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Old 07-12-2012, 03:00 AM   #1
brian1269
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Premiere keeps recording repeats

My Premiere Elite I've had for about a month keeps recording repeats on season passes that are set up to record first run only. For example, all the "Late Late Show With Craig Ferguson" episodes this week are repeats. They are marked as repeats and each one shows an earlier original air date. But they are all scheduled to be recorded on my season pass that is set up to record only first run.

I transferred my season passes using the online utility from my old box to the new one, and it has been doing this ever since. Anyone else experiencing this? Any idea what is causing it?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:30 AM   #2
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1. Go to the season pass manager and check in the options that it is set for first runs. Tivo.com season pass manager may not have transferred the first run option over.
2. If a show does not have proper info, it may be regarded as new.
3. Tivo Ignores the 'R' in a show's info, but rather refers to the actual air date. (I have had shows with the 'R' on them and the air date reads as current.)
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:52 AM   #3
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This is normal for a new Tivo that has limited guide data history. Even though the program is a repeat, the new Tivo will still record it if the OAD is within 28 days (IIRC) of the repeat broadcast.
This behavior is associated with the conflict resolution engine where the Tivo will look to record a later airing of a show if it was originally pre-empted by a conflict.
As your new Tivo gains guide data history, fewer repeats will be recorded.

Keep in mind (as noted by ThAbtO) there are some reasons a Tivo will record a repeat regardless of what the guide data shows.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:50 AM   #4
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I've been having this happen, with a limited number of shows, for years - ever since I had my Series 2 Tivos. I was hoping it w/b different when I replaced them with Premieres but, alas, the same problem persists.

I don't understand it since, like you said, the reruns ARE marked as reruns. Yet a few of my SPs will pick up re-airings. What I notice, in my case anyway, that it's certain channels. I have it happen with 'E' shows, TVLand shows, and Comedy Central shows mostly. It never seems to happen with network shows or premium channel (HBO, etc) shows.

What I've done over the years, since I don't know any way to fix this (obviously all my Season Passes are set up for 'new only' and none of them were set up on tivo.com) is to go through my 'to do' list frequently to check and delete the ones that shouldn't be there. But then, I have a lot of time on my hands. For some people that probably would be a PITA. The bottom line, however, is that we shouldn't have to do this.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
This is normal for a new Tivo that has limited guide data history. Even though the program is a repeat, the new Tivo will still record it if the OAD is within 28 days (IIRC) of the repeat broadcast.
This behavior is associated with the conflict resolution engine where the Tivo will look to record a later airing of a show if it was originally pre-empted by a conflict.
As your new Tivo gains guide data history, fewer repeats will be recorded.

Keep in mind (as noted by ThAbtO) there are some reasons a Tivo will record a repeat regardless of what the guide data shows.
OK that must be it, thanks. The new TiVo was activated on June 20 and the shows had original air dates of June 16-20 I think.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #6
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I've been having this happen, with a limited number of shows, for years - ever since I had my Series 2 Tivos. I was hoping it w/b different when I replaced them with Premieres but, alas, the same problem persists.

I don't understand it since, like you said, the reruns ARE marked as reruns. Yet a few of my SPs will pick up re-airings. What I notice, in my case anyway, that it's certain channels. I have it happen with 'E' shows, TVLand shows, and Comedy Central shows mostly. It never seems to happen with network shows or premium channel (HBO, etc) shows.

What I've done over the years, since I don't know any way to fix this (obviously all my Season Passes are set up for 'new only' and none of them were set up on tivo.com) is to go through my 'to do' list frequently to check and delete the ones that shouldn't be there. But then, I have a lot of time on my hands. For some people that probably would be a PITA. The bottom line, however, is that we shouldn't have to do this.
Yeah I've noticed that issue as well. I'm guessing that probably stems from the networks being too lazy to provide the proper programming infomation to Tribune.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
This is normal for a new Tivo that has limited guide data history. Even though the program is a repeat, the new Tivo will still record it if the OAD is within 28 days (IIRC) of the repeat broadcast.
This behavior is associated with the conflict resolution engine where the Tivo will look to record a later airing of a show if it was originally pre-empted by a conflict.
As your new Tivo gains guide data history, fewer repeats will be recorded.

