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Old 07-27-2012, 12:51 AM   #61
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I find reading this thread weird. Pretty much everyone who gets a pilot gig signs a seven year deal that is one sided.

It is normal for casts of shows to renegotiate those deals if the show is successful. If it is the number one scripted show on tv then that is guaranteed. This is how tv has worked forever.

The only weird thing is 20th Century Fox pushed the negotiations to the point of forcing a lawsuit. People saying they are making enough are being crazy. It is all relative. Modern Family will generate 1 billion plus dollars in profit for those running it. For the actors collectively to want to see 10% of that over the life of the show is not crazy at all. Now more than ever the shows need their cast, especially an ensemble show. Without the cast there is no billion dollars. Again though this is how tv has worked forever.

They are forced to sign deals that suck when the production companies and networks have all the leverage. If the show becomes a hit the leverage shifts and they force a renegotiation.

It always gets resolved because their is a massive pie to be shared. I suspect Modern Family will have similar success to Big Bang Theory in syndication and because of Big Bang Theory's success they are going to make ridiculous deals.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:55 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock

They were not forced to sign the contract in the first place. They chose to. If they didn't like the offer then, they should not have signed it.
Yeah that is not how tv works. Unless you are a massive star coming in to the show you take the contract offered or you get replaced by someone else.

As I mentioned these are contracts signed when you just make a pilot. You have the option to take it or not be a tv actor. There is no negotiation going on 99% of the time. In this case Ed O'Neil was the only cast member with the ability to negotiate any terms.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:09 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by aindik

It's not so much about whether it's the number 1, 2, 3 or whatever show 18-49. It's about what the actual ratings are. The ratings for the number 1 show in 18-49 in 2012 aren't nearly as high as they were for the number 1 show in 18-49 in 1998 when Friends was on the air. Viewership industry-wide is lower, because there are more alternatives now, and people watch the show in ways that don't count toward the ratings (like, on DVRs).

The network makes money based on how many people are watching. You count eyeballs. The comparisons to everything else on the air are secondary. Number 1 ain't what it used to be.
Yet advertisers pay more for commercials now.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:33 AM   #64
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But why couldn't you have low salaries to start, but have higher ones later (if you get to later, it is because the show is doing well). Or have a clause that if the show does well, there are automatic salary bumps or something? Seems like if you sign for 7 years, you should stand by that. Otherwise why bother with having 7 year contracts in the first place, if you are just going to ignore them? I don't get Hollywood.
The whole purpose of the 7-year deals when casting a pilot is to lock up the talent in the event the show gets picked up and stays on the air. It's much easier to negotiate salary down the road if the actor is already committed to the show for the long term. Nobody expects that the salaries called for in the initial contract will remain as written. It's simply too difficult to draft an agreement that takes into consideration all the potential variables in how well the show could perform, how many people could be watching, the demographics of the viewers, the money received from advertisers, and therefore what the cast should be paid. Instead, everyone signs these deals knowing that for 99% of them, they won't last past the first year, and that for the lucky 1% that lasts longer and eventually becomes a hit, they'll renegotiate.
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Originally Posted by aindik View Post
It's not so much about whether it's the number 1, 2, 3 or whatever show 18-49. It's about what the actual ratings are. The ratings for the number 1 show in 18-49 in 2012 aren't nearly as high as they were for the number 1 show in 18-49 in 1998 when Friends was on the air. Viewership industry-wide is lower, because there are more alternatives now, and people watch the show in ways that don't count toward the ratings (like, on DVRs).

The network makes money based on how many people are watching. You count eyeballs. The comparisons to everything else on the air are secondary. Number 1 ain't what it used to be.
Another factor to consider is that syndication deals aren't paying nearly what they used to pay, either. So while MF was recently sold into syndication, and there will be tons of money flowing from this show for a long time, it's not likely to ever reach the kind of money that Friends or Seinfeld made in their heyday of syndication.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #65
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"The lawsuit asks a judge to rule the contracts are illegal and should be voided because they prohibit the actors from other work. "

that's just wrong
why would they sign something like that ? (yeah, I guess they don't really have choice if they want to work)
I hope the judge voids the contract
they should certainly be allowed to do movies or mini series or guest star on other shows during the off season
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:25 AM   #66
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Ok, im probably smeeking but I haven't read the thread. Also, I've never watched the show but have considered getting the DVD series and starting to watch since I've heard good things.

Anyway, what if the shows ratings started to drop? Not enough to be cancelled but enough to affect revenue. Would it be OK for the Studio to rip up the contract and lower their pay?
The studio is the one that gambles on shows in the beginning. Sometimes they lose money, sometimes they make money. If the actors don't like it then they need to not sign contracts and just get a regular 9-5 job like a "normal" person.

