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Old 05-18-2012, 06:05 PM   #1
WillH
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Replacement Premiere XL And It Still Crashes

Got a replacement XL (under warranty) on Monday for my 2 year old XL that died.

I thought the random crashes that I had been experiencing since the 20.X update a couple of months ago might have been due to my failing XL. Apparently, not so. Just experienced my first crash with the new box. Just sitting here watching a playback of a recorded show and the show froze and then the unit rebooted all by itself. Not using the remote or doing anything intensive. Only 8% space used on the hard drive. Firmware version is 20.2.Oa

It was a short reboot, maybe 5 minutes total. Now, after the reboot it is very slow and slow to respond to remote commands. Bluetooth is not even connected.

EDIT: When I say crashes, I mean it goes back to the TiVo boot screen, Almost There, etc.., then the THX screen. I think others have referred to this as a "soft" crash as opposed to the 15 minute "hard" crash.

Last edited by WillH : 05-18-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:42 AM   #2
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It's not supposed to be possible for you to see all these problems from it, but maybe it's a signal quality issue. Try disconnecting the cable completely and see if you still get these problems.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:01 PM   #3
WillH
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It's not supposed to be possible for you to see all these problems from it, but maybe it's a signal quality issue. Try disconnecting the cable completely and see if you still get these problems.
It should not crash because of signal quality. In fact, it should not crash under any circumstances.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:47 PM   #4
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It should not crash because of signal quality. In fact, it should not crash under any circumstances.
It shouldn't but sometimes they do. Have your cable company check the signal level. If you've tried two different Tivo's and had the same problem it may very well be the signal strength.

I had problems with my cable company supplied phone and they came out to see why it was randomly dropping out and told me the signal strength was way too high. They dropped it and everything has been fine ever since.
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:22 PM   #5
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It shouldn't but sometimes they do. Have your cable company check the signal level. If you've tried two different Tivo's and had the same problem it may very well be the signal strength.

I had problems with my cable company supplied phone and they came out to see why it was randomly dropping out and told me the signal strength was way too high. They dropped it and everything has been fine ever since.
I realize you guys are just trying to help; However, I have owned the Premiere XL since first release in 2010 and the crashes now are no different than the ones I have been putting up with for over 2 years now. The crashing is well reported throughout the Premiere thread. It seems to me the crashing has gotten worse since the 20.X update. The cable guy happened to be here last week repairing a severed line and said all was well with my house.

My point is that the Premiere seems to have adopted the Windows philosophy of releasing products not ready for prime time. But unlike Windows software, the Tivo is a self contained device that only runs software and hardware of its own design an selection, it should not crash under any circumstances: Poor signal, poor power, poor keystroke execution, or whatever.

If I was the only one whose Tivo's have been crashing since 2010 I could see that it MIGHT be something on my end.

Don't mean to sound like a jerk here - just really at my wit's end with the Premeire and it's continuous unfinished, unpolished behavior. As a first time Tivo owner, I had expected much more.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:42 AM   #6
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The Premiere crashing is not the norm. All of mine are fine.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:24 AM   #7
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I agree, I have 2 premieres and have maybe seen 1 or 2 crashes total since the 14.6 days. The only "crash" I have seen in recent memory was getting booted out of the new Netflix app unexpectedly a couple of days ago.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The Premiere crashing is not the norm. All of mine are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vectorcatch View Post
I agree, I have 2 premieres and have maybe seen 1 or 2 crashes total since the 14.6 days. The only "crash" I have seen in recent memory was getting booted out of the new Netflix app unexpectedly a couple of days ago.
Hmmmm...........OK, well I may very well have something going on then. I guess I need to check everything out. I thought it was just a continuation of the same business I have been fighting since day 1 with the Premiere.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:19 AM   #9
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The Premiere crashing is not the norm. All of mine are fine.
I dont think my 2 have ever crashed
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillH View Post
Got a replacement XL (under warranty) on Monday for my 2 year old XL that died.

I thought the random crashes that I had been experiencing since the 20.X update a couple of months ago might have been due to my failing XL. Apparently, not so. Just experienced my first crash with the new box. Just sitting here watching a playback of a recorded show and the show froze and then the unit rebooted all by itself. Not using the remote or doing anything intensive. Only 8% space used on the hard drive. Firmware version is 20.2.Oa
Do you perchance have an external hard drive hooked up to your box? If so, that could be the cause of your failure. Try removing it for a while and seeing if the crashes go away.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:12 PM   #11
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If no ext. hard drive, then also look at your power line. Check for voltage spikes and also check your house power ground rod. A bad full house ground can cause some very weird problems.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:17 PM   #12
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I had a XL that was rebooting on me that I exchanged. But the "new" XL that they sent me started crashing out of the box. So I called up and expressed my extreme disappoint in TiVo sending me a piece of crap. So they exchanged the XL once again and that one had no issues. So you may have gotten a bad TiVo replacement.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #13
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I thought this had been worked out

Apparently this problem has not been worked out. I recently purchased a brand new Premiere XL with lifetime and extended warranty. I was gullible.

