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Old 08-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #91
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I think you're the exception.

Dan
I have no problem with it. The TiVo mini will allow me to move the Premiere I have in the bedroom back into the living. It will then become an OTA only TiVo and I will use it to bring content with me to my GFs house. The Mini will go into my bedroom and I will save $3.99 in cable card fees. I have no issue giving up one of the tuners from my Elites. Now if I only had one Elite that might be a different story.

As long as the mini has a low monthly charge of say under $5 and a low price of say under $99 or an initial price of under $200 with no monthly price. I think I will be pleased with it.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #92
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So given that allocating zero tuners under "Allow Live TV on Other Devices" is an option it's even sillier to require 4-tuner unit as host during Mini setup.
I think Mini should default to not having Live TV unless you configure to allow it - and the Mini can show a screen explaining how to do it when no tuners are allocated for that function. Under that setup then even if TiVo still requires 4-tuner units only for Live TV functionality that will still satisfy a lot more people.
That is a great suggestion. It makes me wonder if this decision is an attempt to drive early adopters to upgrade to the XL4/4. The Mini is optimized for MSOs delivering 4 or 6 tuner gateway devices like the Q or Pace XG1 (6 tuner).
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:11 AM   #93
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Premiere & Premiere XL have OTA tuners and you will be able to stream from them.
Tivo has stated otherwise. At least until some 'future' update is available.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #94
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It makes no sense that the Mini will not be able to stream from any available Tivo S4, but I guess we will have to wait and see what they ship, software-wise. The only restriction should be on live tuner allocation (zero or one, as linked above), at least until they catch up to every other whole-home DVR solution.

So if they can stream from any Tivo S4, they are not 'useless' for OTA.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:46 AM   #95
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Tivo has stated otherwise. At least until some 'future' update is available.
Read megazone's article:

Specifically:
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I did confirm that the will not pair with the Premiere or Premiere XL at launch, only the Premiere XL4 (aka the Premiere Q for MSOs). So no Live TV on your IP STB if thatís all you have. And this isnít a Ďsoftí thing where it isnít officially supported but you can make it work, the software is just not there to support it on those units. However, the IP STB is a standard Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) client. It can stream content of of any Premiere unit in the home. So it does work with the Premiere and Premiere XL in as far as youíll be able to stream your recordings via MRS. My understanding is that you will not be able to set recordings on the Premiere or Premiere XL, etc., as that requires the pairing that can only be done with the XL4. Basically whatever you can do with MRS between Premieres today you can do from the IP STB, but thatís all Ė for now at least. (Iím going to double check to make sure thatís accurate.)

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Old 08-27-2012, 10:29 AM   #96
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Item 4 there is not entirely true... It was confirmed that the Mini will be able to stream from a regular premiere, just not at release

More support for my point: it is confusing. Tivo needs to get back to making things easier and less confusing.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:30 AM   #97
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I think you are making this way to complicated.
People on this board are dedicated Tivo users that spend time to understand the differences and capabilities of Tivo products. Do you really think the average customer will take the time to decipher what streams to what and the limitations of the products? I do not. Tivo needs to simplify.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:00 AM   #98
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I disagree. Its confusing to US because people are speculating on what it may or may not do, how much it will cost, how it may be upgradable, and how it compares to the cableco units.

Upon release, we will have a TIVO (of different flavors), an extender to possibly avoid a second Tivo, and a streamer to send to a remote device.

It will be much easier to market the reality of these three products than to wrangle in the imagination of those who like to speculate as to functionality, cost, ect.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:50 AM   #99
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I think you're the exception.

Dan
This will work for us in our bedroom scenario. I think the instances where that 4th tuner is actually actually capturing programming I asked for (non-suggestions) is quite low.

Waiting to see pricing/subscription(?) info. I also have an idle S3 that could act in this role. The tiny/wall mountable mini unit is appealing vs having to find location for the S3 unit in our bedroom.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #100
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I disagree. Its confusing to US because people are speculating on what it may or may not do, how much it will cost, how it may be upgradable, and how it compares to the cableco units.

