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Old 09-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by stellie93 View Post
Yeah, I thought they kept saying she was part time lord or something--is that because she was conceived on the Tardis, or do I have it wrong? (probably that)
You are correct. I think someone mentioned earlier that it was because she was conceived on the TARDIS.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:29 PM   #122
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Rory
She was conceived on the Tardis, which is why she's special.
Aha...there's the post that mentioned it.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #123
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So if the Doctor brought lots of couples aboard the Tardis and they all had babies, he could repopulate the universe with half breed time lords?
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #124
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Amy was special. It wouldn't work with other people. Or am mistaken?

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Old 09-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by robojerk View Post
She was conceived on the Tardis, which is why she's special.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Amy was special. It wouldn't work with other people. Or am mistaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellie93 View Post
So if the Doctor brought lots of couples aboard the Tardis and they all had babies, he could repopulate the universe with half breed time lords?
It might be a combination of the fact that Amy grew up next to a crack in space & time, being exposed to whatever a crack in space & time radiates, plus conceiving a child on the Tardis, is what makes Melody Pond River Song so special.

It might also explain why she can't have children. Maybe she was only able to conceive by being on the Tardis. Perhaps they'll end their companion status by getting pregnant again? But then again I highly doubt this, I think I read somewhere...
Spoiler:
that it's speculated that their finale story ends badly for them.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:35 PM   #126
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Spoiler:
Well, the Doctor does have a time machine. Maybe he will meet her before she got Dalek-ized. And find that her name is not really Oswin. But that would also require that Oswin had her memories of the Doctor wiped (since she did not recognize him), which is possible but makes this theory less likely.
Are we allowed to speculate about the new companion yet without spoilerizing? Well, just in case...

Spoiler:
Who's to say she is the same character. The actresses that played Martha Jones and Amy Pond were both in episodes as other characters before they were companions. Admittedly this was a more spotlighted role, but Martha was on screen quite a bit in her pre-Martha role and she died

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:55 PM   #127
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Are we allowed to speculate about the new companion yet without spoilerizing? Well, just in case...

Spoiler:
Who's to say she is the same character. The actresses that played Martha Jones and Amy Pond were both in episodes as other characters before they were companions. Admittedly this was a more spotlighted role, but Martha was on screen quite a bit in her pre-Martha role and she died
Spoiler:
The main problem with that argument is that the circumstances are completely different. In Freema's (Martha) case, when she played her first role, she was just some actress; there was never any inkling that she would possibly be cast as a companion some point in the future. Presumably, in this most recent instance, she was already cast as the next companion when she started this episode. The "coincidence" in this case is completely deliberate, so they're probably going to pay it off with something more than the semi-retcon of Martha being a Patty-Dukeian cousin of the person from the earlier episode.

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:27 PM   #128
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Spoiler:
The main problem with that argument is that the circumstances are completely different. In Freema's (Martha) case, when she played her first role, she was just some actress; there was never any inkling that she would possibly be cast as a companion some point in the future. Presumably, in this most recent instance, she was already cast as the next companion when she started this episode. The "coincidence" in this case is completely deliberate, so they're probably going to pay it off with something more than the semi-retcon of Martha being a Patty-Dukeian cousin of the person from the earlier episode.
Yea,
Spoiler:
I'm hoping for something with a little more gravitas

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Old 09-07-2012, 06:26 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by busyba View Post
Spoiler:
The main problem with that argument is that the circumstances are completely different. In Freema's (Martha) case, when she played her first role, she was just some actress; there was never any inkling that she would possibly be cast as a companion some point in the future. Presumably, in this most recent instance, she was already cast as the next companion when she started this episode. The "coincidence" in this case is completely deliberate, so they're probably going to pay it off with something more than the semi-retcon of Martha being a Patty-Dukeian cousin of the person from the earlier episode.
Spoiler:
Yeah, given Moffat's penchant for planning out his seasons (he may wing it from year to year, but his seasons are TIGHT), there's no way he would have used the same actor in two roles by accident. And there's no way he would have made such a big deal out of concealing the identity of the actor in this episode (publicly bragging about it) if it wasn't significant.

