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Old 09-08-2012, 02:16 PM   #151
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The software update makes sense. I could see new software landing on Premiere early October for testers with a general release late October. Then, the Mini coming out in November.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #152
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Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like the promise to get M-cards working on a Series 3.

/TiVo : I know we said we were going to get the TiVo Mini working with Premiere DVRs, but unforseen circumstances are preventing us from doing so.

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Old 09-08-2012, 07:38 PM   #153
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That's not going to happen. The M-card on S3 issue was a last minute change to the spec which rendered the hardware incapable of supporting them.

They've been developing the Mini for at least 6 months and knew the whole time they were targeting the Premiere platform. Plus something almost like the Mini already exists in the wild called the Preview. Only difference is the Mini wont have the built in tuner and CableCARD slot for live TV. Other then that they do the same thing so implementing it shouldn't be that hard. In fact now that I'm saying that maybe the Mini will work with the current software. I'm pretty sure the Preview and the Q combination use the same software we're using now.

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Old 09-08-2012, 08:32 PM   #154
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That's not going to happen. The M-card on S3 issue was a last minute change to the spec which rendered the hardware incapable of supporting them.

They've been developing the Mini for at least 6 months and knew the whole time they were targeting the Premiere platform. Plus something almost like the Mini already exists in the wild called the Preview. Only difference is the Mini wont have the built in tuner and CableCARD slot for live TV. Other then that they do the same thing so implementing it shouldn't be that hard. In fact now that I'm saying that maybe the Mini will work with the current software. I'm pretty sure the Preview and the Q combination use the same software we're using now.

Dan
We know from RCN chatter that quite a few updates to the Preview have been requested to improve the usability of the device. Its my understanding that the Preview can't manage the recordings on the Q so I think we are looking at a pretty significant "multi-room" upgrade for the series 4 platform. I know there was some discussion about letting the Preview pause live TV by allowing it to use the associated Q. I'm not sure whether or not this will be included in this release since it has a number of "mini-esque" ramifications (e.g., locking a tuner, etc.).
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:32 PM   #155
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That is the first time I've heard of any date applied to the Mini from a CSR but its consistent with the "Fall Update" that @tivodesign has indicated on twitter.

We were talking about the Stream and how far in advance they usually got trained on new products. Since they hadn't been trained on the Mini yet (other than knowing what it was in concept), I just extrapolated.

Realistically, it can't be much later than that and be available for the holiday season.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:02 PM   #156
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We were talking about the Stream and how far in advance they usually got trained on new products. Since they hadn't been trained on the Mini yet (other than knowing what it was in concept), I just extrapolated.

Realistically, it can't be much later than that and be available for the holiday season.
I really need a couple of Mini's in my setup so it can't come soon enough!
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:00 PM   #157
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I really need a couple of Mini's in my setup so it can't come soon enough!
My wife reminds me that I don't NEED anything any more, I just WANT it.

(I failed miserably this afternoon trying to explain why I "needed" to hook up my new TiVo Stream. At least I had the good sense to do the dishes before we had the conversation.)

Not exactly sure what I will do with a Mini, but I will be one of the first in line to buy one - I have to do my part as a shareholder.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:16 PM   #158
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My wife reminds me that I don't NEED anything any more, I just WANT it.

(I failed miserably this afternoon trying to explain why I "needed" to hook up my new TiVo Stream. At least I had the good sense to do the dishes before we had the conversation.)

Not exactly sure what I will do with a Mini, but I will be one of the first in line to buy one - I have to do my part as a shareholder.
LOL. I'm not married so I don't have that problem. I'm moving into my girlfriends FiOS household where she has 4 TVs so my two Premieres aren't going to cut it. I will probably shift to my one Elite/XL4 with 3 Minis and sell my lifetime Premiere to offset the cost of the Minis. It's also my duty as a shareholder!
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:10 PM   #159
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LOL. I'm not married so I don't have that problem. I'm moving into my girlfriends FiOS household where she has 4 TVs so my two Premieres aren't going to cut it. I will probably shift to my one Elite/XL4 with 3 Minis and sell my lifetime Premiere to offset the cost of the Minis. It's also my duty as a shareholder!
u'll love the moca setup, fios speed is crazy fast for these boxes. its just night and day
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #160
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Has anyone seen any information on what features (in addition to Tivo functionality) will be available on the Tivo Mini? Specifically Amazon, Netflix, Pandora, etc. I've only seen generic claims, but nothing specific.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:45 PM   #161
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I thought they had mentioned that it would be the same streaming content providers that are available on the premiere?