Keep in mind (as noted by ThAbtO) there are some reasons a Tivo will record a repeat regardless of what the guide data shows.
No, this is normal behavior for some shows that never have complete guide data so the individual episodes are not properly identified. Thus the TiVo has no way of knowing whether or not it has already been recorded. Comedy Central is notorious for this for their "daily" shows like, well, "The Daily Show". It has nothing to do with conflict resolution which is based solely on SP priority. It also has nothing whatever to do with how much guide data you have. There is no such thing as "guide data history". Recording history yes. Guide data history no. (the prior day or 2 guide data you have is not "history")
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:33 PM   #8
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Additionally, there are some shows especially on BBC America where the First Aired date is the original British air date, so you can never do First Run only on Top Gear for example.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:48 PM   #9
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Additionally, there are some shows especially on BBC America where the First Aired date is the original British air date, so you can never do First Run only on Top Gear for example.
I don't get why Top Gear doesn't get the same treatment as Doctor Who.

Two season's ago Doctor Who aired just a week behind the UK broadcast, it had to be a week since they had Matt Smith at the UK and US premiers. Last Season they aired the episode within 24 hours. They did this because the amount of people downloading the show via bittorrent was astronomical. Last season was the first time I actually watched Doctor Who on BBC America HD.

The last season of Top Gear aired on BBC America almost 6 months after the UK Airing! I have a feeling its not as much of an issue since Top Gear makes a big chunk of its revenue from other countries versions of Top Gear.
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:49 PM   #10
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There is no such thing as "guide data history". Recording history yes. Guide data history no. (the prior day or 2 guide data you have is not "history")
Yeah that's what I meant, recording history. On a new Tivo, you start out with no recording history.
In the case of the season pass the Tivo may see that an episode is a repeat, but since it's not in the recording history (yet) and the episode is not already in the Now Playing/My Shows list, the Tivo will go ahead and record the episode as a failsafe measure (better safe than sorry).
Once the Tivo has an established recording history (~28 days), this phenomenon should cease as long as the guide data is accurate.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:45 PM   #11
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Yeah that's what I meant, recording history. On a new Tivo, you start out with no recording history.
In the case of the season pass the Tivo may see that an episode is a repeat, but since it's not in the recording history (yet) and the episode is not already in the Now Playing/My Shows list, the Tivo will go ahead and record the episode as a failsafe measure (better safe than sorry).
Once the Tivo has an established recording history (~28 days), this phenomenon should cease as long as the guide data is accurate.
Yeah, but I think the OP is referring to the TiVo recording the same episode multiple times. It's not really a failsafe measure. If an episode meets the criteria for the SP and it hasn't been recorded or scheduled to record within the last 28 days, it will be added to the todo list. Sometimes, if you have an FRO SP, and the guide data is incomplete for a showing such that the TiVo thinks it might be a new episode, it will get added to the todo list. If a later update of the guide data makes it clear that it isn't new, it will be removed. Some series on some channels never get sufficient guide data to identify individual episodes.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #12
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Additionally, there are some shows especially on BBC America where the First Aired date is the original British air date, so you can never do First Run only on Top Gear for example.
It's not just BBC America that has the OAD issue that renders FRO SPs useless. Case in point - "Lost Girl" on SYFY. The problem here is that, while it doesn't record the multiple showings that happen during the week, if they have a marathon or go into reruns, it will record again any episode it originally recorded more than 28 days prior.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #13
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Additionally, there are some shows especially on BBC America where the First Aired date is the original British air date, so you can never do First Run only on Top Gear for example.
That happened to me on Top Gear. Missed the entire last series because it shows them as repeats so they didn't record. Haven't found a good solution yet either for that show. If you set the SP to record repeats, then it will fill up you hard drive as BBC America shows a ton of repeats for it.

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Yeah, but I think the OP is referring to the TiVo recording the same episode multiple times.
No it didn't record it multiple times, it is just recording shows that are repeats from 3-4 weeks ago.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:35 PM   #14
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I don't understand it since, like you said, the reruns ARE marked as reruns.
There is no such thing as "marked as reruns". There is only Original Air Date. Any other info you see in the human readable text is IRRELEVANT to the Tivo, from what everyone else has said for years. (In other words, of course I haven't seen the code or examined the assembly in a running Tivo..)

Summarizing what other people said:
1) Even if OAD is 'old', if it's within the past 28 days, it counts as 'new'. (I thought it was 14 days for new, but there is a 28 day rule of recording the same episode again, and that part is shown in the recording history info)
2) If there IS no OAD, the Tivo records it because it COULD be new (and is, for things like the news that don't have guide data). As another switch, I personally would like a "record when the guide data is generic?" y/n switch.. but I could see that being WRONG sometimes, and I would get mad.. Regular less technical users would be way mad.

