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Old 06-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #31
generaltso
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Have you asked Comcast to limit the channels you receive on your cable card to ONLY the channels that you would receive with a DTA? If they did that, I could see your argument that you shouldn't pay the a/o fee because you wouldn't have to with a DTA.
Actually, your own quote may prevent Comcast from even being allowed to do this.

Receive all “linear” channels (channels other than “on-demand”) in your subscription package.

They can give you a DTA that receives less than all of your linear channels, but it doesn't look like they're allowed to limit a cable card the same way, which could potentially get around the a/o fee.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #32
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Ignoring the problem of trying to prove a negative, I have stated my premise ("Comcast is in violation of FCC regulations governing CableCARDs") and have provided supporting arguments based on facts - the official Comcast rate sheet and the relevant FCC regulations as summarized by the CableCARD: Know Your Rights page. In response, all I have gotten is either "This is what Comcast says and there's nothing we can do about it so just shut up" or "That's just your opinion". Neither of those is a valid counter argument.

This is not a criminal prosecution in which there is an assumption of innocence. In the face of the evidence to the contrary, it is supposed to be up to the FCC to make Comcast prove that they are in compliance. Instead, apparently their only response to a complaint is to inform Comcast and then file it in the bitbucket.

Do you really think that the CableCARD charge that the regulations(FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5), 76.1602(b)) require a cable operator to document isn't supposed to include the ability to actually fully utilize the card as specified in FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4)?
None of your evidence supports the idea that charging an AO for a cable card is against any regulations. I've read through the regulations you linked and I don't see how any of them are being violated by the AO fee. You just keep asking about full use of the card, how is the AO fee limiting your use of a cable card?
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:45 PM   #33
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The only violation I see on my bills is that they don't list the cost of the cablecards separately.

Digital Access Fee - $26.85
Includes: Cable card and Digital Access
3 @ $8.95 each

Cusomer owned equipment adjustment - 3 @ -$2.50 each


I could complain, but I doubt the overall price would change.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:48 PM   #34
generaltso
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The only violation I see on my bills is that they don't list the cost of the cablecards separately.

Digital Access Fee - $26.85
Includes: Cable card and Digital Access
3 @ $8.95 each

Cusomer owned equipment adjustment - 3 @ -$2.50 each


I could complain, but I doubt the overall price would change.
How many TiVos do you have? Assuming the "Digital Access" on your bill is the A/O fee, shouldn't you only have 2 of those since the first outlet wouldn't have this fee?
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #35
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How many TiVos do you have? Assuming the "Digital Access" on your bill is the A/O fee, shouldn't you only have 2 of those since the first outlet wouldn't have this fee?
I have 4. The $2.50 credit should be 4, not 3.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #36
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I have 4. The $2.50 credit should be 4, not 3.
Well, I guess that's one thing to complain about. They owe you another $2.50 a month.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #37
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Well, I guess that's one thing to complain about. They owe you another $2.50 a month.
No, my bill does say 4, I mistyped.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #38
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No, my bill does say 4, I mistyped.
Ah, okay.
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Old 06-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #39
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It's obvious that nothing anyone says will change your view. The fee in question has nothing to do with cable cards. It's a fee that's levied on the second outlet regardless of whether you have a cable card or a cable box. That's why it's not a violation. It's also why the a/o fee is not listed with the cable card fees.

Have you asked Comcast to limit the channels you receive on your cable card to ONLY the channels that you would receive with a DTA? If they did that, I could see your argument that you shouldn't pay the a/o fee because you wouldn't have to with a DTA. However, if your cable cards are getting all the channels that a cable box would get, you're going to pay the same a/o fee that a cable box would require and there's no regulation against that.

Do you have two TiVos? A TiVo and a cable box? A different mix?
Do you not understand that the regulations require them to explicitly provide via the rate sheet "Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD."? Do you not understand that it would be ridiculous to assume that this does not have to reflect the full cost for actually using a CableCARD or that it refers to the primary outlet only? Do you not understand that $7.45/mo is the true cost of using a CableCARD in other than the primary device rather than the $0 reflected in their rate sheet? Do you not understand that the DTA fee differential is a minor point and that if you wish to proceed, you should actually address the main points of my argument rather than ignoring them.

