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Old 01-18-2012, 04:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by FishTank1701 View Post
This thread has been a lifesaver, for both my series 3 and myself. After confirming that my hard drive is ok, the volt meter test reveals that I'm getting only about 6.5v on the yellow 12v line.

I suck at soldering, but the $99 replacement powersupply from weaknees is right up my alley.
Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:59 PM   #32
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Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?
Have you ever used a soldering iron or soldering gun?
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:56 PM   #33
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Have you ever used a soldering iron or soldering gun?
Yes, I used a soldering gun before.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:21 PM   #34
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Yes, I used a soldering gun before.
A word of warning: soldering guns typically make a LOT more heat than a pencil-style soldering iron. That kind of heat can do a lot of damage to a printed circuit board in a short period of time. To paraphrase Elmer Fudd, be vewy vewy cawful!
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:32 PM   #35
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Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?
I will keep you posted on the overall power supply replacement. The new one arrives from Weakness on Friday. It is just a few screws and connectors, so it should be trivial.
My eyesight isn't what it used to be, so soldering new capacitors is too much trouble for me.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:16 AM   #36
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Yes, I used a soldering gun before.
Then once you've identified the caps that need replacing and obtained the correct replacements, it's fairly simple. You unsolder the bad ones, and, making sure to observe polarity (the caps have a negative lead and a positive lead and you take note of which went in which hole when you remove the bad ones, and put the new ones in the same way), solder in the new ones, and clip off the excess lead. If it or they are under where the heat sink overhangs, it might take a little ingenuity to get them in place, but it's do-able.

When Wikipedia comes back online, read the article on capacitor plague, and then find the thread entitled "broken" in either the upgrade or help forum here at TCF for a very good picture of how subtle the difference in appearance can be between a good one and a bad one to help you find the bad one(s).

Probably connected between either the +12V output and ground or the +5V output and ground.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:21 AM   #37
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A word of warning: soldering guns typically make a LOT more heat than a pencil-style soldering iron. That kind of heat can do a lot of damage to a printed circuit board in a short period of time. To paraphrase Elmer Fudd, be vewy vewy cawful!
The power supply PCB is fairly thick and simple, as these things go, the lands into which the capacitor leads go are fairly broad, and a gun instead of an iron would, by providing more heat, let you work a lot more quickly.

If we were talking about the motherboard, it'd be a different story. Most everything there would need a small tip iron of about 25 to 30 Watts.

And a magnifying glass.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:39 PM   #38
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I will keep you posted on the overall power supply replacement. The new one arrives from Weakness on Friday. It is just a few screws and connectors, so it should be trivial.
My eyesight isn't what it used to be, so soldering new capacitors is too much trouble for me.
Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:55 PM   #39
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Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.
Well, somebody has to keep Weaknees in business so they can keep sponsoring this site.

The perfect solution is the one that works for you.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:30 PM   #40
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What's the model number?

Are you sure the caps are absolutely flat?

How, exactly, did you test the drive?

Cable cards? Tuning adapter?

Using HDMI to connect to the television?

To test the power supply with voltmeter, hook the black negative ground lead to the unit chassis, well away from where the AC cord plugs in, and probe the plug on the motherboard where the power supply plugs into it.

Black wire=ground

Orange should be +3.3V

Red should be +5V

Yellow should be +12V

If you have the model with the wire (brown or gray or something like that) that goes to the front panel, it's supposed to be 8 or 9 volts I read somewhere, but if the power supply has problems it's almost certainly going to be on the 5V or 12V.

Tell him to test with the hard drive not connected and again with it connected.
"Sorry for my delay in response but they were busy fulfilling a large machine request from AMD

I'm certain the HD itself is good. We took it out and attached it to our PC HD test station and ran the manufacture drive test and a full media scan/verify.

The power supply seems to be functioning OK. All the voltages measure correctly under load. There are two caps that are just starting to get a slight bulge, but I'm doubtful that they're "bad" yet."