He's up to something. Can't wait to see what.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #130
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I enjoyed the episode a lot, probably since I didn't see the ending coming at all and that's likely because as far as I know, the Daleks have never actually converted a human into a full blown Dalek before. They reluctantly used human DNA to splice together Daleks (which were considered impure), but never converted a human into a Dalek. I think Moffat confused the Daleks for the Cybermen.

Still despite that somewhat major flaw, I enjoyed the episode.

Oh and I thought this was TCF, not Reddit.
This bothered me since I read it. Something didn't sit right. And I finally found it. Davros used humans to create Imperial Daleks in Revelations of the Daleks (Colin Baker). It is not new nor a flaw.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #131
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The speculation about conception and the TARDIS has it sounding like a Tokyo Love Hotel. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Doctor Who themed one there already.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:37 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by ACoolDude View Post
Are we allowed to speculate about the new companion yet without spoilerizing? Well, just in case...

Spoiler:
Who's to say she is the same character
<snip>
Spoiler:
The name of the new companion is known to be Clara Oswin. In this episode she was called Oswin.

More things to speculate about - is Clara going to be cleverer than the Doctor?

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Old 09-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #133
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This bothered me since I read it. Something didn't sit right. And I finally found it. Davros used humans to create Imperial Daleks in Revelations of the Daleks (Colin Baker). It is not new nor a flaw.
The notion of a Dalek prison sorta bothered me, the Daleks don't take prisoners (even though a Dalek prison is also old - but that prison could better be described as a slave labour camp).

What bothered me most was the blurring of the line between Cybermen and Daleks - and the planet and the imagined reality being a tad like the Library.

But I give a few marks for the misdirection about the milk. I thought the reason why the soufflé was a disaster was because there wasn't any milk and Oswin didn't want to tell the Doctor her soufflé was a disaster.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:55 PM   #134
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The notion of a Dalek prison sorta bothered me, the Daleks don't take prisoners (even though a Dalek prison is also old - but that prison could better be described as a slave labour camp).

What bothered me most was the blurring of the line between Cybermen and Daleks - and the planet and the imagined reality being a tad like the Library.

But I give a few marks for the misdirection about the milk. I thought the reason why the soufflé was a disaster was because there wasn't any milk and Oswin didn't want to tell the Doctor her soufflé was a disaster.
Where did they blur the line between the Daleks and the Cybermen?
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #135
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Where did they blur the line between the Daleks and the Cybermen?
Turning humans into Daleks, removing the love etc.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #136
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Turning humans into Daleks, removing the love etc.
That is always part of Daleks.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:11 PM   #137
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The speculation about conception and the TARDIS has it sounding like a Tokyo Love Hotel. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Doctor Who themed one there already.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #138
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That is always part of Daleks.
Daleks are Skaroians in armoured vehicles.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #139
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"No, I swear -- it's bigger on the inside."
Made me laugh.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:31 PM   #140
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Daleks are Skaroians in armoured vehicles.
They're Kaleds, not Skaroians.

Skaro was the home planet of the Kaleds (anagram of Dalek) and Dals (or Thals).
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:02 PM   #141
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They're Kaleds, not Skaroians.

Skaro was the home planet of the Kaleds (anagram of Dalek) and Dals (or Thals).
Who were humanoid. But the part about removing love has always been part of them.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:01 AM   #142
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They're Kaleds, not Skaroians.

Skaro was the home planet of the Kaleds (anagram of Dalek) and Dals (or Thals).
If you believe Americans, Brits, Homo sapiens, Homo erectus are not all also Earthings/Terraneans - fair enough.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:23 AM   #143
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Who were humanoid. But the part about removing love has always been part of them.
I do not think in the past they created more Daleks by removing love from humans, I think they were created without love, they were not bonded to metal (the head stalk).

Cybermen multiply by upgrading humans into Cybermen by removing love and other emotions and bonding them with metal.

Oswin was a special case in that she was fully converted to Dalek and wasn't bonded to a head stalk - but it does raise the question of how Daleks multiply - do they have genders, crawl out of their armored vehicles, corpulate and give birth?