The box freezes up every day or two. I have not yet tried the thumbs up etc. cure because I just learned about it. I am using the SD menus and there is no ESATA extended drive attached. Of course, the machine should not freeze regardless.

I also have a TiVo HD and I am considering upgrading the drive on that machine to a terabyte or two and just living with that. I am not convinced the Premiere does that much more and the freezes are unacceptable.

To add insult to injury, I read that if I have the unit replaced under warranty, I may have to accept a rebuilt or reconditioned used unit, and that my extended warranty will be void after the first replacement.

This is no way to do business. I've had TiVo since 2005 or maybe even before, starting with the oldest version. And I am not a happy camper. This should not happen.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:09 PM   #14
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................
To add insult to injury, I read that if I have the unit replaced under warranty, I may have to accept a rebuilt or reconditioned used unit, and that my extended warranty will be void after the first replacement.

This is no way to do business. I've had TiVo since 2005 or maybe even before, starting with the oldest version. And I am not a happy camper. This should not happen.
This is typical of a warranty when the box is replaced. If you get an extended warranty from BestBuy, if they replace the Box, you will also lose the warranty. You have to purchase another warranty on the replacement box if it original was not repaired.

Personally for a warranty replacement I would prefer a refurbished box. Since refurbished boxes have typically gone through a control process and tested to make sure it works properly. I've had several electronic devices(not tivos though) over the last twenty years that were replaced under warranty and I was sent refurbished boxes. It is nothing new and nothing unusual.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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This is typical of a warranty when the box is replaced. ...
Maybe it's usual but it's still wrong. When you buy a three year warranty, it should cover unlimited failures for three years. When I buy an automotive warranty, I don't expect it to stop being in effect after my first repair. Requiring you to buy a new warranty after each repair is rubbish (to be polite about it because the language I am thinking is much stronger than that).

Quote:
Personally for a warranty replacement I would prefer a refurbished box. Since refurbished boxes have typically gone through a control process and tested to make sure it works properly. I've had several electronic devices(not tivos though) over the last twenty years that were replaced under warranty and I was sent refurbished boxes. It is nothing new and nothing unusual.
You may prefer a refurbished unit but I prefer a new one. I have no idea how much time the refurb has run before I got it or what misuse, abuse, and stress it was subjected to by the prior user. More to the point, if I wanted to settle for a used / refurb box, I'd have gotten one off eBay or Woot much more cheaply and never bothered with a new unit from TiVo. This type of marketing is unconscionable and they do NOT adequately disclose it up front which makes it even worse.

Finally, it is unacceptable for these boxes to commonly freeze two years after the problem was first discovered. If they can't fix them, they should stop selling them. You wrote above that this is not typical of Premiere's. Maybe you read different forums than I do. It is an extremely common and well documented problem and has been since the units were introduced. My TiVo HD does not have that problem nor my Sony SR-3000 nor any previous TiVo I owned nor is there an extensive history of freezes for those models in forums.

So the newer model is the lousier one? Sorry. That's not OK with me and I am a long time TiVo user and a big fan of what the box does. I do not like the company, however. I am still in the initial 30 days of this purchase and am seriously considering returning it though that is cumbersome too because you have to locate and include every little bit of fluff that came with the device originally.

My recommendations to anyone reading this prepurchase is:

Don't buy a Premiere. Buy a TiVo HD, TiVo HD XL or Series 3 and if needed, upgrade the hard drive to whatever capacity you like. Don't buy a box from TiVo. The aftermarket is at least as reliable. Woot has them all the time as does eBay. And because lifetime service is tied to the box, get the box first and make sure it works and THEN get the lifetime added. That's what I'd do if I had it to do again. That's my two cents based on recent experience.

Last edited by maryyugo : 05-26-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by maryyugo View Post
Maybe it's usual but it's still wrong. When you buy a three year warranty, it should cover unlimited failures for three years. When I buy an automotive warranty, I don't expect it to stop being in effect after my first repair. Requiring you to buy a new warranty after each repair is rubbish (to be polite about it because the language I am thinking is much stronger than that).
I agree. The warranty Tivo offers is more like the Square Trade warranty: A fixed dollar amount or in Tivo's case, a fixed replacement of 1 unit. The price of the warranty for the Tivo is reasonable though for what you get. It would be nice if they offered a second tier warranty that was more traditional even if we had to pay a little more for it.

Quote:

You may prefer a refurbished unit but I prefer a new one. I have no idea how much time the refurb has run before I got it or what misuse, abuse, and stress it was subjected to by the prior user. More to the point, if I wanted to settle for a used / refurb box, I'd have gotten one off eBay or Woot much more cheaply and never bothered with a new unit from TiVo. This type of marketing is unconscionable and they do NOT adequately disclose it up front which makes it even worse.