I guess I will look into a replacement power supply. Oh it is a first gen. TIVO 3 HD with two cable cards.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:50 PM   #41
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"Sorry for my delay in response but they were busy fulfilling a large machine request from AMD

I'm certain the HD itself is good. We took it out and attached it to our PC HD test station and ran the manufacture drive test and a full media scan/verify.

The power supply seems to be functioning OK. All the voltages measure correctly under load. There are two caps that are just starting to get a slight bulge, but I'm doubtful that they're "bad" yet."

I guess I will look into a replacement power supply. Oh it is a first gen. TIVO 3 HD with two cable cards.
Sounds like you've got connections at work that could handle replacing the caps on the power supply (go ahead and do it now), and probably get the parts easily as well. Just make sure they understand to use Low ESR, 105 degree temp rating.

So, $10 maximum for replacement capacitors or $100 for a replacement power supply?
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:31 PM   #42
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Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.
So what were your symptoms before? (I do see the message where you tested voltages..)

did your S3 come on at all?
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:32 PM   #43
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So what were your symptoms before? (I do see the message where you tested voltages..)

did your S3 come on at all?
Stuck in a "Welcome - Powering Up..." Loop
Unable to perform any kickstart tests
Ran six hour Western Digital test on drive, which it passed.
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:46 PM   #44
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Sounds like you've got connections at work that could handle replacing the caps on the power supply (go ahead and do it now), and probably get the parts easily as well. Just make sure they understand to use Low ESR, 105 degree temp rating.

So, $10 maximum for replacement capacitors or $100 for a replacement power supply?
Unfortunately, being capable and willing seem to be two different things. It looks like there is some sort of credit for a returned bad PS. At least it saved me the cost of first trying to replace the HD...
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:30 PM   #45
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Tivo S3 Rebooting cycle

I recently had the same problem after one of my CableCard failed and I had Comcast replace it and the other (working) one with a pair of M-Cards. I worked OK for about 2 weeks and then started the reboot cycle.

My solution has been to remove one of the CableCards (top) and it then restarts OK. This does mean that I cannot use the dual record capability but at least it is working.

I might see if I can get more replacement cards and possibly revert back to the old S-Cards (single direction) since the TIVO 3 does not support dual direction or full multi-cards anyway (even though the IVO HD does).

Not a great solution but at least I'm operational again.

Now if TIVO could show the love for the original HD flagship that we all spent "large" good money on and allow it to support M-cards and possibly the new HD menus it would be appreciated.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:02 PM   #46
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Unfortunately, being capable and willing seem to be two different things. It looks like there is some sort of credit for a returned bad PS. At least it saved me the cost of first trying to replace the HD...
What a bunch of jerks!

Would it have killed them to tell you how to do it, where to pick up the caps, and loaned you a soldering gun?

My mom was born right after Coolidge succeeded Harding and I could walk her through it.
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:04 PM   #47
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I recently had the same problem after one of my CableCard failed and I had Comcast replace it and the other (working) one with a pair of M-Cards. I worked OK for about 2 weeks and then started the reboot cycle.

My solution has been to remove one of the CableCards (top) and it then restarts OK. This does mean that I cannot use the dual record capability but at least it is working.

I might see if I can get more replacement cards and possibly revert back to the old S-Cards (single direction) since the TIVO 3 does not support dual direction or full multi-cards anyway (even though the IVO HD does).

Not a great solution but at least I'm operational again.

Now if TIVO could show the love for the original HD flagship that we all spent "large" good money on and allow it to support M-cards and possibly the new HD menus it would be appreciated.
Suspect your power supply, since the extra power draw of a second card seems to be what pushes it over the edge.
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:40 PM   #48
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Replaced all caps, still won't boot!

Original Series 3, no upgrades. Week before last, it froze and a reboot fixed it. It froze again a couple days later, and this time it stopped on the first powering up message. I suspected the hard drive but found this thread, and looked at the caps and saw one that had a domed top. I ordered a full set from from Digikey after cross comparing mine with the list in a earlier message in this thread. I replaced only the obviously bad cap, and it still didn't boot. I put a meter on the various wires on the plug that is normally connected to the motherboard.
Orange was about +3.3V
Red was about +5.2V
Yellow was about 7-8V instead of +12V (Meter is a cheapo so not super accurate) I assumed there must be another cap gone so replaced the remaining ones. After that I still only show 7-8 volts on the connector to the motherboard. I then tested the yellow wire that goes to the hard drive by touching it where it's soldered to the power supply board. I shows +12V.