The above questions are rhetorical as it is quite obvious that you in fact do not understand.

One other point that I haven't made here but have made to Comcast - beyond providing the CableCARD, pairing, and authorizing it, Comcast has zero responsibility for maintenance of the various outlets. The splits are all internal (built-in as far as the wall outlet) and Comcast does not maintain internal wiring unless you pay extra.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:02 PM   #40
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Do you not understand that the regulations require them to explicitly provide via the rate sheet "Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD."? Do you not understand that it would be ridiculous to assume that this does not have to reflect the full cost for actually using a CableCARD or that it refers to the primary outlet only?
I completely understand the regulations. The rental cost of a Cable Card is accurately reflected on the rate sheet. The same rate sheet also lists the additional outlet fee. This fee is not included in the Cable Card section, because it doesn't only apply to Cable Cards. Why would they list the additional outlet fee in the Cable Card section, the DVR section, and the cable box sections? Doesn't it accomplish the same thing to list the additional outlet fee in one place since it applies to all devices.

You can repeat the same information as often as you'd like. It won't change the fact that the a/o fee does not violate the FCC Cable Card rules as long as the same fee is levied against the Comcast cable boxes.

If one of the a/o fees on your bill was on your cable box instead of a cable card, would you be satisfied that it isn't violating the rules? If so, just call Comcast and have them change one of you cable cards to the primary outlet. It won't change the amount of your bill, but it would be one less violation in your eyes, right?
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #41
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Your rate sheet must differ from mine. Under the "Basic and Digital Ancillary Services" section (Boston region) it lists the following:

Digital Additional Outlet Service Charge (per outlet)
  • With Standard Definition Digital Converter $9.95
  • With HD Digital Converter $9.95
  • With CableCARD $7.45 (footnote 14)

Digital Adapter Additional Outlet Service Charge (per outlet)
  • (1st and 2nd additional outlet) $0.00
  • (3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. additional outlets) $1.99

Footnote 14: Includes a customer-owned video equipment credit. An additional charge will apply for additional CableCARDs in the same device.

Under the "Video Equipment" section it lists the following:
  • CableCARD (first card in device) $0.00
  • CableCARD (second card in device) $1.50
  • Customer-owned Video Equipment Credit $2.50

That looks pretty darn accurate to me; it exactly matches what I see on my monthly bill. I am not being charged MORE for using my TiVo on a secondary outlet than I would be for using a Comcast-provided *comparable* device - and the DTA is definitely NOT comparable to either my TiVo or a Comcast-provided SD or HD digital converter.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #42
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Do you not understand that the regulations require them to explicitly provide via the rate sheet "Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD."? Do you not understand that it would be ridiculous to assume that this does not have to reflect the full cost for actually using a CableCARD or that it refers to the primary outlet only? Do you not understand that $7.45/mo is the true cost of using a CableCARD in other than the primary device rather than the $0 reflected in their rate sheet? Do you not understand that the DTA fee differential is a minor point and that if you wish to proceed, you should actually address the main points of my argument rather than ignoring them.
So this is all about changing the rate sheet, then.

You certainly are expending a lot of energy and emotion on this.
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #43
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What if you switched one of your TiVos to be your primary outlet? Then one of your a/o fees would move to the DCT2000 box. Would you see that as a violation of FCC rules?
That's completely irrelevant to the question at hand. Even though I think it is sleazy and might argue with Comcast about it if I were in that position, I'm not questioning the ADO fee in general at this time. I will say one thing on the subject though - cable companies used to charge for each outlet, then they stopped, I thought due to the FCC or possibly congressional action. I found this on the FCC website, part of which says:

Quote:
Q: Can the cable company charge for additional outlets?

A: Operators may charge you a monthly fee to recover the cost of the wiring and parts installed and the estimated cost to maintain the outlet. This monthly fee generally will be quite low.

