NY Times Gives Tivo Thumbs Down

[innocentfreak]

You should file a report with the FCC. FCC.gov/complaints.

[ajwees41]

Originally Posted by TiVoStephen

Hey folks,

As you saw in this report, at times it can be a challenge obtaining a CableCARD. This is absolutely something we have been aware of, and we are very pleased that as of August 8, 2011, all cable providers are mandated by the FCC to allow subscribers the option of a hassle-free, no charge self-install of the cable card.

Our customer support team does have contacts with all of the major cable companies in the U.S., and we do our best to work with each company to make sure that they are aware of the law and are doing their best to solve any problems that our customers report.

Out of curiosity, have you or someone you know had similar experiences since the FCC announced this mandate in October 2010? We would like to hear your story.

Best regards,
Stephen

EDIT: Corrected date -- changed August 1st to August 8th

where does it say no charge cable card install? on the FCC website

[NotNowChief]

It doesn't matter how much you complain, there is nothing anyone can do about it. The absolute DEBACLE that is Time Warner Customer Service when it comes to cable cards is the most horrific experience for a Tivo customer. No one knows what they are talking about. So while TWC offers it, good luck getting adequate support. Nonexistent.

[warrenn]

Originally Posted by NotNowChief

It doesn't matter how much you complain, there is nothing anyone can do about it. The absolute DEBACLE that is Time Warner Customer Service when it comes to cable cards is the most horrific experience for a Tivo customer. No one knows what they are talking about. So while TWC offers it, good luck getting adequate support. Nonexistent.

Agreed. I had problems where my Tuning Adapter kept going offline and I had to reboot it. I had techs come to the house 6 times. I was sick of the problems so I complained to the FCC. A TimeWarner rep contacted me saying she would be my personal contact if I had any more problems. The next time the tuning adapter went down I called her. She said that I should reboot it. When I said that's what I complained about originally, she said a monthly reboot is normal because the components are so complex. I suggested that TW should get better quality TAs and CCs, but she wasn't interested in any of it. Basically, her solution was STFU and reboot the TA when it goes down.

Tivo needs to be fighting this battle. Frustrated consumers will ditch the Tivo because they don't want to deal with the frustration. I'm stubborn, so I'll waste hours my time with TW service because I want my Tivo to work, but most people aren't like that. Tivo has the financial incentive to see that a proper fix is implemented and they need to be much more proactive.

[SirMontego]

Originally Posted by ajwees41

where does it say no charge cable card install? on the FCC website

It doesn't, but no one ever said the FCC requires a no charge cable card install. Rather, the language of the poster was "no charge self-install of the cable card".

[SirMontego]

I think it should be noted that new FCC rules have been released since the original New York Times blog entry was published. In my experience over the past three months, Time Warner Cable (in Hawaii) has been (mostly) knowledgeable in the field of cable cards.

My tuning adapter (two month old Cisco STA1520 with firmware 1501) has not given me any problems. (knock on wood)

If your tuning adapter is giving you problems, I suggest asking for a brand new replacement (instead of a used replacement). Obviously, restarting isn't working so you should try something new.

You should also send a letter to the FCC (CableCARDEnf@fcc.gov or call 202-418-1160) specifically detailing your problems with the tuning adapter including the dates of tuning adapter failure and required restart. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-11-1373A1.pdf

If enough people do this, the next FCC order on cable cards will include a few lines about how customers are complaining. The letters to the FCC should also include an argument that cable companies providing defective tuning adapters effectively negates all benefits of having a cable card system.

Include in the letter a proposed solution is to open the market for other companies to make tuning adapters. That way the market can operate to find its own solution instead of forcing customers to use one model that doesn't work. Alternatively, the FCC can allow Tivo to include a tuning adapter its next model.

[Kath13]

Have been reading and looking up all the info on the cable card stuff...still have a question. Does self install mean self bought...My cable company says I have to get a cable card from them to use in our Tivo

[sbiller]

Originally Posted by Kath13

Have been reading and looking up all the info on the cable card stuff...still have a question. Does self install mean self bought...My cable company says I have to get a cable card from them to use in our Tivo

Self-install means that your cable operator provides you with a CableCard from their local office or via mail and you insert it by yourself into the TiVo. You will need to call your cable operator (most common) or use their website (least common) to have your new CableCARD "paired" which essentially authorizes it in your cable operator's systems to receive encrypted content.

[nrc]

Also note that if you have any problems, folks here can often assist by directing you to the correct resource for your cable company. Some cable companies have specific phone contacts for cable card installs that normal customer service reps aren't aware of.

Don't assume that your average customer service rep knows what they're talking about if it contradicts what you've read here.

[dlfl]

Originally Posted by nrc

.......Don't assume that your average customer service rep knows what they're talking about if it contradicts what you've read here.

Don't assume that ... period. Since TiVo users are less than 1% of their customers, there isn't much incentive to train reps on TiVo-specific info. Given the difficulty and cost of running their support ops, I think you're lucky if they can handle the mainstream (i.e., not TiVo related) problems competently.