I'm confused and open to all suggestions and advice.

TODO: test the hard drive with the WD Diagnostics, and after a post today, try booting it without the cable cards. Will update when I have more.
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:26 PM   #49
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Original Series 3, no upgrades. Week before last, it froze and a reboot fixed it. It froze again a couple days later, and this time it stopped on the first powering up message. I suspected the hard drive but found this thread, and looked at the caps and saw one that had a domed top. I ordered a full set from from Digikey after cross comparing mine with the list in a earlier message in this thread. I replaced only the obviously bad cap, and it still didn't boot. I put a meter on the various wires on the plug that is normally connected to the motherboard.
Orange was about +3.3V
Red was about +5.2V
Yellow was about 7-8V instead of +12V (Meter is a cheapo so not super accurate) I assumed there must be another cap gone so replaced the remaining ones. After that I still only show 7-8 volts on the connector to the motherboard. I then tested the yellow wire that goes to the hard drive by touching it where it's soldered to the power supply board. I shows +12V.

I'm confused and open to all suggestions and advice.

TODO: test the hard drive with the WD Diagnostics, and after a post today, try booting it without the cable cards. Will update when I have more.
If you're getting +12V at the yellow wire at the power supply, but only 7 or 8 at the yellow wire where it plugs into the motherboard, something's big time weird.

Pull the power supply, find where the yellow wire to the drive attaches and where the yellow wire to the motherboard attaches. Look at the bottom of the PS board. Those two wires should be attached to the same copper "land". If not, find something that connects those two connection points. I'm sure this thing must have only one +12V output rail.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:04 PM   #50
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If you're getting +12V at the yellow wire at the power supply, but only 7 or 8 at the yellow wire where it plugs into the motherboard, something's big time weird.

Pull the power supply, find where the yellow wire to the drive attaches and where the yellow wire to the motherboard attaches. Look at the bottom of the PS board. Those two wires should be attached to the same copper "land". If not, find something that connects those two connection points. I'm sure this thing must have only one +12V output rail.
Apparently I'm an idiot, and your correct, I'm getting +12V on all the yellow wires.

Turned my attention to the hard drive...I felt it when powering up and felt no vibration or clicks. I connected it to my desktop and it won't even spin up.
Looks like I need to go over the drive replacement FAQ. Since I don't have the original drive to clone, I'm going to need an image or InstantCake.

I had purchased a 1TB drive from Staples when the Tivo first went down that I can still return. I also have a new 400gb drive, from a Staples Black Friday deal three years ago. If I put in the 400 gb drive now, can I upgrade later to a 1TB drive? If so, I many return the 1TB and wait for prices to come down again.
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:57 AM   #51
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Apparently I'm an idiot, and your correct, I'm getting +12V on all the yellow wires.

Turned my attention to the hard drive...I felt it when powering up and felt no vibration or clicks. I connected it to my desktop and it won't even spin up.
Looks like I need to go over the drive replacement FAQ. Since I don't have the original drive to clone, I'm going to need an image or InstantCake.

I had purchased a 1TB drive from Staples when the Tivo first went down that I can still return. I also have a new 400gb drive, from a Staples Black Friday deal three years ago. If I put in the 400 gb drive now, can I upgrade later to a 1TB drive? If so, I many return the 1TB and wait for prices to come down again.
What's the brand and model number of that 400GB?

What's the brand and model number of that 1TB? How much did you pay for it? Do you have a Best Buy around there, or anyone else who sells hard drives? (I'm not dissing Staples here)

If that 400GB is SATA and doesn't have anything on it that needs saving, boot your TiVo without a drive attached and measure voltages, then attach the 400 and measure again.

It won't get beyond the welcome screen either way, but that doesn't matter for a voltage test.