Operators may also charge you the actual cost of installing additional outlets in your home. This charge is designed to recover, for example, the labor costs for installing the second outlet. The installation charge may be a one-time payment or it may be spread out over a number of months.

If you terminate your cable service, the operator must allow you to purchase the additional outlet wiring, as well as any other home wiring the system installed, at the actual cost of the wiring in your home.

If a subscriber requests or installs additional outlets that exceed network design capabilities and that require additional customer premises equipment to receive a good quality signal, the operator may recover the costs of the additional equipment.
hmm. Anyone want to reconsider their stance vis-ŕ-vis the legitimacy of the ADO fee?
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Old 06-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #44
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Anyone want to reconsider their stance vis-ŕ-vis the legitimacy of the ADO fee?
Based on a document from 1994? No.

If what you're saying is true, Comcast should not charge anything for any outlets with Cable Cards. But you'd still get a $2.50 credit per TiVo. If that's the case, I'll just install 25 outlets in my house, order 25 free cable cards, get a credit of $2.50 per card, and have free cable for life. Or maybe I'll install even more outlets so Comcast has to pay me every month. I'm starting to like your logic
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:18 PM   #45
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Based on a document from 1994? No.
Unless the Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act of 1992 has been repealed or superseded (at least the relevant portion thereof), it is still in force.

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If what you're saying is true, Comcast should not charge anything for any outlets with Cable Cards. But you'd still get a $2.50 credit per TiVo. If that's the case, I'll just install 25 outlets in my house, order 25 free cable cards, get a credit of $2.50 per card, and have free cable for life. Or maybe I'll install even more outlets so Comcast has to pay me every month. I'm starting to like your logic
No, in my opinion, if they were not charging the ADO fee then the customer owned equipment credit would only apply to the primary outlet as that would be the only time you are not using equipment for which you are being charged. And even then, it would only apply if your package included an STB. An ADO is not a package. The relevant portion from the know your rights page reads:
Quote:
Pay only for equipment you have. Your operator must give you a discount on any packages that include the price of a set-top box if you choose to use your own CableCARD-enabled device. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5).
You would only be eligible for multiple discounts if your package included multiple STBs.

Strangely enough, pdhenry reported that exact situation. He isn't being charged any ADO fees but is getting 2 "Customer Owned Equipment" credits. This is with limited basic which, AFAICT, includes 0 STBs.
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Last edited by lpwcomp : 06-06-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:33 PM   #46
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Now this is just getting tedious. Good luck with your fight against Comcast.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:44 PM   #47
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lpwcomp, I think you are one of the better posters here but at this point, I'm not sure what your argument is. It started off about something to do with the linear channels but that has morphed into an argument about the lack of a clear pricing system. That has been addressed by generatso and jadziezic rendering that point moot. You, yourself, said the following a few months ago:

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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
While I abhor the "additional outlet fee", I don't think it is a violation of the regulation you cited. You are not actually paying for the CableCARD per se. You are paying for "Digital Additional Outlet Service with HD Converter". You are getting a CableCARD in lieu of an HD converter and a credit for the difference in monthly cost for a card vs. a box.

With Comcast, the only time an actual separate charge for a CableCARD would apply would be if you had more than one card installed in the same device. The only TiVo that needs that is the TiVo 3 OLED.
That is the same regulation you are now saying Comcast is in violation of, 76.1205.

From 76.1205 (B) (1):

Quote:
( 1 ) CableCARD rental fees shall be priced uniformly throughout a
cable system by such provider without regard to the intended use in
operator-supplied or consumer-owned equipment. No service fee shall be
imposed on a subscriber for support of a subscriber-provided device
that is not assessed on subscriber use of an operator-provided device.
Additionally, from 76.923(h):
Quote:

(h) Additional connection charges. The costs of installation and
monthly use of additional connections shall be recovered as charges
associated with the installation and equipment cost categories, and at
rate levels determined by the actual cost methodology presented in the
foregoing paragraphs (e), (f), and (g) of this section. An operator may
recover additional programming costs and the costs of signal boosters
on the customers premises, if any, associated with the additional
connection as a separate monthly unbundled charge for additional
connections.

