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Old 06-02-2012, 08:57 AM   #1
am95
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Question about copy protection

I've never owned a tivo but am considering it can do one important thing for me - copy programming from HBO to my PC. I have Verizon FiOS and able to go into the diagnostic menu to check and see what channels are protected and HBO is one of them. What I want to know if this is a sure sign that it will also be copy protected if I'm using a cablecard?

Last edited by am95 : 06-04-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:10 AM   #2
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You won't be able to copy HBO programming from your Tivo to your PC.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #3
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Thanks, but just to clarify, nothing is changed when a cablecard is used? I've read on here from at least one member that they can copy everything with FiOS but maybe it's just a difference in location where nothing is protected.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #4
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Thanks, but just to clarify, nothing is changed when a cablecard is used? I've read on here from at least one member that they can copy everything with FiOS but maybe it's just a difference in location where nothing is protected.
Nothing changes with cable cards. Although I must say this is the first FIOS installation I've seen where everything can't be copied.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:00 AM   #5
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Nothing changes with cable cards. Although I must say this is the first FIOS installation I've seen where everything can't be copied.
Ah, too bad. Guess I got to look for another solution...

But yea, it's kind of disappointing knowing there are people out there with FiOS who get everything. It's really random with my service what is and what isn't. For instance, everything Showtime channel is unlocked except Showtime East. ESPN & ESPN 2 are locked but ESPNEWS is not.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:16 AM   #6
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I've never owned a tivo but am considering it can do one important thing for me - copy programming from HBO to my PC. I have Verizon FiOS and able to go into the diagnostic menu to check and see what channels are protected and HBO is one of them. What I want to know if this is a sure sign that it will also be copy protected if I'm using a cablecard?
With FiOS here, anything I record on my TiVos from FiOS, I can transfer to my PC. The exception are the two or three test channels they have. But any Premium or other channel has no issue with me transferring to another TiVo or my TiVo Desktop PC.

Are you in one of the Frontier FiOS areas? Those are different than the Verizon FiOS locations which is what I have. Frontier FiOS areas do have copy restrictions. But if you are on a Verizon FiOS system then maybe that is a view of things to come with the rest of the Verizon FiOS footprint.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:50 AM   #7
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Ah, too bad. Guess I got to look for another solution...
Why is copying HBO content important?
What is your goal?
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:19 AM   #8
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With FiOS here, anything I record on my TiVos from FiOS, I can transfer to my PC. The exception are the two or three test channels they have. But any Premium or other channel has no issue with me transferring to another TiVo or my TiVo Desktop PC.

Are you in one of the Frontier FiOS areas? Those are different than the Verizon FiOS locations which is what I have. Frontier FiOS areas do have copy restrictions. But if you are on a Verizon FiOS system then maybe that is a view of things to come with the rest of the Verizon FiOS footprint.
I'm in a Verizon FiOS area and it's been the exact same way for at least 3 years in terms of what is protected and what is not so it's probably not reflective of anything coming.

Quote:
Why is copying HBO content important?
What is your goal?
Because everything else that I'd want from other channels is not protected and there's definitely a lot of HBO content that I want, particularly the stuff that might not ever make it's way to blu-ray and quality is very important to me.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:10 AM   #9
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Pardon my ignorance; I have Verizon Fios but I don't use their equipment. Exactly what is shown on the screen where it says it's protected? That may or may not be referring to the cci-byte value. Does it show a value that looks like this: 0x00, 0x01, or 0x02?

This would be the first I've heard of a Verizon location being unable to transfer HBO. Here in PA, HBO shows up as 0x00, which is free to copy.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #10
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I'm on FIOS but I dropped HBO quite a while ago when they decided to raise my rates. I don't recall ever having an issue copying HBO programs to my PC, or any other FIOS channel for that matter.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:27 AM   #11
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Filler response since I don't have 5 posts in order to give a link...
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:28 AM   #12
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Pardon my ignorance; I have Verizon Fios but I don't use their equipment. Exactly what is shown on the screen where it says it's protected? That may or may not be referring to the cci-byte value. Does it show a value that looks like this: 0x00, 0x01, or 0x02?

