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Old 08-21-2012, 09:10 PM   #61
tvoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post
References:
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KFBB
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KRTV
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_indoor...as_directional


You're in a mountain area and most likely have multi-path issues with signals bouncing off hills/mountains.

The Premier TiVo is the weak link in your setup, and I heard rumors that the Premier TiVo doesn't do as well with multi-path issues.

Rabbit ear antennas are not particularly directional and can pick up shadow signals bouncing off of trees/hill/mountains.


Is your attic antenna directional?
Yes, my monoprice antenna is directional. But maybe there's a MORE highly directional antenna out there that I should try?

Other than trying different antennas, is there anything else that can be done if the issue is multi-path as suggested?
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:00 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post
References:
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KFBB
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KRTV
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_indoor...as_directional


I know its frustrating because you get good reception on other devices and its just the TiVo that's problematic. So here I am pissing in the wind with some thoughts......

Looks like KFBB and KRTV are on different towers but at the same site. Your direct line of site may be slightly different for the two channels.

KFBB broadcasts uses a non-directional antenna(make: SCA), KRTV broadcast on a directional antenna(make: DIE).

You're in a mountain area and most likely have multi-path issues with signals bouncing off hills/mountains.

The Premier TiVo is the weak link in your setup, and I heard rumors that the Premier TiVo doesn't do as well with multi-path issues.

Rabbit ear antennas are not particularly directional and can pick up shadow signals bouncing off of trees/hill/mountains.

Is your attic antenna directional?

The Tivo is your problem, so because of location/Premier TiVo/antenna/multi-path issues you may need a directional antenna pointed directly at the towers for your new TiVo to work.
Rabbit ears tend to be front and back directional, and not so good on the sides.

So if they're freestanding and not built into something, you can slowly rotate the base and see from which direction a station comes in best.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:15 AM   #63
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If its a multi-path issue then antenna type, antenna aim and antenna location/placement seem to be the best solutions. I know you tried moving the TiVo to different locations and you were still unsuccessful. You may just be in the twilight zone of signal reception for your Premier to work (Strong signal and multi-path).

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/fixes.html

http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-...ses-cures.html
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:36 AM   #64
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You could try using a signal splitter in reverse fashion and combine your attic antenna and rabbit ears. Maybe the combine signal of the two antennas will give your TiVo something to lock in on for that one problematic station.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #65
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Did you ever get the engineering department of that station involved?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:46 AM   #66
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Did you ever get the engineering department of that station involved?
Please, contact the station.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:51 AM   #67
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Please, contact the station.
I have tried, via email, twice so far. First email was to the engineering department only. Second one was also addressed to the station manager.

Still have not had a reply.... Hate to apply too much pressure - they really don't HAVE to help me afterall.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #68
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I have tried, via email, twice so far. First email was to the engineering department only. Second one was also addressed to the station manager.

Still have not had a reply.... Hate to apply too much pressure - they really don't HAVE to help me afterall.
What, they don't have a telephone?

They don't have to help you, but one would think that they'd want as many viewers as possible
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:03 PM   #69
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What, they don't have a telephone?

