So I've started Supernatural (possible spoilers) - Page 21

Rob Helmerichs · 07-04-2012, 06:03 AM

Or look at it this way (in addition to that other way): When you create beings whose only purpose is to obey your orders, and you stop giving orders, how is that gonna end well?

photoshopgrl · 07-04-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendikarr

Look at it this way

Unless you were an archangel, your job was to follow orders. Castiel was just a regular angel who was part of the charge into hell and freed Dean. Early Cas was like this. His exposure to the Winchesters and friendship with Dean taught him how to make his own choices. But given that his role models in making choice were Sam and Dean, you have to know he was gonna screw it up from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

Or look at it this way (in addition to that other way): When you create beings whose only purpose is to obey your orders, and you stop giving orders, how is that gonna end well?

Yeah I totally get both of these thoughts. Also add in his relationship with "flawed" humans and yeah.

I'm going to a cookout with family today so I left the final 2 for later tonight just in case there's the usual build up and cliff hanger. Have a great holiday all!

photoshopgrl · 07-04-2012, 05:46 PM

Okay. Wow. Right to the temple once again. Just finished the final 2 episodes of Season 6. Did not see that coming, although maybe I should have.

Is it just me that thinks Dean was an ass for not trusting in Cas more?? He practically begged him. Dean assumes he knows what's better for the universe than an angel? I kept yelling at Cas to give him more information! Maybe a touch to the forehead so he could better understand just why he felt it necessary to team up with Crowley. This right here broke my heart:

Cas: I thought you said we were like family? Well I think that too. Shouldn't trust run both ways?
Dean: Cas, I just can't...
Cas: Dean, I do everything that you ask. I always come when you call. And I am your friend. Still, despite your lack of faith in me and now your threats, I just saved you yet again. Has anyone other than your closest kin ever done more for you? All I ask is this one thing.
Dean: Trust your plan to pop Purgatory?
Cas: I've earned that, Dean. I came to tell you that I will find Lisa and Ben and I will bring them back. Stand behind me the one time I ask.

I was yelling at Dean to say yes, he would stand behind him even if he didn't not agree with his plan and beg him to look for another in the meantime. I mean, come on!!

And even after Dean tells him to kiss his ass, he STILL shows up at the hospital, saves Lisa's life and wipes their memory FOR DEAN. Just like last season when he kicked the crap out of Dean saying he's done everything for him. He truly has. Now we find out that he's the one that pulled them both from Hell. I mean, WTF more can you ask of him??

The look on Cas' face was clear how hurt he was. Then you top that off with Balthazar betraying him and him saying "First Sam and Dean and now this. I'm doing my best in impossible circumstances. My friends, they abandoned me, plot against me.. it's difficult to understand." right before killing him. So that right there shows his feeling toward Dean. He killed Balthazar for one betrayal yet he's continuing to save Dean and Sam. Well until the end of the episode, that is.

I dunno. I know he was heading down a bad path with it all but like he said he had no other choices. God has left the building. If he doesn't do whatever it takes to stop Rafael from winning (a fight he knows he cannot win fair and square) then everything that happened in Season 5 will have been for nothing. I totally get where he's coming from.

My only problem with Cas is him messing with Sam. I'm not sure he can redeem himself after that. Everyone knows you don't mess with Sammy. Dean will never forgive that and next season if there are other consequences to that wall being taken down (and let's face it, we know there has to be more than we have seen), Dean is going to wig the F out. I think they made a bad move on that. I was all aboard Team Cas until that moment.

What a great ending to the season though. I am totally excited to start Season 7 in a few minutes and see how this plays out on all fronts.

Church AV Guy · 07-04-2012, 08:22 PM

Wow, just WOW! I take four or so days off, and there are PAGES in this thread to catch up on. Going back a few pages, yes, you were correct about the last seal to open Lucifer's cage. I was REALLY impressed thatyou had correctly guessed that. And again, I was impressed that you deduced that Sam was soulless. Maybe there is something to watching them in a compressed fashion, rather then one a week as they are broadcast.

I actually think that there is a good chance that there are more posts in this thread than in the original threads of the show.

A while back I worked on a fake spoiler for you coming up with something so outrageous that it was obviously false. I couldn't think of anything, because they have done so much stuff that is so over the top, and THEY GET AWAY WITH IT! Yeah, they both die, goto heaven, and have to break out to return to the earth. Yeah, the release the devil, but they recage him before he can completely unleash the apocalypse. Yeah, they defeat three of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and the forth one just surrenders (his ring) to them. All outrageous, and it happened in the show WITHOUT it jumping the shark. No other show has gotten away with this much and kept it together!