Upon release, we will have a TIVO (of different flavors), an extender to possibly avoid a second Tivo, and a streamer to send to a remote device.

It will be much easier to market the reality of these three products than to wrangle in the imagination of those who like to speculate as to functionality, cost, ect.

I disagree.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:59 PM   #101
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So WHEN will Tivo finally announce the release date and pricing (including whether it will have a monthly fee)? It seems like forever since this thing was first announced as coming this fall, and we still don't know those critical pieces of information.

Personally, I have no interest if the mini has a monthly fee. My wife is never giving up her Charter DVR in the main room, so I'm looking at whether to drop my extra Charter DVRs in other rooms, which are rolled into the same Charter DVR Fee and thus cost me only extra outlet fees ($7 each) by buying a Tivo and a couple minis. I'm not shelling out for a TIVO 4 or whatever it's called now, plus lifetime, plus the Minis, plus a cable card fee, PLUS fees on each mini too. The Tivo solution would wind up costing nearly as much on a monthly basis on top of the big up front expense to buy the main box (with lifetime) and minis. In fact, without lifetime on the main box (which drives up the up front cost), the monthly Tivo costs would actually be higher than 3 extra Charter DVRs, especially if the minis have a monthly fee too.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #102
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My wife is never giving up her Charter DVR in the main room
Sorry to hear that. An unclimbable mountain called the WAF.


@mr_smits - of course you disagree. That is why I posted here in the first place! We will just have to see what happens.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #103
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So WHEN will Tivo finally announce the release date and pricing (including whether it will have a monthly fee)? It seems like forever since this thing was first announced as coming this fall, and we still don't know those critical pieces of information.
Tivo's quarterly earnings conference call is on Wednesday, so we may get some more info about the Mini then. Whether that includes price and date, I don't know. But anything is better than nothing.

It looks like the Stream is coming first; their marketing is ramping up for that presently. It's likely we'll get specific details about that this week too.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:08 PM   #104
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I'm betting the Mini requires a software update to the TiVo itself*, which means it probably wont be released until after the fall software update.

* The reason I say this is because based on what's been said it sounds like the Mini is more then just a streamer, it also has the ability to manage the remote TiVo. AFAIK that ability isn't in the current software which is why I think it's going to require an update.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:40 AM   #105
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It makes no sense that the Mini will not be able to stream from any available Tivo S4, but I guess we will have to wait and see what they ship, software-wise. The only restriction should be on live tuner allocation (zero or one, as linked above), at least until they catch up to every other whole-home DVR solution.

So if they can stream from any Tivo S4, they are not 'useless' for OTA.
Tivo has stated that the mini will REQUIRE a 4 tuner series 4 tivo. This precludes OTA. Simple as that. 4 tuner series 4 Tivos do not support OTA so therefore the mini will not either.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:47 AM   #106
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I have two (2 tuner) Premieres connected to HDTVs on our main floor. I then have a finished basement with 2 bedrooms and a large rec area. These basically have just Comcast digital adapters that don't get the full digital lineup compared to upstairs.

For one of these basement rooms, I was looking into possibly getting an older Series 3 and then trying to lifetime it after a few months for $99 (that I have seen others here do). However, depending on the cost, this "mini" box might be a much better solution.

I figured out that buying & lifetiming an older S3 box after 6 months will still cost me close to $300. Not to mention that there will STILL be an ongoing Comcast cable card charge for me of $8/month. And there will be some additional nice features missing from the S3 box that my Premieres have.

Having a mini would be great for my needs as the basement TVs are not frequently used. Mainly for occasional guests for weekends and holidays. Therefore, allowing it to borrow a tuner from one of the main floor Premieres would work sufficiently. Ideally, it would be great to see a mini automatically be able to sense whether the TV is on or not & then get the tuner as needed based on this, but I'm not holding my breathe on that feature being available. If anything & until the software allows this, I could simply plug & unplug the mini in the basement as needed. This way in theory, the tuner would then be released back to the main TiVo Premiere.