They don't have to help you, but one would think that they'd want as many viewers as possible
The 28th of "last month" it was suggested the first call should likely be the "station engineer"! I'd guess you could have had the situation under control maybe weeks ago!
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:40 PM   #70
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The TV station in question might help you out of the kindness of their heart but since you get good reception on this channel without the TiVo they will not likely take any responsibility.
Multipath might be a good place to lay the blame but it won’t likely lead to a solution. This station doesn’t broadcast a circularly polarized signal so a circularly polarized receiving antenna (very scarce) will not eliminate multi-path problems.
From this point, I am describing what came from personal experience with, not multi-path, but multi-signal. This was done at the direction of a knowledgeable Comcast “chief engineer” who came to the rescue.
The problem (multipath or multisignal) is solely with the TiVo; two units show identical symptoms. Does this indicate a design problem? It doesn’t seem likely but what else can you go on. How about going after potential grounding or screening problems. With the transmitter tower only about a mile away this can lead to multiple signals getting into the TiVo from several sources the antenna lead ground shield, RCA audio cables(especially with broken ground connections), failing F-connectors, or bad TiVo cabinet grounding.
Antenna lead: The connection to the TiVo is via coax. At the antenna connect immediately to the best shielded coax you can find. RG-58/59 are OUT; “quad shield” is in. Run a single coax (no connectors) from the antenna to the TiVo or else replace all of the F-type connectors in this run. They go bad, noticeable especially at the lower frequency channels. When they go bad your coax shield can pick up its own signal in competition to that on the center conductor. At the TiVo add a “ground block” to the coax and make a good electrical connection to the TiVo cabinet from the block. Ideally this block would go to a system dedicated ground rod (in the ground!).
TiVo ground: The TiVo line cord has no ground wire and you may want to add a ground wire from the coax grounding block to a dedicated (or house) ground, as well as to the TiVo cabinet. At this point you have accomplished something effectively close to the “paperclip” antenna, only more directional.
Disconnect all RCA audio cables for the TiVo at both ends of the cables. RCA cables can open at the shield connection and then they make a good antenna
Disconnect all other cables from the TV set except what is needed to operate with a TiVo video input signal.
Have you looked inside the TiVo box? If so, you may have reassembled the cover and lost a good connection on the shielding. Try again.
Have a go at the KFBB-TV signal strength. If all of this did not help, build a cage of copper window screening around the TiVo cabinet and ground it with the coax and TiVo.
Well, maybe.
Rabbit ear results aside, your antenna amp could be a big question mark. It can be overdriven and, if powered from a power supply at the TiVo, poorly grounded. The shield, outer conductor, can be picking up the KFBB signal. This is the "multi" in multi-signal.
Is your attic antenna grounded. A must at your short distance to the tower.

Last edited by mblloyd : 08-23-2012 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:09 AM   #71
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The TV station in question might help you out of the kindness of their heart but since you get good reception on this channel without the TiVo they will not likely take any responsibility.
AGREED! It's the reason I've went to this forum as many of you good people have actually wanted to help me.

Thanks a ton for all the hints mblloyd- I will give them a try over the next few weeks. Would like to try the box at a friend's house that is 30 miles away first though. He uses a traditional outdoor antenna and receives these channels OK through his TV.

I very well might be wrong, but I suspect (only a hypothesis here!) that I will still not receive the troublesome station. I think there is something inherently wrong with the tivo trying to tune these particular adjacent vhf frequencies at comparable strengths. I sought input on a separate thread to see if anyone is receiving frequencies 7 and 8 under similar circumstances, and have not a positive reply yet. I think that this may be a very unique situation limited to the Great Falls, MT market and that my case has maybe brought a defect in the Tivo to light. I could very well be the first person trying to use a Tivo to receive these channels OTA in this market. They are not sold locally, and satellite/cable is quite prevalent here.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:20 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvoe View Post
I very well might be wrong, but I suspect (only a hypothesis here!) that I will still not receive the troublesome station. I think there is something inherently wrong with the tivo trying to tune these particular adjacent vhf frequencies at comparable strengths. I sought input on a separate thread to see if anyone is receiving frequencies 7 and 8 under similar circumstances, and have not a positive reply yet. I think that this may be a very unique situation limited to the Great Falls, MT market and that my case has maybe brought a defect in the Tivo to light. I could very well be the first person trying to use a Tivo to receive these channels OTA in this market. They are not sold locally, and satellite/cable is quite prevalent here.
In the old days, the FCC tried to avoid assigning adjacent channels in the same market because it was difficult to design steep enough filters to eliminate reception of the adjacent channel without distorting the waveform of the desired channel. I don't know whether that's still a problem with modern digital tuners, and I don't know what kind of spec the TiVo has for adjacent channel rejection. It would be interesting to know whether the TiVo can receive channel 7 in a market without channel 8 and vice versa.
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