Your posts have been extremely entertaining, and have reminded me again just how good this show has been. There is a purpose, even to the stuff I didn't like.

photoshopgrl · 07-04-2012, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Church AV Guy

Wow, just WOW! I take four or so days off, and there are PAGES in this thread to catch up on. Going back a few pages, yes, you were correct about the last seal to open Lucifer's cage. I was REALLY impressed thatyou had correctly guessed that. And again, I was impressed that you deduced that Sam was soulless. Maybe there is something to watching them in a compressed fashion, rather then one a week as they are broadcast.

I actually think that there is a good chance that there are more posts in this thread than in the original threads of the show.

A while back I worked on a fake spoiler for you coming up with something so outrageous that it was obviously false. I couldn't think of anything, because they have done so much stuff that is so over the top, and THEY GET AWAY WITH IT! Yeah, they both die, goto heaven, and have to break out to return to the earth. Yeah, the release the devil, but they recage him before he can completely unleash the apocalypse. Yeah, they defeat three of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and the forth one just surrenders (his ring) to them. All outrageous, and it happened in the show WITHOUT it jumping the shark. No other show has gotten away with this much and kept it together!

Your posts have been extremely entertaining, and have reminded me again just how good this show has been. There is a purpose, even to the stuff I didn't like.

Feel free to be impressed I figured out the last seal. I was uber impressed with myself. I think I pulled something patting myself on the back.

However, the souless Sam thing, I only guessed based on responses here about something was missing right after watching episode 3 centering around souls. I think had nobody said anything, I might have just came to the conclusion that he still had Lucifer inside him and even after that I waffled a bit on that theory.

Even now, watching Episode 1 of Season 7. They bound Death in an effort to kill Cas aka new God. So yeah, pretty much no storyline is out of the question with this show.

photoshopgrl · 07-04-2012, 09:08 PM

And WTF with this info on my TVRage synopsis for 07x01:

Quote:

As of this episode, Misha Collins is no longer listed as a series regular.

I am not pleased.

steve614 · 07-04-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

And WTF with this info on my TVRage synopsis for 07x01:

I am not pleased.

Church AV Guy · 07-05-2012, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

Feel free to be impressed I figured out the last seal. I was uber impressed with myself. I think I pulled something patting myself on the back.

However, the souless Sam thing, I only guessed based on responses here about something was missing right after watching episode 3 centering around souls. I think had nobody said anything, I might have just came to the conclusion that he still had Lucifer inside him and even after that I waffled a bit on that theory.

Even now, watching Episode 1 of Season 7. They bound Death in an effort to kill Cas aka new God. So yeah, pretty much no storyline is out of the question with this show.

Yup, that was one I mentioned (spoilerized). What other show could have the main characters attempt to kill God, without people screaming JUMP THE SHARK TIME, but somehow or other, they manage to pull it off. I wouldn't have guessed it was possible, but they have done it.

My, we have come along way from the yellow-eyed demon being the big bad, haven't we?

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 03:19 AM

I'm curious to read what you guys thought about the Dean/Cas rant I posted. I'm also curious what the main audience thought at the time. Do we automatically always side with Dean/Sam on everything?

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve614

I trust them, I really do. Doesn't mean I have to like it when I see things like this and that Bobby Singer dies apparently in Season 7. I would assume they both have to be back, right?? I think it would be a huge mistake not to. They have both, IMO, become an integral part of the show.

Rob Helmerichs · 07-05-2012, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

I trust them, I really do. Doesn't mean I have to like it when I see things like this and that Bobby Singer dies apparently in Season 7. I would assume they both have to be back, right?? I think it would be a huge mistake not to. They have both, IMO, become an integral part of the show.

Ah, Bobby Singer... [chews own tongue off]

danterner · 07-05-2012, 06:20 AM

Tee hee.

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 06:48 AM

Okay stop messing with me and reply to my Cas/Dean post, damn you!

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Church AV Guy

My, we have come along way from the yellow-eyed demon being the big bad, haven't we?

I really thought he would be the series bad guy and end up being the devil. Hee! You all must have had fun watching me spin my wheels.... not that I'm done doing that. I have the entire Season 7 to watch now. I did watch Episode 1 and I'm going to attempt to sneak in Episode 2 here at work.

Speaking of episode 1, am I the only person that was yelling "HYPOCRITES!" at my TV when they called on Crowley to conspire against Cas? Oh so they can work with him but if Cas does, they turn their back on him. pfffft

Was not happy about that at all.

Couple of things that made me laugh on this episode though. Dean asking the guard if he had any Grey Poupon. HA!

