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Old 08-03-2012, 09:50 AM   #31
jrtroo
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Call them now, and make sure to ask them to log your issue in their system. Then try an attenuator as a last ditch effort.

I would also document what you have done- this will help in working with TiVo and in the event a replacement unit has a similar issue.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:24 PM   #32
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Contact the station they may have a cut channel attenuator available for just this reason.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:39 PM   #33
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You say you don't know anyone near you that can bring another Tivo over to try. Is there any chance you could do the opposite -- take your Tivo somewhere else not so close to the transmitters? That would hopefully let you know if the problem was a too-strong signal or not.

I hope you figure this out -- problems like this surely can be frustrating, but if you can get it solved, you'll probably quickly forget all about the problems and just enjoy the Tivo.

[FWIW, I think the reason the Tivo XL4 (Elite) doesn't do OTA is because the box was targeted for MSOs, who would have no use for OTA.]
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #34
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I am surprised radio shack doesnt sell them.....
They did sell them, but it doesn't show in the current catalog anymore.

Part number 150-0578

I did find the Radio Shack part still for sale on Ebay.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:19 PM   #35
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You say you don't know anyone near you that can bring another Tivo over to try. Is there any chance you could do the opposite -- take your Tivo somewhere else not so close to the transmitters? That would hopefully let you know if the problem was a too-strong signal or not.]
Tried your suggestion - at least I gave it my first attempt. Went to my parent's house which is on the opposite side of the city and down in the valley, and got the exact same results with rabbit ears. They probably live 4 miles or so from the tv stations. Also with a paperclip, I actually received my good channels at 92-93% from their house (actually a little better than here on top of the hill near the transmitters), but the problematic channel again jumped between 5 and 20%.

Traveling 34 miles away tomorrow for work and thought I would tote my smaller TV and tivo with me to see what happens there. Problem is I know that many people who live in that small town have trouble getting any reception with just rabbit ears, so I might be looking at too weak of a signal instead. If by some miracle the channel did tune in from there, then I would be convinced that I need to be ordering some attenuators online.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #36
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Opinions please?

OK - part 2 of my testing is over:

34 miles away was too far, as I suspected. Could not pull in a signal from any station with just rabbit ears. Most people here use roof-top antennas for OTA. In a building on the second floor, I was able to get about 23% signal strength on the reliable stations, and the problem channel fluctuated between 0 and 20%. It does not "lock in" and stay at a particular strength no matter where I try this thing...

So I was hoping that tests out at this distance would confirm a need for attenuation, but no such luck. Now that I have tested with multiple antennae, in multiple parts of my house (including outside), in different parts of the city, and now out of town, and channel 5-1 still wigs out all over the place, I have to admit that I am quite skeptical that an attenuator is going to solve this. Anybody else agree with me? My gut just tells me that this Tivo's tuner is faulty somehow, but without getting my hands on another machine I will never be able to confirm that or convince the bull-headed engineers at Tivo of this. What do you all think?
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:01 PM   #37
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Now that I have tested with multiple antennae, in multiple parts of my house (including outside), in different parts of the city, and now out of town, and channel 5-1 still wigs out all over the place, I have to admit that I am quite skeptical that an attenuator is going to solve this. Anybody else agree with me? My gut just tells me that this Tivo's tuner is faulty somehow, but without getting my hands on another machine I will never be able to confirm that or convince the bull-headed engineers at Tivo of this. What do you all think?
Considering everything you've tried, I'm also skeptical that an attenuator will help, but it's a cheap thing to try if you can find one. The problem sounds like some kind of destructive interference caused by a reflection of the channel 5-1 signal from a nearby hill or building or something, but it seems unlikely that you would see the same problem at another location across town. You could call the station engineer to see if the two stations that share a tower have the same radiation pattern. IOW, do they have about the same effective radiated power in your direction.

The most damning evidence against the TiVo is that a TV connected to the same feed has no trouble receiving the problem channel. Because of that, it would be very interesting to try a different TiVo to see if it acts the same, although it's hard to imagine any mechanism that would make the TiVo's tuner act up on only one frequency.
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #38
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OK - part 2 of my testing is over:

34 miles away was too far, as I suspected. Could not pull in a signal from any station with just rabbit ears. Most people here use roof-top antennas for OTA. In a building on the second floor, I was able to get about 23% signal strength on the reliable stations, and the problem channel fluctuated between 0 and 20%. It does not "lock in" and stay at a particular strength no matter where I try this thing...

So I was hoping that tests out at this distance would confirm a need for attenuation, but no such luck. Now that I have tested with multiple antennae, in multiple parts of my house (including outside), in different parts of the city, and now out of town, and channel 5-1 still wigs out all over the place, I have to admit that I am quite skeptical that an attenuator is going to solve this. Anybody else agree with me? My gut just tells me that this Tivo's tuner is faulty somehow, but without getting my hands on another machine I will never be able to confirm that or convince the bull-headed engineers at Tivo of this. What do you all think?