This would be the first I've heard of a Verizon location being unable to transfer HBO. Here in PA, HBO shows up as 0x00, which is free to copy.

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Old 06-03-2012, 08:52 AM   #13
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Thanks. That would be unique for Verizon... A cci value of 0x02 will prevent making a copy.

After doing some internet sleuthing, some folks have reported in the past that the Motorola box reports 0x02's while the Tivo shows 0x00.

Would you mind sharing your location? It may be easiest if someone else with Fios in your region can just confirm what their Tivo says. If Tivo says 0x00 then it's gold.

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Old 06-03-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
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Thanks. That would be unique for Verizon... A cci value of 0x02 will prevent making a copy.

After doing some internet sleuthing, some folks have reported in the past that the Motorola box reports 0x02's while the Tivo shows 0x00.

Would you mind sharing your location? It may be easiest if someone else with Fios in your region can just confirm what their Tivo says. If Tivo says 0x00 then it's gold.
Yea, that's why I wondering if it would make a difference when using the cable card + TiVo vs using the Motorola box as I had read something along the line what you were talking about.

I'll try and see if I can find some members in my area.

Thanks
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:19 PM   #15
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For anyone that might find this interesting, I contacted someone who lives less than 10 miles away who owns a TiVo and confirmed HBO was unlocked. I'm going to have to do a little more investigated as hopefully this area isn't part of a different system so to speak where there could be differences.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #16
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Nothing on Verizon FIOS is copy protected for me.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #17
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Yea, that's why I wondering if it would make a difference when using the cable card + TiVo vs using the Motorola box as I had read something along the line what you were talking about.

I'll try and see if I can find some members in my area.

Thanks
If you tell us what your area is, that greatly increases the chances of hearing from someone here who is in your area and can advise you.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #18
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So I got a TiVo today, got everything working and to my surprise everything is unlocked. So apparently something does happen that removes the protection when the mcard is used with the TiVo, at least with FiOS.

The only thing that concerns me is that I noticed there are actually recording options such as "best quality" and so on. Is "best quality" untouched or does it undergo some encoding? Anyone know?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #19
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The recording quality options are only for analog channels -- digital channels are recorded as-received. Since Fios is all-digital, you can ignore the recording quality options.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #20
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The recording quality options are only for analog channels -- digital channels are recorded as-received. Since Fios is all-digital, you can ignore the recording quality options.
But it was a HD channel that gave the options. Does it just ignore it if you choose anything other than "best"?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #21
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So I got a TiVo today, got everything working and to my surprise everything is unlocked. So apparently something does happen that removes the protection when the mcard is used with the TiVo, at least with FiOS.

The only thing that concerns me is that I noticed there are actually recording options such as "best quality" and so on. Is "best quality" untouched or does it undergo some encoding? Anyone know?
I think you are misreading the situation. The channel being protected simply means that it is encrypted and you need a CableCARD to authorize access and decrypt it. Most if not all cable systems encrypt premium channels. Copy protection is a separate issue. CableCARD devices are required to honor copy protection. It's just that FIOS chooses not to copy protect any of the material.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #22
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I think you are misreading the situation. The channel being protected simply means that it is encrypted and you need a CableCARD to authorize access and decrypt it. Most if not all cable systems encrypt premium channels. Copy protection is a separate issue. CableCARD devices are required to honor copy protection. It's just that FIOS chooses not to copy protect any of the material.
The thing is as I mentioned, Verizon does honor copy protection with certain channels when using the Motorola box. However, these same channels turned from cci 0x02 to 0x00 when I used the cablecard and that's what I was getting at. Or am I still misunderstanding something?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:51 PM   #23
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Sounds like another reason added to the many other reasons not to use the FiOS DVR.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #24
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The thing is as I mentioned, Verizon does honor copy protection with certain channels when using the Motorola box. However, these same channels turned from cci 0x02 to 0x00 when I used the cablecard and that's what I was getting at. Or am I still misunderstanding something?
This is a problem with the Motorola box. I assure you that if the CC1 byte were set in what gets transmitted to the TiVo, it would be honored. Just ask any TiVo owner on TWC.
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