[MichaelK]

Originally Posted by Kath13

Have been reading and looking up all the info on the cable card stuff...still have a question. Does self install mean self bought...My cable company says I have to get a cable card from them to use in our Tivo

to add to what the others said- the cable company can either rent it to you or sell it to you. But you get it from them.

the vast majority of people are served by providers that rent the cards for ~$0-3.00 a month. A few providers force people to buy them- "Service electric" comes to mind as having made people buy them in the past.

[aadam101]

Originally Posted by dlfl

Don't assume that ... period. Since TiVo users are less than 1% of their customers, there isn't much incentive to train reps on TiVo-specific info. Given the difficulty and cost of running their support ops, I think you're lucky if they can handle the mainstream (i.e., not TiVo related) problems competently.

I disagree completely. Tivo and Comcast have spent a considerable amount of money advertising the new Xfinity app on Tivo in my area. There are billboards everywhere and I have seen some commercials too. If Comcast is going to put this kind of investment into advertising, they should have a trained staff who can handle these issues.

[lrhorer]

Originally Posted by aadam101

I disagree completely. Tivo and Comcast have spent a considerable amount of money advertising the new Xfinity app on Tivo in my area. There are billboards everywhere and I have seen some commercials too. If Comcast is going to put this kind of investment into advertising, they should have a trained staff who can handle these issues.

He didn't say they should not do it, he said they don't have an economic incentive to do so. Heck, they should train their CSRs to be abe to deal with their regular STBs, but they don't. Perhaps more correctly, they don't hire people for whom such training does any good.

I called TW Cable (Roadrunner), because I could not recall the URL of the page that allowed one to opt out of DNS redirection. The idiot on the other end argued with me for 20 minutes that their servers's DNS settings were not configurable. It was their own web page, ferchrissake, and anyone who employs DNS redirection MUST allow an opt-out. I finally demanded she put her supervisor on line. While I waited on hold for another 20 minutes, I continued to search and finally found the web page. When he eventually picked up the phone, he also tried to tell me the servers were not configurable. I read him the riot act, and pointed him to the URL of his own company's web page, tucked in an obscure corner of his company's website. When I asked him what the heck he thought that page was for, he didn't answer. I hung up on the moron.

The majority of CATV CSRs (indeed support individuals in most industries) have only recently been able to raise their knuckles from the ground. There are some stellar exceptions, and on one of the very rare occasions I come across one of them, I make it a point to shower them with praise. If I have time, I have them bring their supervisor online and tell them the CSR needs to be singled out and rewarded. Usually, however, I hang up the phone wishing fervently for laws against criminal stupidity.

[lrhorer]

Originally Posted by SirMontego

Include in the letter a proposed solution is to open the market for other companies to make tuning adapters.

Others could, if they wanted to. No one does. Pace and a few others have purchased the rights to one or both patent owners' protocols and are producing 2nd party STBs and DVRs. So is TiVo, but not (AFAIK) on any SDV systems.

Originally Posted by SirMontego

That way the market can operate to find its own solution instead of forcing customers to use one model that doesn't work.

Like what? As long as the various headends are incompatible, there will never be a reasonable 3rd party residential solution.

Originally Posted by SirMontego

Alternatively, the FCC can allow Tivo to include a tuning adapter its next model.

Why do people keep saying things like this? You need to learn something about the industry. Trying to include TAs into a 3rd party consumer device would be an immediate and spectacular disaster. If the FCC would mandate a bi-directional standard (NOT tru2way and OCAP), then manufacturing a 3rd party natively SDV capable DVR would be practical. Unfortunately, it would still no doubt be saddled with DRM, so it would be no better, and considerably worse, than what we have now.

[dlfl]

Originally Posted by dlfl

..........Since TiVo users are less than 1% of their customers, there isn't much incentive to train reps on TiVo-specific info. Given the difficulty and cost of running their support ops, I think you're lucky if they can handle the mainstream (i.e., not TiVo related) problems competently.

Originally Posted by aadam101

I disagree completely. Tivo and Comcast have spent a considerable amount of money advertising the new Xfinity app on Tivo in my area. There are billboards everywhere and I have seen some commercials too. If Comcast is going to put this kind of investment into advertising, they should have a trained staff who can handle these issues.

I don't see complete disagreement here. We both think "they should have a trained staff who can handle these issue". Apparently ComCast has an additional incentive related to Xfinity, which TWC (my cable co) doesn't. Regarding investment in promotions and ads, it's not unusual for marketing and performance to be completely out of sync in a company. Actually in my experience it's common.

[dlfl]

Originally Posted by lrhorer

Others could, if they wanted to. No one does. Pace and a few others have purchased the rights to one or both patent owners' protocols and are producing 2nd party STBs and DVRs. So is TiVo, but not (AFAIK) on any SDV systems.


Like what? As long as the various headends are incompatible, there will never be a reasonable 3rd party residential solution.


Why do people keep saying things like this? You need to learn something about the industry. Trying to include TAs into a 3rd party consumer device would be an immediate and spectacular disaster. If the FCC would mandate a bi-directional standard (NOT tru2way and OCAP), then manufacturing a 3rd party natively SDV capable DVR would be practical. Unfortunately, it would still no doubt be saddled with DRM, so it would be no better, and considerably worse, than what we have now.

+1 Except I'm curious why you think DRM would make the new bi-directional standard worse than what we have now? (Is it because you have hacked your way around DRM now but aren't sure if you could do it with the new system? )