For future reference, here's your image

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...60#post8921060
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Old 01-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #52
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What's the brand and model number of that 400GB?

What's the brand and model number of that 1TB? How much did you pay for it? Do you have a Best Buy around there, or anyone else who sells hard drives? (I'm not dissing Staples here)

If that 400GB is SATA and doesn't have anything on it that needs saving, boot your TiVo without a drive attached and measure voltages, then attach the 400 and measure again.

It won't get beyond the welcome screen either way, but that doesn't matter for a voltage test.


For future reference, here's your image

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...60#post8921060
The 1TB is a Seagate Barracuda and was $139 but I had $45 in Staples Rewards. Best Buy was the same price but OOS.

The 400 is a WD Caviar SE SATA and is still new in the box. I checked the SN and it's no longer in warranty.
I'll download the image tonight.
THANKS!

--=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=--2/01 12:10 AM.

I downloaded the image and imaged the 400gb drive. The system booted up fine. After Guided Setup I realized I had forgot to do clear and delete, so it's doing that now. Thanks to all for the assistance.
When it rains it pours, our power went out today and my SD-H400 is stuck on powering up. I've shut it down and restarted a several times. Guess I'll rip it open tomorrow.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:18 PM   #53
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I had restart "Welcome - Powering Up..." looping issue just this week and i didn't go though the voltmeter checking but the capacitors look good. Here's the kicker, removed Cable cards and it booted right up! WTH.

Turned out i can't boot the unit with both CC units plugged in. Plugged in Card 1 (bottom), booted up and waited for Tivo to show CC slot 2 empty screen, then plugged another one in, reboot and all is well.

Anyway, It's possible that the power unit is bad, can't supply enough juice on boot-up for both CC, just guessing.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:17 PM   #54
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I had restart "Welcome - Powering Up..." looping issue just this week and i didn't go though the voltmeter checking but the capacitors look good. Here's the kicker, removed Cable cards and it booted right up! WTH.

Turned out i can't boot the unit with both CC units plugged in. Plugged in Card 1 (bottom), booted up and waited for Tivo to show CC slot 2 empty screen, then plugged another one in, reboot and all is well.

Anyway, It's possible that the power unit is bad, can't supply enough juice on boot-up for both CC, just guessing.
Not a bad guess, actually.

Get the voltmeter out. If you see a serious change in the 12V or 5V readings when you put a cable card in after the TiVo is already running, that means your power supply can't quite cut it anymore, and most likely it's one or more bad capacitors, regardless of how good they look.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:00 PM   #55
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Just want to thank you all. My TCD658000 Tivo was stuck in the 'Welcome...' loop. After reading the posts in this thread, ran diagnosis tests on hard drives, they were good. Capacitors on power supply looked OK (all flat tops), yet power supply output voltage on yellow wire was 6.5 volts or so. Power supply appears to be the culprit, so I ordered a new power supply today from weaknees.

Tivo users helping Tivo users works! Tivo corporate support, which I have tried in the past, does not!
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:19 PM   #56
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Not a bad guess, actually.

Get the voltmeter out. If you see a serious change in the 12V or 5V readings when you put a cable card in after the TiVo is already running, that means your power supply can't quite cut it anymore, and most likely it's one or more bad capacitors, regardless of how good they look.
The caps aren't looking too flat from an angle, I went ahead replaced both the 6.3V 2200uf and one 25V 2200uf caps and now it booted up with both CC in.

Just in case anyone in Dallas area looking for Tivo s3 replacement caps, try Tanner Electronics at Carrollton. They got some Nichicon and Rubycon cheaper than online.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #57
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mpthompson: Thank you.

I made the exact order as mpthompson stated. I only changed 4 capacitors as they obviously went bad but ordered all the capacitors just in case. only a few bucks...

swapped out the capacitors, screwed everything back together, had my Tivo 3 up and running in 30 min.

One thing I noticed. The solder on the board was pretty cold/hard. I started with my fine soldering iron (12 watt), didn't melt the solder. Went to another iron(15 watt), no luck. Switched to my last soldering iron (23 watts) and was successful.