And since Amazon streaming isn't on the premiere, I would guess it wouldn't work on the mini, unless they have a new amazon app to go with the Mini release.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:14 PM   #162
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I thought they had mentioned that it would be the same streaming content providers that are available on the premiere?

And since Amazon streaming isn't on the premiere, I would guess it wouldn't work on the mini, unless they have a new amazon app to go with the Mini release.

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Old 09-10-2012, 06:11 PM   #163
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I thought they had mentioned that it would be the same streaming content providers that are available on the premiere?

And since Amazon streaming isn't on the premiere, I would guess it wouldn't work on the mini, unless they have a new amazon app to go with the Mini release.
They could still allow you to pick something from Amazon, have it start downloading to the host TiVo and then start streaming that. I'm not sure if they're allowed to stream Amazon shows though. There might be some issue there.

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Old 09-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #164
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They could still allow you to pick something from Amazon, have it start downloading to the host TiVo and then start streaming that. I'm not sure if they're allowed to stream Amazon shows though. There might be some issue there.

Dan
The Premieres currently can't stream Amazon content between boxes. You get a red circle with a line through it next to the Amazon title. So I wouldn't expect the Mini to be able to either. But you never know. Maybe the Mini will be the catalyst to get Amazon streaming add to the Series 4 boxes. If that does happen I just hope there will still be an option to download a title.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:22 AM   #165
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Why would you need this is Amazon now Prime on the Tivo? The amazon application is so weak I never use it, but then again I have an xbox360 on the same tv.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #166
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I have 360s as well. But I can't say that I use my 360 for Amazon content. My first choice is always the TiVo since it has native resolution output. But that is only for content I purchase/rent from Amazon. For Amazon streaming content my Roku2 is my first choice.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:54 PM   #167
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Question - and maybe no one knows yet - does the mini require moca, or can it use ethernet too? I ask because I read in another thread that the standard 2 tuner premier doesn't have built in moca, but I get the impression that these will work with 2 tuner premiers at some point (not initially, 4 tuner only at first).

I plan to buy a mini when it comes out and wanna know if I need to either
1. do nothing, the mini and my premier will work as is over moca
2. run ethernet, if the mini can use it, or
3. get 3rd party moca adapters.

thanks
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #168
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Question - and maybe no one knows yet - does the mini require moca, or can it use ethernet too? I ask because I read in another thread that the standard 2 tuner premier doesn't have built in moca, but I get the impression that these will work with 2 tuner premiers at some point (not initially, 4 tuner only at first).

I plan to buy a mini when it comes out and wanna know if I need to either
1. do nothing, the mini and my premier will work as is over moca
2. run ethernet, if the mini can use it, or
3. get 3rd party moca adapters.

thanks
Thats a good question... If i had to guess... MOCA will be required for Tuner Stealing and ethernet only for streaming.. But i dont think we know for certain yet
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #169
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I'm certain all functionality will be available via Ethernet. But I don't actually know. It's just crazy to think otherwise.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:38 PM   #170
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Thats a good question... If i had to guess... MOCA will be required for Tuner Stealing and ethernet only for streaming.. But i dont think we know for certain yet
MOCA is just a network technology. The TiVo shouldn't care if it's connected via MOCA or Ethernet, they should work exactly the same. In fact if you had a wifi bridge or powerline bridge, or any other sort of bridge, they will all probably work provided they have enough bandwidth to sustain a watchable stream.

That's the cool thing about networking, IP is IP, no matter how it's transmitted.

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Old 09-13-2012, 11:26 PM   #171
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Question - and maybe no one knows yet - does the mini require moca, or can it use ethernet too? I ask because I read in another thread that the standard 2 tuner premier doesn't have built in moca, but I get the impression that these will work with 2 tuner premiers at some point (not initially, 4 tuner only at first).

I plan to buy a mini when it comes out and wanna know if I need to either
1. do nothing, the mini and my premier will work as is over moca
2. run ethernet, if the mini can use it, or
3. get 3rd party moca adapters.

thanks
It has an ethernet port for sure. I'd say no, moca is not mandatory. Ethernet will work if you prefer.

But I'm unsure... Which Tivos do you have?

If you want to setup a moca network:

If you have a 4-tuner box, then all you'll need is 1 moca adapter to connect between your modem and router to light up your house. The 4-tuner box and the Mini have it built-in, so they don't need individual adapters.