Also, I would avoid the $8/month cable card fee that Comcast would charge me. I would maybe even be willing to pay the same monthly price for a mini that Comcast charges if I put another DTA down there ($2/month). I would not only get more digital channels via the mini, but the ability to have HD quality if desired, Netflix, Hulu, & recorded content. Seems like a win-win for my situation.

Hell, I might even be willing to upgrade one of my monthly Premieres to one of the newer Premiere 4s ($250) I see in order to also get this "whole home" solution. I guess now all is needed is for the damn thing to come out & how much will it be? :-)
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:18 AM   #107
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Sorry to hear that. An unclimbable mountain called the WAF.


@mr_smits - of course you disagree. That is why I posted here in the first place! We will just have to see what happens.
Unclimbable is an understatement, and DVR choices are just the tip of the iceburg! She does love having On Demand through Charter, which is why she insists on having its DVR.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:00 AM   #108
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Tivo has stated that the mini will REQUIRE a 4 tuner series 4 tivo. This precludes OTA. Simple as that. 4 tuner series 4 Tivos do not support OTA so therefore the mini will not either.
And Kevin posted megazone's info from Tivo which says that it can stream from any S4.

As I said, we will have to wait and see what it actually does. Knowing Tivo, you're probably right and it will only work with a 4-tuner box.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:08 PM   #109
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I just went back and re-read these very informative posts from MegaZone on the Mini.

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2012/05/2...am-and-ip-stb/

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2012/05/2...ail-this-year/

It is worthwhile reading the Comments as well.

You will have the option of giving up zero, one, or two tuners on your Elite/XL4/Premiere 4 during setup. Those tuners will form a "pool" of live tuners for the Mini IP STB's on the network.
Exactly, and since I don't care about LiveTV I'm provisionally interested (depending on cost) in getting a Mini and configuring it for 0 tuners (MRS only) so I can view recorded shows from my Elite on my other TV.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:40 AM   #110
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And Kevin posted megazone's info from Tivo which says that it can stream from any S4.

As I said, we will have to wait and see what it actually does. Knowing Tivo, you're probably right and it will only work with a 4-tuner box.
Megazone and Tivo have both stated that the mini will require a 4 tuner tivo for setup. Even if you dedicate ZERO tuners. An OTA household will not have a 4 tuner tivo for setup, regardless of what it could stream after being setup.

Hopefully tivo will eventually fix the situation and allow the mini to support OTA households.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:02 AM   #111
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I would LOVE to be able to dump ALL my Comcrap cable equipment. I'm hoping these "minis" will make it one step closer. Due to cable card shenanigans that Comcast has pulled with me, I also dumped my one and only Comcast digital box so I don't get any true OnDemand material from them (but actually don't terribly miss it either).

I know getting Comcast OnDemand material on Premieres is in the works for all Comcast customers (Boston and San Fran right now), but when it becomes available in my area (Atlanta), I am hoping maybe these minis might allow access to it as well. I know, wishful thinking, but one can dream can't they? :-)

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Old 09-01-2012, 09:46 PM   #112
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I know this will not likely to happen, but I wish Tivo would just license the Mini feature to Roku/Apple/Google/etc (even Boxee) so I can avoid having another dedicated box.

Maybe Stream would do almost everything I want (except for Airplay) though I don't need another tuner.

If Mini does work as expected, I would get rid of my TivoHDs one at a time. I wonder if their price would take that into account, but many of us on this forum are non-typical Tivo users with multiple boxes...
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #113
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I know this will not likely to happen, but I wish Tivo would just license the Mini feature to Roku/Apple/Google/etc (even Boxee) so I can avoid having another dedicated box.

Maybe Stream would do almost everything I want (except for Airplay) though I don't need another tuner.

If Mini does work as expected, I would get rid of my TivoHDs one at a time. I wonder if their price would take that into account, but many of us on this forum are non-typical Tivo users with multiple boxes...
I will go out on a limb and say that I fully expect this to happen. TiVo wants to control the user experience. They don't care about the hardware. The question in my mind is whether or not this will come to retail? I think it will but it still is unknown at this point. I will point you to TiVo's August 29th conference call to substantiate my prediction.