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Old 06-06-2012, 07:46 PM   #48
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Now this is just getting tedious. Good luck with your fight against Comcast.
I never understood why you naysayers got involved in this particular thread in the first place. There are at least two other threads where this discussion was ongoing and I thought this particular thread was for people who wanted to talk about specific complaints to the FCC.
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:00 PM   #49
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lpwcomp, I think you are one of the better posters here but at this point, I'm not sure what your argument is. It started off about something to do with the linear channels but that has morphed into an argument about the lack of a clear pricing system.
It hasn't morphed. It's all part and parcel of the same argument. The only thing that I recently added was the bits based on the FCC's "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS REGARDING CABLE TELEVISION REGULATIONS"

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
That has been addressed by generatso and jadziezic rendering that point moot.
I respectfully disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
You, yourself, said the following a few months ago:
That was before I did additional research. I freely admit that I was wrong.

Quote:
(h) Additional connection charges. The costs of installation and
monthly use of additional connections shall be recovered as charges
associated with the installation and equipment cost categories, and at
rate levels determined by the actual cost methodology presented in the
foregoing paragraphs (e), (f), and (g) of this section. An operator may
recover additional programming costs and the costs of signal boosters
on the customers premises, if any, associated with the additional
connection as a separate monthly unbundled charge for additional
connections.
a. The outlets were put in when the condo was built and there is only one line going into the unit, all of the splits being internal and therefore Comcast takes no responsibility for their maintenance absent an additional "inside wiring maintenance" fee

and

b. they pay content providers per subscriber, not per outlet.

Conclusion: there are no costs associated with the additional outlets for them to recover, therefore any A/O fee, D or otherwise, is invalid.

While the above applies only to me and anyone else in a similar situation, unless Comcast can show an ongoing cost associated with the use or maintenance of additional outlets, any permanent A/O fee is invalid. And yes, I include in that the $7.45/mo you pay in excess of their quoted equipment rental fee when using one of their own boxes. I also consider the $10/mo "HD Technology" fee (which I have never been assessed, having none of their HD boxes) to be invalid. Some people have reportedly been assessed the HD Technology fee even if all they have are TiVos. Do you consider that valid?

Since the ADO fee is only assessed if you have one of their STBs or a CableCARD device and they change nothing either externally or internally, how can Comcast claim that the fee is a recovery of ongoing costs associated with the maintenance or use of the outlet?
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Last edited by lpwcomp : 06-06-2012 at 10:03 PM. Reason: clarify which fee I am talking about in the final 'graph
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:46 AM   #50
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In order to be compliant with the FCC regulations and still get the same revenue, Comcast's rate sheet would have to read something like the folllowing:

"First CableCARD in primary outlet $0
First CableCARD in additional outlet $7.45/mo
Second CableCARD in same device $1.50
User Owned Equipment Credit (applies only to primary outlet) $2.50/mo
This is exactly why they are not in compliance.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:50 AM   #51
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Your rate sheet must differ from mine. Under the "Basic and Digital Ancillary Services" section (Boston region) it lists the following:

Digital Additional Outlet Service Charge (per outlet)
  • With Standard Definition Digital Converter $9.95
  • With HD Digital Converter $9.95
  • With CableCARD $7.45 (footnote 14)
This is what they need to change all the rate sheets to for compliance. Ours does not have this info for cards.

The A/O fee is just a money grab if you don't have their box, but in some areas there is a way around it - you can get Comcast to charge $1.50 for a second card even if it's not in the same box, with no A/O fee. In my area they won't do this (I think) for more than one extra card though, the third or more card(s) get the fee.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:44 AM   #52
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in some areas there is a way around it - you can get Comcast to charge $1.50 for a second card even if it's not in the same box, with no A/O fee. In my area they won't do this (I think) for more than one extra card though, the third or more card(s) get the fee.
This is what I have basically done to avoid these nonsense "digital outlet" fees. I have two M-Cards, but they are in two totally different Premiere units hooked up to 2 HDTVs. Therefore, will be getting charged just a $1.50 since I told them they are both in a Series 3 TiVo (& they took my word for it).