You can use the "Tupper method" for auto recording wishlists to avoid this, with non-infinitesimal amount of work on your part.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:28 AM   #15
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That happened to me on Top Gear. Missed the entire last series because it shows them as repeats so they didn't record. Haven't found a good solution yet either for that show. If you set the SP to record repeats, then it will fill up you hard drive as BBC America shows a ton of repeats for it.
It shouldn't, if it has complete guide data. Any particular episode should only be recorded once each 28 days.

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No it didn't record it multiple times, it is just recording shows that are repeats from 3-4 weeks ago.
Ah, OK. Then as mattack noted in his most recent post, TiVo treats as "New" any episode whose OAD is within the previous 28* days and an FRO SP will schedule any episode like that which hasn't been previously scheduled or recorded by that TiVo.

* I say 28 because I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it uses the same criteria used by the HDUI guide to flag "New" episodes. Looking at the guide for SYFY on 7/16, when they are running a mini-marathon of "Eureka", episodes whose OAD is 6/11/12 or earlier are not flagged, while episodes whose OAD is 6/18/12 or later are flagged as "New".
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:22 AM   #16
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There is no such thing as "marked as reruns". There is only Original Air Date. Any other info you see in the human readable text is IRRELEVANT to the Tivo, from what everyone else has said for years. (In other words, of course I haven't seen the code or examined the assembly in a running Tivo..)

Summarizing what other people said:
1) Even if OAD is 'old', if it's within the past 28 days, it counts as 'new'. (I thought it was 14 days for new, but there is a 28 day rule of recording the same episode again, and that part is shown in the recording history info)
2) If there IS no OAD, the Tivo records it because it COULD be new (and is, for things like the news that don't have guide data). As another switch, I personally would like a "record when the guide data is generic?" y/n switch.. but I could see that being WRONG sometimes, and I would get mad.. Regular less technical users would be way mad.

You can use the "Tupper method" for auto recording wishlists to avoid this, with non-infinitesimal amount of work on your part.
Thanks for that info. Although I am truly NOT dense, some of this makes little sense. On certain channels I will have shows that have an OAD of some time in the recent past and it has an 'R' in the description, I've already had that episode record or it's on the current 'to do' list, everything for the perfect storm, and it still schedules them.

As to #1 - I'm not understanding why any OAD in the last 28 days should be considered new although it has already been scheduled or recorded. This is a pretty black and white issue, IMO. It's either a new episode or NOT a new episode. I guess Tivo sees it differently, eh?

What I meant by 'marked as reruns' is that it shows an OAD of a previous date and there is an 'R' in the program description. I can see what you are saying now about that 'R' being irrelevant. It's probably just like that is part of the episode description and not part of their determination as to the OAD. Wow, I've made progress on understanding this mess. hehe

I don't get why they cannot just take an OAD FWIW. If the OAD is today, then it's a new episode. If the OAD is last week or two weeks ago, it is not a new episode, unless it's a brand new Tivo that was not hooked up last week I guess.

What I get is, on a given show, it will record the new ep and then several more old eps of that show that are airing that week. So like if I have Chelsea Lately, new eps only SP, it will record it every night M-Th at 8pm (our HD channel is East Coast feed I guess) and then it will pick up more of those rerun episodes, sometimes a couple a day. It just does it on certain channels so, like another poster, I think it's more about the info that the cable co feeds to Tribune Media than being about the way the Tivo works. Of course I could be wrong. I often am.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:12 PM   #17
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Thanks for that info. Although I am truly NOT dense, some of this makes little sense. On certain channels I will have shows that have an OAD of some time in the recent past and it has an 'R' in the description, I've already had that episode record or it's on the current 'to do' list, everything for the perfect storm, and it still schedules them.

As to #1 - I'm not understanding why any OAD in the last 28 days should be considered new although it has already been scheduled or recorded. This is a pretty black and white issue, IMO. It's either a new episode or NOT a new episode. I guess Tivo sees it differently, eh?

What I meant by 'marked as reruns' is that it shows an OAD of a previous date and there is an 'R' in the program description. I can see what you are saying now about that 'R' being irrelevant. It's probably just like that is part of the episode description and not part of their determination as to the OAD. Wow, I've made progress on understanding this mess. hehe

I don't get why they cannot just take an OAD FWIW. If the OAD is today, then it's a new episode. If the OAD is last week or two weeks ago, it is not a new episode, unless it's a brand new Tivo that was not hooked up last week I guess.