I jut don't feel sorry for millionaires.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #67
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Ed O'Neill Officially Joins 'Modern Family' Cast Lawsuit

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr...lawsuit-355042

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In an amended complaint filed Thursday, the patriarch of the hit ABC series alleges his deal should be declared "illegal" because it violates California's prohibition on personal services contracts that last longer than seven years.

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Old 07-27-2012, 08:17 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by 2004raptor View Post
Ok, im probably smeeking but I haven't read the thread. Also, I've never watched the show but have considered getting the DVD series and starting to watch since I've heard good things.

Anyway, what if the shows ratings started to drop? Not enough to be cancelled but enough to affect revenue. Would it be OK for the Studio to rip up the contract and lower their pay?
The studio is the one that gambles on shows in the beginning. Sometimes they lose money, sometimes they make money. If the actors don't like it then they need to not sign contracts and just get a regular 9-5 job like a "normal" person.

I jut don't feel sorry for millionaires.
But you seem to be very sympathetic towards their billionaire bosses.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:23 AM   #69
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But you seem to be very sympathetic towards their billionaire bosses.
Not at all. As I said, I'm sure every show they try to launch isn't a success so they are successful but that comes at a price.

And they are the ones that put their neck on the lines. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me in the least. It just seems odd that the actors have agents that help them line up the best deal but then then complain after the fact.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:54 AM   #70
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Not at all. As I said, I'm sure every show they try to launch isn't a success so they are successful but that comes at a price.

And they are the ones that put their neck on the lines. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me in the least. It just seems odd that the actors have agents that help them line up the best deal but then then complain after the fact.
Go back and read the thread. This is all SOP for this particular industry.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:18 AM   #71
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Go back and read the thread. This is all SOP for this particular industry.
Not likely to change my opinion. But if it's SOP to bring up a lawsuit then there's really no point in this thread.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:05 AM   #72
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Not likely to change my opinion. But if it's SOP to bring up a lawsuit then there's really no point in this thread.
The renegotiating 7-year contracts after 2 or 3 years thing is SOP.

The lawsuit is a little more outside the norm, but apparently is a result of 1) the negotiations breaking down, and b) the contracts in this particular case appearing to be structured in a way that is actually in violation of CA law.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:17 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by busyba View Post
The renegotiating 7-year contracts after 2 or 3 years thing is SOP.

The lawsuit is a little more outside the norm, but apparently is a result of 1) the negotiations breaking down, and b) the contracts in this particular case appearing to be structured in a way that is actually in violation of CA law.
1) and b) makes me miss Paul Reiser and Mad About You.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:01 PM   #74
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Here's a good discussion from someone who is familiar with the process explaining why he thinks ABC/20th should pay up.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bas...lawsuit-355352
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:25 PM   #75
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Does ABC actually produce this show or another company? Would the negotiations be with the company that produces the show?


EDIT: I see 20th Century Fox is the company they are suing, not ABC.

I didn't realize Christopher Lloyd is one of the creators and Showrunners for Modern Family. Or is that a different Christopher Lloyd ?



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Old 07-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Does ABC actually produce this show or another company? Would the negotiations be with the company that produces the show?


EDIT: I see 20th Century Fox is the company they are suing, not ABC.

I didn't realize Christopher Lloyd is one of the creators and Showrunners for Modern Family. Or is that a different Christopher Lloyd ?



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It's not the Christopher Lloyd that was Doc Brown in Back to the Future.

It's the Christopher Lloyd that is a long-time TV writer and producer.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:42 PM   #77
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Hard not to side with the studio in this case IMO.

its actually very easy not to side with the studio

this kind of stuff happens in sports all the time

athlete signs low paying 4 contract with team

athlete becomes superstar mid-way through 2nd year

its pretty obvious to all the fans and sportswriters that "superstar athlete" is one of the primary reasons the team made the playoffs

team makes millions more than it would have otherwise from TV and merchandise

team offers "superstar athlete" minimal raise

"superstar athlete" sues to renegotiate contract

that's pretty much the case here

studio should lose
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #78
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Ken Levine chimes in...