Bobby: I got all kinds of feelers out. So far, diddly.
Dean: And what exactly are you looking for?
Bobby: Exactly. What? Miracles, mass visions, trenchcoat on a tortilla, I don't know what I'm looking for.

Dean: Death is our bitch. We ain't going to die even if God pulls the trigger.
Death: Annoying little protozoa, aren't they?

Rob Helmerichs · 07-05-2012, 07:19 AM

I haven't enjoyed Death so much since Sandman.

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

I haven't enjoyed Death so much since Sandman.

He's pretty cool, that's for sure. I liked his btw, great pickle chips comment on the way out too. Ha!

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 10:01 AM

Well never doing that again. CW's iPad app is HORRID! The commercials are in all the wrong places and I think it skipped ahead a few seconds a couple of times because I didn't know what was going on when it came back on. BS! So I'm going to watch again when I get home. Bottom line is Bobby is missing? House torched? NOOOOO!!!!!

Sam is messed up! At least he realizes now that Lucifer isn't real. That was starting to freak me out that he couldn't tell which was true. This isn't going to go away anytime soon is it? Damnit Cas!

So is Cas gone? For good?? Is that why he's not listed as main cast?? ARGH! I'm going to be one unhappy girl if he is. I'm tempted to google if he's in Season 8 but I'm afraid to spoil myself on something for Season 7 so I won't. But prepare to deal with my rantings if he's gone.

Wil · 07-05-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

The look on Cas' face

I haven't been able to thoroughly follow this thread, so maybe this is a smeek, but I enjoyed what you wrote about Cas here. I was only a fair weather fan of the series, but I thought the Cas character added immensely. I wanted Bobby to be that kind of character, because I kinda know Jim Beaver and admire him greatly, but they nailed it with Cas.

Have you seen the "TV series universe" episode yet? Not great, but some Cas bits there were priceless!

danterner · 07-05-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

I'm curious to read what you guys thought about the Dean/Cas rant I posted. I'm also curious what the main audience thought at the time. Do we automatically always side with Dean/Sam on everything?

I'll take a crack at commenting.

If Supernatural were Facebook, the characters would all post "It's complicated" as far as their relationships go. But Supernatural is not Facebook. Rather, it is a grandfather clock. Each character is a gear in the clock. Each gear turns and does its own thing, and each gear also interacts with the other gears. At different points, the gears may match up in a way that seems inelegant or confusing or just plain wrong. But it is intentionally done, and it is all part of making sure that the grandfather clock functions as a whole. Certainly there are times when Dean seems in the wrong and Cas seems right. And other times when Cas seems wrong and Dean seems right. There are times when they treat each other well, and times when they treat each other poorly. Same thing, with Dean and Sam. It seems to me, though, that picking at particular exchanges is potentially as counter-productive as Sam picking at his wall. Sure, we may find things to rant about if we do. But really, there's so much more enjoyment to be had if you take a step back and admire the clock and the movement of the gears as a whole rather than focus in on the way the gears are arranged at any one particular point in time.

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danterner

I'll take a crack at commenting.

If Supernatural were Facebook, the characters would all post "It's complicated" as far as their relationships go. But Supernatural is not Facebook. Rather, it is a grandfather clock. Each character is a gear in the clock. Each gear turns and does its own thing, and each gear also interacts with the other gears. At different points, the gears may match up in a way that seems inelegant or confusing or just plain wrong. But it is intentionally done, and it is all part of making sure that the grandfather clock functions as a whole. Certainly there are times when Dean seems in the wrong and Cas seems right. And other times when Cas seems wrong and Dean seems right. There are times when they treat each other well, and times when they treat each other poorly. Same thing, with Dean and Sam. It seems to me, though, that picking at particular exchanges is potentially as counter-productive as Sam picking at his wall. Sure, we may find things to rant about if we do. But really, there's so much more enjoyment to be had if you take a step back and admire the clock and the movement of the gears as a whole rather than focus in on the way the gears are arranged at any one particular point in time.

Well your analogy was very eloquent but I hope you don't actually think I can sit back and just admire the series without nit picking each episode/interaction that happens. That's part of the fun of it!

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 04:20 PM

So I'm rewatching 07x02 and I just realized that last season Mark Pellegrino wasn't given enough to do... or at least didn't get to utilize his awesomeness at being pure evil like I had anticipated when I learned he would play Lucifer. This episode he was pure gold taunting Sam. Although I feel really bad for Sam, I am enjoying Mark's performance.

danterner · 07-05-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

So I'm rewatching 07x02 and I just realized that last season Mark Pellegrino wasn't given enough to do... or at least didn't get to utilize his awesomeness at being pure evil like I had anticipated when I learned he would play Lucifer. This episode he was pure gold taunting Sam. Although I feel really bad for Sam, I am enjoying Mark's performance.