I think you've confirmed the need for a new TiVo.

Something's keeping it from properly tuning and de-modulating that one channel, and that something almost absolutely has to be something internal to the TiVo.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:20 PM   #39
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I think you've confirmed the need for a new TiVo.

Something's keeping it from properly tuning and de-modulating that one channel, and that something almost absolutely has to be something internal to the TiVo.
I hope you're right. I finally convinced them of an exchange. Will arrive in the next few days and will report back.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:05 PM   #40
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I hope you're right. I finally convinced them of an exchange. Will arrive in the next few days and will report back.
OK - have to admit when I'm wrong. Received a new premier and I'm running into the same exact problem... I thought for sure it was the Tivo. So I'm back to troubleshooting. I'm convinced that I'm going to get this thing figured out.

Recall if you've only skimmed the thread - I am receiving one network (channels 3-1 and 3-2) just fine, but the other network (channels 5-1 and 5-2) which is broadcast at exactly the same distance and direction will not come in through the Tivo (although it does tune with other devices in the house). These channels are broadcast through true digital channels 7 and 8.

Here have been my latest tries: took my monoprice indoor/outdoor antenna and placed it in multiple locations/orientations in my attic. The troublesome channel will not sustain a signal strength above 25% - although interestingly enough every once in a while it will pop up to a 100 for a brief moment (just to irritate me?). Just disconnected my dish network today, so I tried attaching the monoprice antenna to the mast of the removed satellite dish. Pointed the directional antenna directly at the TV towers (which the top 1/4 or so is visible above my roofline from this location). Still no luck.

So back to a suggestion earlier in this thread? Do I try ordering some attenuators? I personally think the answer is no for a couple of reasons: when I turn the directional antenna 40 degrees or more away from the towers, even my good channels (which are broadcast right next to the other tower) drop in signal strength to the 40-60% range. Also the last Tivo technical support person I talked to said that if I were getting too much signal strength that it would give me reception problems while showing 100 on signal strength.

So anyone still think attenuators are something I should try? And why? If not, what are some of my other alternatives? Experimenting with actual antennas could be costly trial/error. What about inline interference filters? Amplifiers? (tried one already - didn't seem compatible with the monoprice antenna that already has its own amplifier)

Really could use some help here. Any suggestions or discussion is greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:37 PM   #41
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OK - have to admit when I'm wrong. Received a new premier and I'm running into the same exact problem... I thought for sure it was the Tivo. So I'm back to troubleshooting. I'm convinced that I'm going to get this thing figured out.

Recall if you've only skimmed the thread - I am receiving one network (channels 3-1 and 3-2) just fine, but the other network (channels 5-1 and 5-2) which is broadcast at exactly the same distance and direction will not come in through the Tivo (although it does tune with other devices in the house). These channels are broadcast through true digital channels 7 and 8.

Here have been my latest tries: took my monoprice indoor/outdoor antenna and placed it in multiple locations/orientations in my attic. The troublesome channel will not sustain a signal strength above 25% - although interestingly enough every once in a while it will pop up to a 100 for a brief moment (just to irritate me?). Just disconnected my dish network today, so I tried attaching the monoprice antenna to the mast of the removed satellite dish. Pointed the directional antenna directly at the TV towers (which the top 1/4 or so is visible above my roofline from this location). Still no luck.

So back to a suggestion earlier in this thread? Do I try ordering some attenuators? I personally think the answer is no for a couple of reasons: when I turn the directional antenna 40 degrees or more away from the towers, even my good channels (which are broadcast right next to the other tower) drop in signal strength to the 40-60% range. Also the last Tivo technical support person I talked to said that if I were getting too much signal strength that it would give me reception problems while showing 100 on signal strength.

So anyone still think attenuators are something I should try? And why? If not, what are some of my other alternatives? Experimenting with actual antennas could be costly trial/error. What about inline interference filters? Amplifiers? (tried one already - didn't seem compatible with the monoprice antenna that already has its own amplifier)

Really could use some help here. Any suggestions or discussion is greatly appreciated.
It's a royal pain, but try that direction antenna 45 degrees off of straight at the towers. Then try 90 degrees. Then keep going in increments of 45 degrees until you've come full circle.

That's mostly to eliminate the unlikely.

Then redo Guided Setup and give it a different zip code for an area where the problem channel is still available OTA, although the farther away the better perhaps, or maybe better yet, a zip code for an area of the country where an entirely different station is available on that same frequency.

If the good channel and the bad channel are only separated in frequency by the same amount that the old analog channels 8 and 9 were (6 MHz), there's almost no way it's a hardware problem, especially one that's also present in the replacement box.