(I did post the line was blurred, not Daleks became the same as Cybermen)
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:58 AM   #144
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I do not think in the past they created more Daleks by removing love from humans, I think they were created without love, they were not bonded to metal (the head stalk).

Cybermen multiply by upgrading humans into Cybermen by removing love and other emotions and bonding them with metal.

Oswin was a special case in that she was fully converted to Dalek and wasn't bonded to a head stalk - but it does raise the question of how Daleks multiply - do they have genders, crawl out of their armored vehicles, corpulate and give birth?

(I did post the line was blurred, not Daleks became the same as Cybermen)
You would be wrong. Davros created human Daleks in the old show because the Kaled Daleks were not loyal to him. They saw him as inferior. It is not new at all.

Both Cybernen and Daleks bond humanoids to metal and remove emotion. Daleks keep hate. Cybernen remove all. The big difference is their motives. Cybernen believe they are saving everyone from pain and frailty. Daleks want to rule. Even then, Davros created them to bring peace to the universe.

There is Dalek history reaching back to 1963 TV wise. I don't remember it all. However, I do know that the Kaleds were much like humans and they were bred to be how they are today. It was a reaction to degrading mutation from a nuclear war with the Thals. The removal of love et al, was chemical and, presumably still is or the genes gave mutated.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:28 AM   #145
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #146
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You would be wrong. Davros created human Daleks in the old show because the Kaled Daleks were not loyal to him. They saw him as inferior. It is not new at all.
Something which I have posted several times on the Internet is "there is nothing new under the sun".

But to add a tad of nuance - yes Davros has done all sort of stuff - I think there is a tad of difference between what he does and what common-or-garden Daleks do out in the field.

Quote:
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Both Cybernen and Daleks bond humanoids to metal and remove emotion. Daleks keep hate. Cybernen remove all. The big difference is their motives. Cybernen believe they are saving everyone from pain and frailty. Daleks want to rule. Even then, Davros created them to bring peace to the universe.

There is Dalek history reaching back to 1963 TV wise. I don't remember it all. However, I do know that the Kaleds were much like humans and they were bred to be how they are today. It was a reaction to degrading mutation from a nuclear war with the Thals. The removal of love et al, was chemical and, presumably still is or the genes gave mutated.
As it happens I have probably watched every surviving Doctor Who episode reaching back to 1963.

I am reasonably certain the Cybermen want to rule.

And at the risk of Godwinning the thread, Davros has always been a Nazi.

Last edited by pgogborn : 09-10-2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: typo, tidy tags
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:22 PM   #147
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Something which I have posted several times on the Internet is "there is nothing new under the sun".

But to add a tad of nuance - yes Davros has done all sort of stuff - I think there is a tad of difference between what he does and what common-or-garden Daleks do out in the field.

As it happens I have probably watched every surviving Doctor Who episode reaching back to 1963.

I am reasonably certain the Cybermen want to rule.

And at the risk of Godwinning the thread, Davros has always been a Nazi.
Garden variety Dalek? Insane Daleks kept in an asylum are garden variety Daleks? A few of them were from the battle where Davros created human Daleks, if i recall right. No idea if any were the human ones, though. If any survived. But Oswin was not turned into a Dalek by the "sane" ones on the ship but by the "insane" ones.

As for Cybermen ruling. Depend on the definition. They are ruling only because of uniformity. They don't make slaves. They make Cybermen. They are inclusive. While Davros stated he was doing the same when he created the Daleks, he was actually about power for himself. That continued to when he tried to destroy the universe a couple of years ago. The Cybermen are about peace through uniformity and a lack of all emotions. Daleks remain emotional and ambitious. Cybermen are about logic taken to a wild extreme. No emotion, no problems. Actually closer to Borg than Daleks.
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:24 PM   #148
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...And at the risk of Godwinning the thread, Davros has always been a Nazi.
Not Godwinning.

More than just being a Nazi, Davros was Hitler, an impure who demanded purity, but unlike Hitler, Davros' Aryan race rose up against him for being impure.
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