I was about to buy a new Tivo but you guys saved me a ton of money.


Thanks again,

Stile

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Old 05-17-2012, 01:16 AM   #58
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...Turning my attention to the power supply I measured the 12 volt line at just under 7 volts and the 5 volt line is just under 4.7 volts. The bad 12 volt would seem to explain why the Tivo no longer can communicate with the hard drive. Also, with the case off I could hear a faint "clicking" sound coming the power supply. Closer inspection revealed a number of the capacitors are swollen so I'm now assuming the power supply is the source of my problems....
My DirecTV Hughes SD-DVR40 is stuck on the grey "Welcome. Powering Up.." screen. I checked the voltage of the power supply and got 10.70 dcv from the yellow wire and 5.20 dcv from the red wire. Would this be the cause of my problem or has the hard drive bitten the dust? Several of the capicitors on the PSU are bulging (rounded tops). I'd like to get several recorded shows off this dvr before I upgrade or switch services.

Saw a couple of Tivos on Craigslist but wonder how much effort I should go to if the hard drive is fried.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:24 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmariachi View Post
My DirecTV Hughes SD-DVR40 is stuck on the grey "Welcome. Powering Up.." screen. I checked the voltage of the power supply and got 10.70 dcv from the yellow wire and 5.20 dcv from the red wire. Would this be the cause of my problem or has the hard drive bitten the dust? Several of the capicitors on the PSU are bulging (rounded tops). I'd like to get several recorded shows off this dvr before I upgrade or switch services.

Saw a couple of Tivos on Craigslist but wonder how much effort I should go to if the hard drive is fried.

Thanks in advance for any help.
yellow is supposed to be 12.0 and red is supposed to be 5.0.

It can be maybe 0.1 V higher or lower with no problems.

There might be a little trimmer potentiometer on the power supply board to make voltage level adjustments with, but if you haven't already spotted it and figured that that was what it was, you don't know enough to mess with it.

Above all, don't try to adjust the supply until and unless those bad caps are replaced, or you might let out the magic smoke.

You can replace the caps (cheap) or the power supply (expensive)

Check some local repair shops and see if they know how to replace low ESR capacitors in switching power supplies.

If you're good with a soldering iron, see if they'll sell you replacements for the bad ones. Shouldn't be more than about $2 each.

Or if you don't know which end of the soldering iron to hold see if they'll do the work for you for from $10 to $30.

Right now you probably aren't getting enough "ooomph" to spin up the hard drive.

You could maybe get a shop to do the replacement and then have them put it back in the TiVo, boot it up, and check to see if the voltage trim pot needs tweaking.

Look for a shop with a good attitude.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:14 PM   #60
elmariachi
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
yellow is supposed to be 12.0 and red is supposed to be 5.0.

It can be maybe 0.1 V higher or lower with no problems.

There might be a little trimmer potentiometer on the power supply board to make voltage level adjustments with, but if you haven't already spotted it and figured that that was what it was, you don't know enough to mess with it.

Above all, don't try to adjust the supply until and unless those bad caps are replaced, or you might let out the magic smoke.

You can replace the caps (cheap) or the power supply (expensive)

Check some local repair shops and see if they know how to replace low ESR capacitors in switching power supplies.

If you're good with a soldering iron, see if they'll sell you replacements for the bad ones. Shouldn't be more than about $2 each.

Or if you don't know which end of the soldering iron to hold see if they'll do the work for you for from $10 to $30.

Right now you probably aren't getting enough "ooomph" to spin up the hard drive.

You could maybe get a shop to do the replacement and then have them put it back in the TiVo, boot it up, and check to see if the voltage trim pot needs tweaking.

Look for a shop with a good attitude.

Thanks for the reply!!! I can pick-up a "working" unit in my area for about the same prices you quoted for parts and/or labor. I was thinking of just swapping out the PSU, getting what I need off the DVR, and then moving-on to an upgrade or switching services.

I like what i've read about upgrading the hard drive, but the more I read the more confusing it gets. I'm sure it's pretty straight forward, but their doesn't seem to be one source that has a step-by-step outline for a n00b like me.
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