If all you have is a 2-tuner box, it is believed you technically won't able to setup the Mini at this point.

If you have both a 4-tuner AND 2-tuner box, then you can get a second moca adapter for the 2-tuner box if you WANT, but it's not necessary. But some kind of wired connection is ideal for any kind of box-to-box streaming.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #172
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Thats a good question... If i had to guess... MOCA will be required for Tuner Stealing and ethernet only for streaming.. But i dont think we know for certain yet
As Dan said, MoCA and Ethernet have nothing to do with how the software talks to a Tivo across the network via IP. Either would work.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:15 AM   #173
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MOCA is just a network technology. The TiVo shouldn't care if it's connected via MOCA or Ethernet, they should work exactly the same. In fact if you had a wifi bridge or powerline bridge, or any other sort of bridge, they will all probably work provided they have enough bandwidth to sustain a watchable stream.

That's the cool thing about networking, IP is IP, no matter how it's transmitted.

Dan
I am well aware of how ethernet and MOCA work.... The reason for my statement could be that Tivo may want to get out of the home consumer network issue game... Direct TV did the same thing. When they first started whole home DVR, it worked on DECA(there version of MOCA) and ethernet... when it launched to the public, you had to have DECA installed to use it... If they are going to require a P4 or XL4 at launch to set up a Mini.. There is no reason to think they may require that piece be MOCA
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:28 AM   #174
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The DirecTV situation is not comparable. They never supported Ethernet to begin with. TiVo has been networking with Ethernet for years. There is no reason for them to stop now.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:06 AM   #175
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The DirecTV situation is not comparable. They never supported Ethernet to begin with. TiVo has been networking with Ethernet for years. There is no reason for them to stop now.
.... Direct TV situation was not different.. Ethernet was used for well over 6 months for whole home before they did a full national roll out.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:17 AM   #176
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Question - and maybe no one knows yet - does the mini require moca, or can it use ethernet too? I ask because I read in another thread that the standard 2 tuner premier doesn't have built in moca, but I get the impression that these will work with 2 tuner premiers at some point (not initially, 4 tuner only at first).

I plan to buy a mini when it comes out and wanna know if I need to either
1. do nothing, the mini and my premier will work as is over moca
2. run ethernet, if the mini can use it, or
3. get 3rd party moca adapters.

thanks
From what I remember reading all functionality will avalible with either interface (moca or ethernet); but unlike a 4/XL4/Elite the Mini cannot act as an ethernet to moca bridge if both are connected.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #177
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There is no reason to think they may require that piece be MOCA
Exactly, so why are you speculating that they will? Tivo is not going to care what physical link layer you use to route IP packets from the Mini to the boxes, regardless of initial setup, tuner stealing etc. If it has both MoCA and Ethernet connections, either will work to support full functionality. Speculating otherwise is IMO silly, because nothing they've done this far has been that dumb.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #178
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Exactly, so why are you speculating that they will? Tivo is not going to care what physical link layer you use to route IP packets from the Mini to the boxes, regardless of initial setup, tuner stealing etc. If it has both MoCA and Ethernet connections, either will work to support full functionality. Speculating otherwise is IMO silly, because nothing they've done this far has been that dumb.

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Old 09-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #179
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From what I remember reading all functionality will avalible with either interface (moca or ethernet); but unlike a 4/XL4/Elite the Mini cannot act as an ethernet to moca bridge if both are connected.
That's exactly what I remember as well.

Plus TiVo already supports streaming via Ethernet TiVo to TiVo, and the Mini is basically just a diskless, tunerless, TiVo so why would it be limited to Moca only?

It sounds like DirecTV did it to further lock customers into their ecosystem. TiVo doesn't have the same incentives. They want to sell products. I could see them maybe locking it to Moca only for one of their cable partners if they requested it, but there is no reason to do that on a consumer product.

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Old 09-16-2012, 02:21 AM   #180
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.... Direct TV situation was not different.. Ethernet was used for well over 6 months for whole home before they did a full national roll out.
What happened in a beta doesn't count.

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It sounds like DirecTV did it to further lock customers into their ecosystem.
Other possible reasons:

1. Avoiding network-related support calls. (This could be the major reason, if they dropped it after the beta.)

2. Making it harder to intercept the content.

I remember, back in the HR10-250 days, hearing that the reason DirecTV never enabled network capabilities for DirecTiVos was that they wanted to do networking over coax, only, for these reasons.
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