Finally, it is unacceptable for these boxes to commonly freeze two years after the problem was first discovered. If they can't fix them, they should stop selling them. You wrote above that this is not typical of Premiere's. Maybe you read different forums than I do. It is an extremely common and well documented problem and has been since the units were introduced. My TiVo HD does not have that problem nor my Sony SR-3000 nor any previous TiVo I owned nor is there an extensive history of freezes for those models in forums.

So the newer model is the lousier one? Sorry. That's not OK with me and I am a long time TiVo user and a big fan of what the box does. I do not like the company, however. I am still in the initial 30 days of this purchase and am seriously considering returning it though that is cumbersome too because you have to locate and include every little bit of fluff that came with the device originally.

My recommendations to anyone reading this prepurchase is:

Don't buy a Premiere. Buy a TiVo HD, TiVo HD XL or Series 3 and if needed, upgrade the hard drive to whatever capacity you like. Don't buy a box from TiVo. The aftermarket is at least as reliable. Woot has them all the time as does eBay. And because lifetime service is tied to the box, get the box first and make sure it works and THEN get the lifetime added. That's what I'd do if I had it to do again. That's my two cents based on recent experience.
Which firmware version is your XL running? I was on 20.2.0a when I posted about all the reboots a week or so ago but was upgraded to 20.2.1.1 the other day and have noticed it seems much snappier. No crashes yet or soft restarts. For reference, I had about 4 soft crashes and 1 full reboots in the first week I got the replacement unit. And it was very slow to respond to remote commands at times, spinning circles, etc.. I think there must be something inherent in each software version that affects some units but not others. Or, each software version could affect different units based on the cable company or cable card they are using. Just a guess. Like you, I think the units should be bullet proof regardless of user, cable company, settings, etc.. Not a glowing report card when a company's product leaves the users frustrated with simple day to day operation. Believe me, I WANT the Tivo to work as it should.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:34 AM   #17
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Maybe it's usual but it's still wrong. When you buy a three year warranty, it should cover unlimited failures for three years. When I buy an automotive warranty, I don't expect it to stop being in effect after my first repair. Requiring you to buy a new warranty after each repair is rubbish (to be polite about it because the language I am thinking is much stronger than that).
........
If they replaced your car you most certainly would lose the warranty. Instead the car is being repaired so the warranty is in force. TiVo replaces all the TiVos instead of having you send it in, waiting weeks for a repair. But by replacing it, the extended warranty is gone. But pretty much every extended warranty I've purchased over the decades has been the same thing if the unit is replaced under warranty. Again nothing unusual.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:48 AM   #18
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If they replaced your car you most certainly would lose the warranty.
Ford replaced my pickup 5 years ago under the lemon law and I got a brand new truck, not a refurbished wrecked one and I got the remainder of my new truck warranty tacked right on. One I qualified for the lemon law under Vermont rules it went smoothly. We're talking apples and oranges here. Just sayin'
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:36 AM   #19
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^^

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Old 05-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #20
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Maybe it's usual but it's still wrong. When you buy a three year warranty, it should cover unlimited failures for three years.
That may be what you wanted the warranty to be, but clearly that is not what you paid for. Caveat emptor, especially for a service where the words clearly matter.


Sorry you are having issues. The folks on these boards would likely help you troubleshoot if you are willing do to so.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:15 PM   #21
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Ford replaced my pickup 5 years ago under the lemon law and I got a brand new truck, not a refurbished wrecked one and I got the remainder of my new truck warranty tacked right on. One I qualified for the lemon law under Vermont rules it went smoothly. We're talking apples and oranges here. Just sayin'

So that was the extended warranty that got transferred to the new truck?
And yes I guess it is apples and oranges. That was replaced because the law dictated it. There is no law requiring them to replace your electronic devices with a new one.
And if there was no lemon law in place would it have still been replaced with a new truck?
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:55 PM   #22
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Which firmware version is your XL running? I was on 20.2.0a when I posted about all the reboots a week or so ago but was upgraded to 20.2.1.1 the other day and have noticed it seems much snappier. No crashes yet or soft restarts.
I want to report a similar experience. The Premiere XL has straightened itself out. No more crashes. The box isn't with me here so I don't know the software version but since it's connected to the internet via a full time ethernet cable, I'm pretty sure it's the latest and that seems to have fixed the crashes.

I specifically bought this product direct from TiVo because I wrongly assumed that would mean a trouble free installation. Instead, the Premiere XL choked at startup because the tuning adapter had not acquired a signal yet, causing a lot of lost time and consternation until we realized the issue. Then, the software version it came with and updated to in the first few days caused several crashes (or more precisely remote control and/or picture freezes). This seems to be completely resolved at this time.

I am not sure what a prospective buyer of a new Premiere XL should do to avoid this unpleasant hassle that we experienced before the system apparently settled down. Now we just hope it works as well and as long as our venerable HD/series 3 machine.

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:41 PM   #23
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You had an unfortunate starting experience. Overall a rare thing in the grand scheme of things, but it happens.

Not sure why you thought a tivo directly from tivo may be any different than a tivo from another source. Its the same box.

Glad to hear the software update did the trick.
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