What I get is, on a given show, it will record the new ep and then several more old eps of that show that are airing that week. So like if I have Chelsea Lately, new eps only SP, it will record it every night M-Th at 8pm (our HD channel is East Coast feed I guess) and then it will pick up more of those rerun episodes, sometimes a couple a day. It just does it on certain channels so, like another poster, I think it's more about the info that the cable co feeds to Tribune Media than being about the way the Tivo works. Of course I could be wrong. I often am.
The TiVo is pretty much doing the best it can. You really don't want it to use the "R" flag for scheduling purposes. Otherwise, when it couldn't record the initial showing due to a conflict with (a) higher priority season pass(es), it would not record a subsequent showing.

Based on the fact that what I see in the guide for an episode with "generic" data is the OAD of the first episode and that episodes with no OAD don't necessarily get picked up by an FRO SP (this happened last year with something on SYFY. I don't remember what), my speculation is that the third thing (after seriesId and channel> the scheduler looks at is the <program> level <uniqueId>. If that is missing, then it will be scheduled by any SP, even an FRO one. If it receives updated guide data with this information prior to the recording, it will then perform the rest of the checks and if doesn't meet the criteria of the SP (not "new" based on OAD) or has been scheduled/recorded in the last 28 days, it will be removed from the todo list. I had this very thing happen this week with a couple of episodes of "Longmire" shwing late Monday/early Tuesday (7/23-7/24). Initially, theuy had generic guide data and were in the todo list. Now they have complete guide data and have been removed.

Oh, and the 28 day rule looks to be from the date of the showing, not the current date. And the "R" flag isn't even visible when using the HDUI.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #18
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Thanks for that info. Although I am truly NOT dense, some of this makes little sense. On certain channels I will have shows that have an OAD of some time in the recent past and it has an 'R' in the description, I've already had that episode record or it's on the current 'to do' list, everything for the perfect storm, and it still schedules them.
Again, it does NOT USE THE R IN THE human readable description. I think you understand that now.. just repeating one last time.

As for the other part, if you REALLY are seeing things that have already been recorded record again within 28 days, and they DO have valid guide data, and they ARE set to be first run only.. then please keep track and find some examples.


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I don't get why they cannot just take an OAD FWIW. If the OAD is today, then it's a new episode. If the OAD is last week or two weeks ago, it is not a new episode, unless it's a brand new Tivo that was not hooked up last week I guess.
Yes.. OR.. You had a show on NBC air from 8pm-9pm.. so it couldn't record whatever show you wanted on HBO.

Your show on HBO repeats tomorrow.

By your logic, IT WILL NOT RECORD IT.

That's why there is "slop" in the original air date timing.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:35 AM   #19
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Perhaps I misunderstand this, but my Tivo Permiere does this ALL The time now. Recently the new Hoarding was on, and had 5 reruns on immediately prior to it. The Tivo recorded all of the old episodes, as they were all marked new, but had old original air dates, and the new episode which had the new original air date did NOT record.

It's extremely frustrating now, and seems to be much worse since the update to the HD guide, etc.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:57 AM   #20
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My TiVo also records repeats (Wheeler Dealers is a really good example). It certainly doesn't record all the repeats since the episodes seem to be aired a gazillion times, but it definitely records some of them, and the most glaring thing recently is that the new episodes will have a little "new" logo next to them in the guide, so it clearly knows which ones are really and truly new, yet it records some random assortment of other episodes that aren't new as well.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #21
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I've been unable to determine what Tivo uses for the 'new' logo. I see new on things all the time now, but the air date is not current.

This new tivo has become so bad, the wife is begging me to switch back to MCE. Just ordered my HDHomerun.

I'll have a Premeire and an HD box for sale soon. :-(
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:33 PM   #22
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I've been unable to determine what Tivo uses for the 'new' logo. I see new on things all the time now, but the air date is not current.

This new tivo has become so bad, the wife is begging me to switch back to MCE. Just ordered my HDHomerun.

I'll have a Premeire and an HD box for sale soon. :-(
Well, the "NEW" flags in the guide seems to be based on an OAD within 28 days of the date of the showing.

As for the NPL - It appears to be set if the Recording date is within 28 days of the OAD. Or a missing OAD.

As to the "Recently Deleted" group, I am unable to determine the criteria for that at all.

I do not believe that your decision to sell your TiVos and order an HDHomerun is based on this minor annoyance, especially since it only manifests itself on the Premiere, and then only when using the HD menus.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:49 AM   #23
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Well, the "NEW" flags in the guide seems to be based on an OAD within 28 days of the date of the showing.

As for the NPL - It appears to be set if the Recording date is within 28 days of the OAD. Or a missing OAD.