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2012/0...t-holdout.html
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:10 PM   #79
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its actually very easy not to side with the studio

this kind of stuff happens in sports all the time

athlete signs low paying 4 contract with team

athlete becomes superstar mid-way through 2nd year

its pretty obvious to all the fans and sportswriters that "superstar athlete" is one of the primary reasons the team made the playoffs

team makes millions more than it would have otherwise from TV and merchandise

team offers "superstar athlete" minimal raise

"superstar athlete" sues to renegotiate contract

that's pretty much the case here

studio should lose
Athletes don't sue to renegotiate their contract. They may try and hold out. And this argument is awful. What id the well-paid athlete gets hurt, or plays awful. Should the team get to pay him less because he is bringing in less money? The athletes sure say no. This one-way deal never made sense. You sign a contract. With it you get certain guarantees. If you don't like it, don't sign it.Athletes could always sign 1 year deals. But that's a risk for them that they don't want to take.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #80
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The cast didn't file a lawsuit to have their contracts voided, they filed the lawsuit to get leverage. This will be finalized shortly and everybody will go back to making television shows.


Other than "The Dukes of Hazard" does anyone else remember a time when shows were filmed without the key actors before it got resolved? The Dukes never really recovered from that mess.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:11 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by astrohip View Post
I love this quote from his blog:

Quote:
And something else you should know: Studios are making horrible deals these days. Why? Because they can. If an actor doesn’t agree with the studio's offer for the pilot, there are fifty others who will. Same for writers’ deals. The money is way less than even ten years ago. It used to be your agent could negotiate with the studio. Today the studio says “these are the terms and you have until 5:00 to agree to them, or we move on.” There are enough out-of-work writers that studios can get away with that now. And unlike the actors, writers have no leverage should the show become a smash hit. If actors don’t show up there’s no show. If writers pull that stunt there are seven new writers in the room tomorrow. The public isn’t going to know. But they sure will when they tune in MODERN FAMILY and it’s just Haley and Lilly.

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Old 07-27-2012, 04:49 PM   #82
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"But they sure will when they tune in MODERN FAMILY and it’s just Haley and Lilly. "

That would be an awesome spin-off though...
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:25 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azlen
The cast didn't file a lawsuit to have their contracts voided, they filed the lawsuit to get leverage. This will be finalized shortly and everybody will go back to making television shows.

Other than "The Dukes of Hazard" does anyone else remember a time when shows were filmed without the key actors before it got resolved? The Dukes never really recovered from that mess.
Didn't something like that happen with CHiPs?

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Old 07-27-2012, 08:25 PM   #84
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Athletes don't sue to renegotiate their contract. They may try and hold out. And this argument is awful. What id the well-paid athlete gets hurt, or plays awful. Should the team get to pay him less because he is bringing in less money? The athletes sure say no. This one-way deal never made sense. You sign a contract. With it you get certain guarantees. If you don't like it, don't sign it.Athletes could always sign 1 year deals. But that's a risk for them that they don't want to take.
You don't seem to be paying attention.

This is Hollywood TV. This is SOP for Hollywood TV. You keep trying to bring the real world into this situation, and it doesn't exist. If you or I sign a contract, we live by it. In Hollywood, they are simply starter contracts and both sides expect to renegotiate if the show is a success.

While I obviously have no stats to back this up, I would bet 80%+ of all sitcom contracts are renog'ed between years 3-5.

Please stop saying "don't sign it if you can't live with it". You're making my head hurt.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:01 PM   #85
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I find reading this thread weird. Pretty much everyone who gets a pilot gig signs a seven year deal that is one sided.

It is normal for casts of shows to renegotiate those deals if the show is successful. If it is the number one scripted show on tv then that is guaranteed. This is how tv has worked forever.
I find reading this thread weird for a different reason. Specifically that what you said above has been repeated 27 times now, and each time that poster said it like it's something new.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:03 PM   #86
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I find reading this thread weird for a different reason. Specifically that what you said above has been repeated 27 times now, and each time that poster said it like it's something new.
Based on the other half of posts in this thread, each time it is something new to a lot of people.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:27 PM   #87
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:22 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman
I find reading this thread weird. Pretty much everyone who gets a pilot gig signs a seven year deal that is one sided.

It is normal for casts of shows to renegotiate those deals if the show is successful. If it is the number one scripted show on tv then that is guaranteed. This is how tv has worked forever.
I agree with you. I have read the thread on and off but right from the start did not even post because so many people seemed upset over an action that we have seen before on hit tv shows. I didn't get why they were so upset. Well, I guess I do get why, but not so much so as to bash the actors. The actors are doing what has been done before. It's Hollywood.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #89
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'Modern Family' Kid Actors Now Seeking Salary Raises

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-raises-355614

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With the adult cast having scored big increases, sources tell THR that the four principle young stars are set to begin their own contract renegotiations

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Old 07-28-2012, 09:25 PM   #90
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I love this quote from his blog:
And I completely disagree with the proposition that the current writers are easily replaced. A lot of the genius in this show is the writing.
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