on behavior of gasses under pressure, as do diesel and gas internal combustion engines.

If laws of electromagnetism also changed, perhaps electric motors fail too. I am thinking specifically of electromagnetic induction. A change to Maxwell's equations would wreak havoc.

Changes to Newton's laws of motion could explain planes falling out of the sky and perhaps even limiting the speed of travel. KE=0.5mv^2. What if the modifiers to mv changed radically? Same thing with potential energy. What if the gravitational "constant" wasn't constant, but dependent on other factors?

Yeah, I know this couldn't happen, but it could be done consistent internally. It'd be cool if they started writing the series after coming up with a new set of laws. (I think we can ignore relativity and quantum mechanics. Newton's laws were good for a long time, and still are most of the time).

[I haven't watched the pilot yet, so speculation is based on scenarios I've read in this thread]
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:05 PM   #54
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Yeah, I know this couldn't happen, but it could be done consistent internally.
Not really. Such changes would have much wider reaching effects than just causing certain technologies to fail.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #55
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Not really. Such changes would have much wider reaching effects than just causing certain technologies to fail.
That's true. Heck, just the human body alone would probably cease to function.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:26 PM   #56
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The best explanation I can think of is that it is some sort of targeted nanomachine plague -- specifically designed to target the technologies that have failed.

However, that explanation does not explain how fast it happened. Self-reproducing nanomachines that feed on electricity (etc.) would probably take months to spread over the world. Certainly not in less than a minute like we saw. Perhaps that could be explained by saying the nanomachines were spread dormant and later activated by a light-speed signal. But during the months when the dormant nanomachines were spreading, many people would have surely detected them.

Also, they would be visible with microscopes, so surely someone would have figured out the cause fairly quickly, even if they could not do anything to stop it.

Whatever the cause is, it has to be basically invisible, able to spread around the world at hypersonic speeds, and specifically targeted to certain technologies. I think the writers have really written themselves into a hole they can never get out of. Well, barring acts of god, as stellie93 suggested.

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Old 09-15-2012, 11:23 PM   #57
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I'll betcha JJ Abrams and the writers are watching these discussions to find the best explanation so they can write it up.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:29 AM   #58
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I'll betcha JJ Abrams and the writers are watching these discussions to find the best explanation so they can write it up.
I doubt they care.. 99% of the viewers don't obsess on the interwebs about such details, however if there are no answers then eventually viewers will get frustrated like us.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:51 PM   #59
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power failure

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JJ Abrams was on Today. He said writers never know how it will end up until they see how it plays out. He said they do know the story of what's behind the power failure.
That story will be a tricky one. Batteries don't work, but turning chemical energy into charge separation (electricity) works just fine in human nervous systems ...
Along with steam engines, they'll need to explain the absence of diesel.

There's also this question: If the failure of electricity caused airplanes to start pinwheeling, why are their running lights still on? Answer: because otherwise the audience couldn't see them!

Good science fiction doesn't penalize the audience for actually thinking about the questions it brings up, so Revolution is shooting for passable at best. At the moment it's looking to do that by being a gamish of Jericho, Hunger Games, and probably Lost.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:22 PM   #60
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There was a somewhat disturbing interview with showrunner Eric Kripke on Blastr where he goes on at some length about his approach to the show...and not once mentions what happened.

My hopes for the intelligence of the show just dropped considerably...
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