Yes, it was great seeing him on both this and LOST simultaneously. As much as I enjoy him on both Supernatural and LOST, he'll always be Paul (from Dexter) to me.

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danterner

Yes, it was great seeing him on both this and LOST simultaneously. As much as I enjoy him on both Supernatural and LOST, he'll always be Paul (from Dexter) to me.

I had to stop and think about who that was! I had totally forgotten him as Rita's ex. He's been a guest on a bunch of shows I watch. He's always such a great bad guy.

Rob Helmerichs · 07-05-2012, 06:03 PM

The weird thing is, he played a flamboyantly gay lawyer on The Closer...and now he always looks gay to me!

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but...

photoshopgrl · 07-05-2012, 06:07 PM

Okay just watched 07x03. Dean, Dean, Dean. You know that is going to come back to bite you in the ass and cause a rift between you and Sam. Ugh. Not looking forward to that. Although I do agree with her having to die. There was no guarantee she wouldn't kill later. Just look at Lenore and her vamps. How many lives were lost by them after Sam & Dean let them go?? But Sammy is going to go off the rails when he finds this out none the less.

And a heeled broken leg in under 4 weeks. Is that even possible?

photoshopgrl · 07-06-2012, 05:51 AM

Just finished 07x04. I need to get things done so that's going to be all for now. (plus I'm really trying to spread these out or I'll be rewatching the series before Oct).

This episode would not have been all that great if it hadn't followed The Girl Next Door. I'm so concerned always with the state of these brother's relationship that this episode truly had me holding my breath through a large part of it. I kept (as Dean would say) waiting on the shoe to drop. I actually had to pause to go to the episode page and see if Jewel Staite was listed in the credits. I know, I cheated! Whew. I know it's going to come back eventually but I was hoping not this soon!

And Dean's guilt is going to eat him alive. That's why he should have never done it. Haven't you learned your lesson yet, Dean? You always do things you have to know is going to cause you massive amounts of guilt and cause major issues with the person you care most about. Is it worth it?? Jeeesh.

danterner · 07-06-2012, 06:13 AM

If I recall, The Girl Next Door (7x03) was a Jensen-directed episode. He did a good job, I thought. I remember being a bit disappointed, though, because I went into the episode knowing only the episode title and that "Amy Pond" was in it. Visions of a Doctor Who crossover danced through my head, but nope.

I wasn't a fan of 7x04.

photoshopgrl · 07-06-2012, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danterner

If I recall, The Girl Next Door (7x03) was a Jensen-directed episode. He did a good job, I thought. I remember being a bit disappointed, though, because I went into the episode knowing only the episode title and that "Amy Pond" was in it. Visions of a Doctor Who crossover danced through my head, but nope.

I wasn't a fan of 7x04.

Never watched Dr Who so I didn't get that.
I thought 07x04 was an okay stand alone, they always have quite a few of them in between the season arc.
I miss Cas already.

danterner · 07-06-2012, 06:45 AM

Never watched Doctor Who? Knowing your taste in other shows from your posts on TCF, I'm pretty confident you'd love it (at least beginning with the 2005 reboot). The stories are exciting and intelligently written, and there are strong season-long arcs with lots of twists and surprises along the way, with a deft mix of action, horror, and comedy, but when you get right down to it, it is all about the very deep and complex characters and their interactions and relationships and their love and loyalty and bond with each other. I know Deadwood is next on your list (it's next on my list too, as soon as I finish The Wire - I'm 5 episodes in to season 4 of 5), but you really should check out Doctor Who. No Buffy alum are in it. (Well, except for Giles, for one episode). At least do this: spend the hour it takes to watch the episode "Blink." It is a standalone and is available on Netflix streaming. Watch it and see what you think. It holds up to any episode of Supernatural (and feels quite similar to one, in some respects).

photoshopgrl · 07-06-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danterner

Never watched Doctor Who? Knowing your taste in other shows from your posts on TCF, I'm pretty confident you'd love it (at least beginning with the 2005 reboot). The stories are exciting and intelligently written, and there are strong season-long arcs with lots of twists and surprises along the way, with a deft mix of action, horror, and comedy, but when you get right down to it, it is all about the very deep and complex characters and their interactions and relationships. I know Deadwood is next on your list (it's next on my list too, as soon as I finish The Wire - I'm 5 episodes in to season 4 of 5), but you really should check out Doctor Who. No Buffy alum are in it. (Well, except for Giles, for one episode). At least do this: spend the hour it takes to watch the episode "Blink." It is a standalone and is available on Netflix streaming. Watch it and see what you think.

Okay I'll add it to the list.