In order to do this, I had to also turn in my Atlanta Scientific SD digital box. So currently I don't have access to Comcast OnDemand services. However, I never used it anyway so I figured no big loss (for now).

Plus, I am waiting for Comcast OnDemand access for TiVo Premiere to come to my area (Atlanta). Hopefully in the next few months so will possibly get it back anyway. Either that, or I am looking to get an Xbox 360 and can then get Comcast OnDemand access this way as well.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:54 AM   #53
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I had the CC installed in my first TiVo in the family room (I don't think they keep track but the family room is probably the typical primary outlet location). When I got my second TiVo I moved the first one upstairs and had the CC installed on the new TiVo in the family room. Maybe this helped me avoid the A/O fee?

Not that I expect them to be consistent but I sometimes wonder how Comcast would treat 2 TiVos connected to one TV. Same outlet? Additional outlet?
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #54
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I had the CC installed in my first TiVo in the family room (I don't think they keep track but the family room is probably the typical primary outlet location). When I got my second TiVo I moved the first one upstairs and had the CC installed on the new TiVo in the family room. Maybe this helped me avoid the A/O fee?

Not that I expect them to be consistent but I sometimes wonder how Comcast would treat 2 TiVos connected to one TV. Same outlet? Additional outlet?
Absent a physical inspection of your premises, Comcast has no way of knowing to what wall outlet a device is connected. Every device that they know about on an account, either because it needs CableCARD(s) or is one of their boxes, is treated as a separate outlet. The only reason they know you have a TiVo at all is because you need a CableCARD. This explains the real reason behind Comcast's desire to encrypt everything. They claim it is to prevent cable theft when in reality it is an effort to start charging the bogus ADO fee to subscribers who have multiple digital devices connected that are only accessing the clear QAM channels, such as digital TVs and non-CableCARDed TiVos. I guess they consider "theft" to be anything that reduces their potential revenue.

Ya know, I'm not generally in favor of class action suits of this type because it's usually only the attorneys (on both sides) who profit, but in this case I have to say that I think that the discovery process would be very...interesting.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:10 PM   #55
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That's my understanding as well. Although I hate the fact that additional outlet fees exist at all, I don't think it's a violation of the FCC rules.
additional outlet fees are not at all a violation in fact the rules were specifically made to allow it.

basically cable noticed that Directv and Dish charged "mirroring fees" or whatever they call them now a days and complained that they could not.

pay the right campaign contributions and presto chango additional outlet fees for DIGITAL content are legal.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:18 PM   #56
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Since satellite companies aren't covered by CableCARD regulations and none of the CableCARD using TiVos will even work on a satellite system, how exactly is this relevant?

In order to be compliant with the FCC regulations and still get the same revenue, Comcast's rate sheet would have to read something like the folllowing:

"First CableCARD in primary outlet $0
First CableCARD in additional outlet $7.45/mo
Second CableCARD in same device $1.50
User Owned Equipment Credit (applies only to primary outlet) $2.50/mo

TiVo probably isn't interested in getting involved. If the true charges for using multiple TiVos on Comcast were known, it would make a TiVo a less attractive option.

first up the credit is for each piece of equipment not jsut the primary (in fact their system is so confused they give me a credit for EACH cabelcard even though 2 are in one S3 and i only pay a dollar each)

second- take a minute and think. Then stop reading FAQ's and spend some times in the actual regulations like some of us have earlier when this all started with the S3 years ago- and read the actual law and regulations so you understand the FACTS. After all that if you still think you are so much smarter then the hundreds of other people that have looked into it, the people that work at the FCC, comcast's lawyers, the various PUC's, and congressional aids that have looked at it- then by all means try to get an audience with the pope or the president or whomever you think is going to make everyone else see your point of view .
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:32 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Do you not understand that the regulations require them to explicitly provide via the rate sheet "Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD."? Do you not understand that it would be ridiculous to assume that this does not have to reflect the full cost for actually using a CableCARD or that it refers to the primary outlet only? Do you not understand that $7.45/mo is the true cost of using a CableCARD in other than the primary device rather than the $0 reflected in their rate sheet? Do you not understand that the DTA fee differential is a minor point and that if you wish to proceed, you should actually address the main points of my argument rather than ignoring them.