So I'm thinking "software that runs the hardware" problem, and since this isn't happening to TiVo owners all over the country, I suspect the problem is in the software specific to your location.
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:34 PM   #42
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TV Fool Coverage Map

The attached graphic (if it posts correctly) shows the TV transmitter at the balloon and my house at the black hand-drawn asterisk. Note that the coverage is considered "very strong" by the color coding. This is why I'm hesitant in thinking that buying a better rooftop antenna is going to solve this problem...
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Old 08-16-2012, 11:51 PM   #43
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TV Fool chart

Now that I've figured out how to get graphics posted I thought I would also include the full data on the stations for people to scrutinize. KRTV and KUGF come through fine of the tivo, KFBB is the problematic channel. (Note, if I'm interpreting the power column correctly, that it is the strongest.)
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:01 AM   #44
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Only the TiVo has the problem.

Even in a different location the TiVo still has the problem.

Replacing the TiVo does not fix the problem.

So it's something common to both TiVos.

Something is keeping the TiVo from tuning the tuner to the right frequency I suspect.

Which is why I suggested the Zip Code lie as a troubleshooting technique.

If people all over the country couldn't get real channel 8 on their TiVos, we'd have heard about it by now, and TiVo would definitely have heard about it by now.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:22 AM   #45
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Something is keeping the TiVo from tuning the tuner to the right frequency I suspect.

Which is why I suggested the Zip Code lie as a troubleshooting technique.
To test if it's the zip code data that's preventing the station from being tuned, a full manual channel scan could be done. I have done this in the past on my Series 3 Tivos when physical or virtual channel assignments or lineups have changed but Tribune has not yet provided updated data. The Tivo always found and displayed the new channels, but there was obviously no guide data. I don't know if the process is the same on a Premiere, but on a Series 3 you go to messages and settings->Settings->channels->Channel scan.

Unfortunately the scan takes a really long time because it also scans for cable channels, but if it hasn't been tried before this could force the Tivo to locate the channel on a different frequency or with different PSIP data.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:33 AM   #46
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Then redo Guided Setup and give it a different zip code for an area where the problem channel is still available OTA, although the farther away the better p
Tried a zipcode for a town 30 miles away - got the same results.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:36 AM   #47
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or maybe better yet, a zip code for an area of the country where an entirely different station is available on that same frequency.

If the good channel and the bad channel are only separated in frequency by the same amount that the old analog channels 8 and 9 were (6 MHz), there's almost no way it's a hardware problem, especially one that's also present in the replacement box.

So I'm thinking "software that runs the hardware" problem, and since this isn't happening to TiVo owners all over the country, I suspect the problem is in the software specific to your location.
OK - tried a zip code in a different part of the country that broadcasts ABC on channel 8. During the guided setup, the Tivo is now STUCK on "Beginning antenna channel scan. Please wait" How do I get it off of this screen?
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:51 AM   #48
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During the guided setup, the Tivo is now STUCK on "Beginning antenna channel scan. Please wait" How do I get it off of this screen?
If it's really stuck I guess you may have to pull the plug and start over. During guided setup, the Tivo isn't really scanning for channels, it's just going through the zip code's lineup data and checking to see if you get the channels included in that data. It's possible the the combination of frequency and PSIP data in the "fake" zip code data didn't mix well with the actual received signal and froze the software and/or tuner.

Just doing a manual channel scan will find and add any new or moved OTA channels that aren't (or weren't) present in Tribune's lineup data regardless of the zip code used during gudied setup.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:00 AM   #49
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If it's really stuck I guess you may have to pull the plug and start over. During guided setup, the Tivo isn't really scanning for channels, it's just going through the zip code's lineup data and checking to see if you get the channels included in that data. It's possible the the combination of frequency and PSIP data in the "fake" zip code data didn't mix well with the actual received signal and froze the software and/or tuner.

Just doing a manual channel scan will find and add any new or moved OTA channels that aren't (or weren't) present in Tribune's lineup data regardless of the zip code used during gudied setup.
Thanks for jumping in with actual digital channel hunting experience.

I'm still pretty sure/almost absolutely certain I'm right about what's wrong, the trick is proving it.

(the alternative is that both his location has a problem and the first TiVo that he tried in a different location as well with the same results also had its own problem that caused the same strange symptoms.)
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:35 AM   #50
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Got bogus zip to register

OK - bogus zipcode finally went through on setup. Problem was I thought that this zipcode had a true digital frequency of 8 in the area, but it turns out that was the NTSC channel and that it really was frequency 7 (which happens to be my "good" channel here).

Experimenting with this set-up, I get a strong signal strength on this bogus channel 8 (true digital freq 7) but no picture at all (must be due to the conflict of the downloaded info versus the OTA info). After a channel scan, I get channels 3-1 and 3-2 fine as before (these are digital freq 7), and the signal strength is an exact match for the bogus channels on frequency 7.