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James C. Goss - Barrington Research Associates, Inc., Research Division
Okay. And then lastly, the -- could you talk about the configuration involving TiVo without a set-top box? Exactly how would that be implemented? Would it be built into the TV somehow? And I know it's your software rather than hardware solution, but how exactly would it transpire?

Naveen Chopra - Senior Vice President of Corporate Development & Strategy
Yes, at the end of the day, what is the consistent part of that is there's a cloud component of it that -- where all of the intelligence and the information about users and their preferences and all the metadata is stored. Our intent is to make that available to a growing number of devices over time. So it will start with things like, obviously, iOS devices, Android devices, the browser. As you get into things like connected TVs, game consoles, et cetera, those tend to be more proprietary platforms. But we do intend over time to address as many of those as possible.

Thomas S. Rogers - Chief Executive Officer, President and Director
Just to note on that last point that the Scandinavian operator mentioned earlier, Com Hem, has put in place an arrangement with us for us to deliver a full IPTV cloud-based solution that is not dependent on the set-top as part of that arrangement. So this is something we are actively engaged in for operators today who choose to go to that level of IPTV delivery.

Naveen Chopra - Senior Vice President of Corporate Development & Strategy
Yes, and I guess just to crystallize it, I mean, the reason someone like Com Hem is so enthusiastic about that is they believe there is a growing number of subscribers who want access to pay television content on a mobile device, on a PC, potentially on a connected TV that has some sort of browser. And this is a very efficient way for them to deliver the full complement of that service with a great user interface without having to deal with the operational complexity of getting a set-top box into the home.
I can also direct you to the Jason Wong interview where he gives some good insight as well --> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=482103
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:00 PM   #114
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If this is what it sounds like I am very interested. I would be in the market for a 4-tuner+lifetime+3 (or 4) minis. Of course, so far TiVo's repeated delivery below expectations has me doubting. If I can move everything in my house off of Comcast boxes for under 2 grand this Christmas, I probably will.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:05 PM   #115
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RCN has a few Minis in their lab

This is the first confirmation that I know of the Mini in the hands of a 3rd party.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r274...eam-Chicago-Il

Based on this timing I think we are looking at November at the earliest for a launch.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:14 AM   #116
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I hope it's much sooner.
RCN software versions have been behind the retail software, so maybe the mini will be as well. And will show up in the retail channel before RCN offers it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:15 AM   #117
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I cant understand why Tivo wont at the very least warn consumers that the 2 tuner Tivo's wont support the upcoming Tivo Mini. Doing so would increase sales of 4 Tuner Tivos and prevent consumer backlash for those just purchasing 2 tuner Tivos now and buying mini later
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:44 AM   #118
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I cant understand why Tivo wont at the very least warn consumers that the 2 tuner Tivo's wont support the upcoming Tivo Mini. Doing so would increase sales of 4 Tuner Tivos and prevent consumer backlash for those just purchasing 2 tuner Tivos now and buying mini later
Because the 2 Tuner will support the Mini. Both as a Streaming device and it will allow it to Lock a tuner... Just not at launch
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #119
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I cant understand why Tivo wont at the very least warn consumers that the 2 tuner Tivo's wont support the upcoming Tivo Mini.
The only reason we know anything is because TiVo told us.

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Doing so would increase sales of 4 Tuner Tivos and prevent consumer backlash for those just purchasing 2 tuner Tivos now and buying mini later
New Stuff doesn't always support old stuff - just the way the tech world works, also it may support the Premiere at some point, I seem to remember something about that being said at some point - but my memory is a little fuzzy.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:07 AM   #120
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The only reason we know anything is because TiVo told us.

New Stuff doesn't always support old stuff - just the way the tech world works, also it may support the Premiere at some point, I seem to remember something about that being said at some point - but my memory is a little fuzzy.
It was discussed and confirmed with the Mini was first announced several months back in a thread in the Coffee House Forum. I cant find that thread now. it was confirmed that the Mini would support the Regular Premiere from a Streaming perspective. It would also support the tuner locking just not at original release. a software update would be released to support that
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