The above questions are rhetorical as it is quite obvious that you in fact do not understand.
....
if anything you are probably right that they should be more clear- and so perhaps your complaints will result in Comcast spending whatever it costs to make their billing system more clear by separating out the charges in a more consistent manner. (hopefully it's not too much becasue i'd rather not have my rates go up because some people can't understand the billing even when 10 people in a thread try to explain it to them)

But the fact is they are not charging anything that is not legally allowed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
...

One other point that I haven't made here but have made to Comcast - beyond providing the CableCARD, pairing, and authorizing it, Comcast has zero responsibility for maintenance of the various outlets. The splits are all internal (built-in as far as the wall outlet) and Comcast does not maintain internal wiring unless you pay extra.
nor do they have anythign to do with the additonal outlet that their boxes are connected to and charge for. Nor does satellite maintain the wiring for their mirrored boxes. In fact many times the consumer provides the original wiring. yet the FCC has decided that digital mirroring fees are permissible. go figure- politicians taking care of us.

I don't KNOW but i suspect the premise is that with digital devices that get "authorized" HBO et al can ask comcast "hey exactly how many tv's are subscribed to HBO?" And therefore HBO can charge by tv and not just account. So sat and cable argue their programming costs can go up for addtional tv's.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:40 PM   #58
MichaelK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
That's completely irrelevant to the question at hand. Even though I think it is sleazy and might argue with Comcast about it if I were in that position, I'm not questioning the ADO fee in general at this time. I will say one thing on the subject though - cable companies used to charge for each outlet, then they stopped, I thought due to the FCC or possibly congressional action. I found this on the FCC website, part of which says:



hmm. Anyone want to reconsider their stance vis-ŕ-vis the legitimacy of the ADO fee?
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Originally Posted by generaltso View Post
Based on a document from 1994? No.
..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Unless the Cable Television Consumer Protection and Competition Act of 1992 has been repealed or superseded (at least the relevant portion thereof), it is still in force.
....

it's actually the telecommunications act of 1996 that changed it.

the same thing that invented the whole concept of cablecards in teh first place.

start your reading of the actual law and regulations that implement the law here:
http://transition.fcc.gov/telecom.html

then come back and see what you think.

they can charge additional outlet fees on DIGITAL outlets


if you read the law prior to that then there was zero provision for cablecards.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #59
lpwcomp
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Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
additional outlet fees are not at all a violation in fact the rules were specifically made to allow it.
According to whom? Show me where the rules summarized in the part of the FCC FAQ I quoted in post #43 have been repealed or superseded. Either that or show me something detailing Comcast's monthly costs to support the additional outlets. Show me where the rules regarding the requirement to provide clear and explicit information to customers regarding the monthly fee to rent a CableCARD and what channels are available have been modified since no reasonable interpretation can draw a distinction between rental and use.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:22 PM   #60
MichaelK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
According to whom? Show me where the rules summarized in the part of the FCC FAQ I quoted in post #43 have been repealed or superseded. Either that or show me something detailing Comcast's monthly costs to support the additional outlets. Show me where the rules regarding the requirement to provide clear and explicit information to customers regarding the monthly fee to rent a CableCARD and what channels are available have been modified since no reasonable interpretation can draw a distinction between rental and use.
stop with the stupid FAQ and read the actual law and enabling regulations and then tell me what the facts are. I gave you the pointer.

personally I dont currently have the time to search it out and post you the link, but i can tell you that several times since the S3 came out and this issue came up that i personally have read the law and enabling regulations and come to the conclusion. (maybe if i have time later i will do YOUR homework for you and get the link again).

But assuming you were quoting from regs you already wrote it in your post # 49 above:

"an operator may recover additional programming costs"

do you really think that it illegal but all of a sudden ALL the cable providers got together after 1996 and decided to blow off the law and then for the past 15 years the FCC has ignored it and allowed them all to get away with it?
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