Channel scan returns a "hit" for the troublesome channel at 8-3 and 8-4, with same signal strength issues as before. (These have never shown up and 8-3 and 8-4 before, but I assume the bogus zip's channels 8-1 and 8-2 bumped them down to 3 and 4?)

Retrying another bogus zipcode that actually has digital frequency 8 now. Will report back.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:01 PM   #51
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zip code madness

Used a colorado zip code that had channel 8 for pbs. When on this channel, get a "problem with the signal" message on 8-1 and 8-2 - although it did show a pixelated abc broadcast for a moment or two.

The Tivo is not liking these shananigans. When I go to setup and channels, I get a "please wait" message that will not go away!! So I cannot access the signal strength, do a channel scan, or enable any other channels. Kind of stuck again....
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #52
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Used a colorado zip code that had channel 8 for pbs. When on this channel, get a "problem with the signal" message on 8-1 and 8-2 - although it did show a pixelated abc broadcast for a moment or two.

The Tivo is not liking these shananigans. When I go to setup and channels, I get a "please wait" message that will not go away!! So I cannot access the signal strength, do a channel scan, or enable any other channels. Kind of stuck again....
Try it again with the paper clip as a poor man's attenuator.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:54 PM   #53
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Try it again with the paper clip as a poor man's attenuator.
The entire guided setup or just a channel scan with a paper clip?

Thanks for your patience...


Update from earlier: after putting the box into standby and unplugging for a few minutes, I was able to finally access the channel settings. 8-1, 8-2, 8-3, and 8-4 all have the bogus Colorado call letters and give a signal strength between 10 and 20, which was the strength I was getting with a legit zip code for 5-1 and 5-2 on digital frequency 8 before.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:13 PM   #54
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Try it again with the paper clip as a poor man's attenuator.
I went ahead and tried it with guided setup. Locked in all my channels with the paperclip:
3-1 and 3-2 strength 65-70 (normally 85-95)
21-1 to 21-4 strength 40-45 (normally 75-85)
5-1 and 5-2 strength 10-20 SAME AS IT ALWAYS IS!!!

Tried hooking up the "real" antenna after the setup and 5-1 and 5-2 still aren't coming in.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:49 PM   #55
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I went ahead and tried it with guided setup. Locked in all my channels with the paperclip:
3-1 and 3-2 strength 65-70 (normally 85-95)
21-1 to 21-4 strength 40-45 (normally 75-85)
5-1 and 5-2 strength 10-20 SAME AS IT ALWAYS IS!!!

Tried hooking up the "real" antenna after the setup and 5-1 and 5-2 still aren't coming in.
If the exact same cable from the antenna plugged directly into the TV gives you that channel, and this is the second TiVo that won't with that same antenna feed connected, and the first wouldn't do it in a different location either, then one way or the other it has to be TiVo's fault.

Maybe the adjacent channel rejection figures on the tuners are terrible compared to your TV, and that's causing some problem, but your TV proves it can be done, so TiVo owes you an explanation of why they can't.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:55 PM   #56
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I am baffled by your problem. Have you contacted the station engineer to see if he has any ideas?
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:01 PM   #57
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Does that attic antenna have a built-in amplifier?
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:23 PM   #58
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Does that attic antenna have a built-in amplifier?
Yes, it has an an in-line ac-powered amplifier that came with it. I've attached it both at the distribution for the whole house and right before the tivo box with a dedicated line from the tivo to the antenna. I've also tried without the amplifier plugged in or attached at all.
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:28 PM   #59
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Yes, it has an an in-line ac-powered amplifier that came with it. I've attached it both at the distribution for the whole house and right before the tivo box with a dedicated line from the tivo to the antenna. I've also tried without the amplifier plugged in or attached at all.
The second post here:

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/ind...topic=217405.0

made me think I might have been on to something.

But if you bypassed it...
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:32 AM   #60
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References:
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KFBB
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=KRTV
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_indoor...as_directional


I know its frustrating because you get good reception on other devices and its just the TiVo that's problematic. So here I am pissing in the wind with some thoughts......

Looks like KFBB and KRTV are on different towers but at the same site. Your direct line of site may be slightly different for the two channels.

KFBB broadcasts uses a non-directional antenna(make: SCA), KRTV broadcast on a directional antenna(make: DIE).

You're in a mountain area and most likely have multi-path issues with signals bouncing off hills/mountains.

The Premier TiVo is the weak link in your setup, and I heard rumors that the Premier TiVo doesn't do as well with multi-path issues.

Rabbit ear antennas are not particularly directional and can pick up shadow signals bouncing off of trees/hill/mountains.

Is your attic antenna directional?

The Tivo is your problem, so because of location/Premier TiVo/antenna/multi-path issues you may need a directional antenna pointed directly at the towers for your new TiVo to work.
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