As to the "Recently Deleted" group, I am unable to determine the criteria for that at all.

I do not believe that your decision to sell your TiVos and order an HDHomerun is based on this minor annoyance, especially since it only manifests itself on the Premiere, and then only when using the HD menus.
LOL, you're right- it's based on the WAF (wife acceptance factor). My wife now knows more about Tivo troubleshooting than I do. She dealt with the tuning adapter issues when they occured, the spontaneous reboots, etc. This is pretty much the last straw.

You don't find it ridiculous that it labels a show as new because its less than a month old? I can also confirm that is not the only case - I've had numerous shows from 2011 (yeah, we're over 6 months from that year) that were listed as new.

Also, how would that cause it to record ALL of the old episodes marked as new, but NOT the brand new with the current OAD?

As for the HD guide - are you saying that this problem only occurs when using them? I haven't tried reverting to the standard guide to see if it corrects it, but I will. My statement was that the update that brought the hd guide is when these new bugs started.

Don't get me wrong - I've been a loyal Tivo fan for years. With the capabilities it has and gains, along with forum developed apps like Pytivo - I've been a huge Tivo cheerleader. I prefer to have one box do everything, and Tivo has been able to do that for me.

I can make excuses for spontaneous reboots (could be heat related), and even the tuning adapter (its time warners fault), but all the latest issues are soley on Tivo.

Not recording first run episodes is a BUG, as is having all the old episodes tagged as new. I still laugh when my wife kept getting mad that the tivo was trying to record hard core porn, lol. She didn't find it funny, but I did. I found some thing on here that said that checking a TV-MA show could cause that - seriously? How does a broadcast show relate at all to hardcore porn? I still love the names when looking through the list, but I digress.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
LOL, you're right- it's based on the WAF (wife acceptance factor). My wife now knows more about Tivo troubleshooting than I do. She dealt with the tuning adapter issues when they occured, the spontaneous reboots, etc. This is pretty much the last straw.
Understood. One of the benefits of being on Comcast is no TA. Also minimal use of the no copy flag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
You don't find it ridiculous that it labels a show as new because its less than a month old? I can also confirm that is not the only case - I've had numerous shows from 2011 (yeah, we're over 6 months from that year) that were listed as new.
If the episodes from 2011 are flagged as "NEW" in the guide and have an OAD and specific episode data, then I don't understand why. If they're flagged as "NEW" in the NPL(My Shows) and have specific episode data and an OAD that is not within 28 days of the recording date, again I don't understand.

As far as it being set at all: In the guide, it is setting it based on the same criteria that an FRO SP uses. In the NPL, it is being set if the episode met this criteria when it was recorded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
Also, how would that cause it to record ALL of the old episodes marked as new, but NOT the brand new with the current OAD?
It shouldn't. Have you looked at the recording history to find out why that episode was not recorded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
As for the HD guide - are you saying that this problem only occurs when using them? I haven't tried reverting to the standard guide to see if it corrects it, but I will. My statement was that the update that brought the hd guide is when these new bugs started.
The original release of the HDUI guide had a different problem with the "NEW" flag. I suspect "fixing" that caused this new issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
Don't get me wrong - I've been a loyal Tivo fan for years. With the capabilities it has and gains, along with forum developed apps like Pytivo - I've been a huge Tivo cheerleader. I prefer to have one box do everything, and Tivo has been able to do that for me.
Don't get me wrong. I am not happy with the TiVo s/w team. IMNSHO, for the last couple of years there have been too many instances of poor design, sloppy implementation, and insufficient testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
I can make excuses for spontaneous reboots (could be heat related), and even the tuning adapter (its time warners fault), but all the latest issues are soley on Tivo.

Not recording first run episodes is a BUG,...
I agree it would be a BUG but I suspect there was some other reason for it's failure to record. Do you possibly have the SP set with KUID and a "Keep at most" limit that was reached recording the "old" episodes? Remember, an FRO SP will schedule any episode it thinks of as new that hasn't been previously scheduled. It will also schedule any episode which is missing the episode identifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
...as is having all the old episodes tagged as new.
Probably not a bug. Design flaw maybe, since it is probably WAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
I still laugh when my wife kept getting mad that the tivo was trying to record hard core porn, lol. She didn't find it funny, but I did. I found some thing on here that said that checking a TV-MA show could cause that - seriously? How does a broadcast show relate at all to hardcore porn? I still love the names when looking through the list, but I digress.
Turning off suggestions is the second thing I do when personalizing a new TiVo. The first thing I do is mute the sound effects.
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